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Surf Gates or Tabs for an older Sunscape


02Mali23lsv

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02Mali23lsv

I have a 2002 Malibu 23 lsv Sunscape. Currently I have surf gates mounted to the rear of the boat very similar to factory surf gates. I run with the wedge down, wake makers 850’s in the rear lockers and 300 in the center locker along with a 300 in the walkway to the bow. The wave is pretty good. My problem is the wave isn’t clean. 
 

has anyone had experience running surf/trim tabs instead of gates on a diamond hull? I have reached out to Rob with evolution/infinity and he has been helpful but I haven’t seen anyone pics or videos of them on a diamond hull. Pat of the issue IMO surfing with the diamond hull is the lip on the back of the boat that helps lift the back end up for skiing to make a smaller wake. I know I’m trying to make an old dog new tricks. 

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any pics of the wake?  i've built my own surfgates for two different boats i've owned, and any "dirtiness" in the wake is usually related to the surf-side (stowed) gate dragging in the water.  you can move them up a little, shorten them, make them stow in farther, or angle the bottom of them up to make less of a scar in the surf-side wake.  or a combination of all of these.

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02Mali23lsv
1 hour ago, jtryon said:

any pics of the wake?  i've built my own surfgates for two different boats i've owned, and any "dirtiness" in the wake is usually related to the surf-side (stowed) gate dragging in the water.  you can move them up a little, shorten them, make them stow in farther, or angle the bottom of them up to make less of a scar in the surf-side wake.  or a combination of all of these.

I think I have that problem as well with my surf side gate. Here are some videos. https://photos.app.goo.gl/GUc66REegPCe9dju7

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Hard to tell from the video but with my old DIY gate I would have it just below the surface of the water and lean the boat to the surfside to clean it up(I still lean my newer surf gate boat) If you can see down at the gate area while underway you should be able to follow the water that is causing the issue and correct it. 

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I have the exact same model as you.  I run without the wedge.  When I used my old "gate" it looked exactly like yours.  I now use a Nauticurl and run it about 2 feet or so forward of the transom and with the front pointed down slightly, so that the get is vertical when at surfing speed (bow rise.)  See if you can borrow one from someone and see if it helps. 

 

 

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02Mali23lsv
1 hour ago, formulaben said:

I have the exact same model as you.  I run without the wedge.  When I used my old "gate" it looked exactly like yours.  I now use a Nauticurl and run it about 2 feet or so forward of the transom and with the front pointed down slightly, so that the get is vertical when at surfing speed (bow rise.)  See if you can borrow one from someone and see if it helps. 

 

 

I forgot to mention that these pics/videos I also have a wakesurf edge from liquid force 1-2ft from the transom. So I really have a surf gate and a suck gate. I haven’t messed with the wedge much it’s always down when surfing. I could try it without the wedge. 

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02Mali23lsv
1 hour ago, vanamp said:

Hard to tell from the video but with my old DIY gate I would have it just below the surface of the water and lean the boat to the surfside to clean it up(I still lean my newer surf gate boat) If you can see down at the gate area while underway you should be able to follow the water that is causing the issue and correct it. 

With those 850’s full or mostly full my gates are well below the waterline. I would say 2-4 inches under not moving. It’s interesting you said to list the boat I have been told with gates you really should be balanced. Typically both rears are full and we have everyone on the surf side 

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6 hours ago, 02Mali23lsv said:

With those 850’s full or mostly full my gates are well below the waterline. I would say 2-4 inches under not moving. It’s interesting you said to list the boat I have been told with gates you really should be balanced. Typically both rears are full and we have everyone on the surf side 

The marketing of surf gate is you can surf a level boat which is true to a point but if your looking to improve the wave then you will want to lean it to the surf side.  You don't need a ton of lean but enough to feel it when underway. 

Gate should be just below the surface and weight on the surf side will help raise them up.  If they are too far under the water goes over the top and adds wash to the lip of your wave. 

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6 hours ago, 02Mali23lsv said:

I forgot to mention that these pics/videos I also have a wakesurf edge from liquid force 1-2ft from the transom. So I really have a surf gate and a suck gate. I haven’t messed with the wedge much it’s always down when surfing. I could try it without the wedge. 

If you have a lot of weight try not using the wedge.  I have power wedge and don't use it because we prefer the consistency and gas savings we get with a heavy boat. 

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02Mali23lsv

I’ll have to mess with the wedge some. does having the wedge up help turning? Would surf tabs be a better option on this boat? The major thing I hate about having both a suck gate and surf gate is the inability to turn to pick up a downed surfer. Yes I can pull in my surf gate but not the suck gate.
 

Back to my original question. I still wonder if the step on the back of my hull is making the wave like this. My though process with the tab is the water would have a smooth transition if that makes sense. 

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3 hours ago, 02Mali23lsv said:

I’ll have to mess with the wedge some. does having the wedge up help turning? Would surf tabs be a better option on this boat? The major thing I hate about having both a suck gate and surf gate is the inability to turn to pick up a downed surfer. Yes I can pull in my surf gate but not the suck gate.
 

Back to my original question. I still wonder if the step on the back of my hull is making the wave like this. My though process with the tab is the water would have a smooth transition if that makes sense. 

Wedge up does not help the steering. The step in the hull could be an issue.  It's always tough to predict how tabs will work on different hulls. Snoop around google and youtube to see if you can  find some one with your hull who has been a guinea pig for a tab system.  Also wake garage has a ton of good gate and tab projects that have been done. 

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from the videos it looks like you have a lot of prop wash that is contributing to the problem as well, and that could be due to the wedge.  you could try to install a "duffy surf flap" (google it) on the end of your platform to knock the wash down.  second, the pics of the surfgate look like it needs to be angled up when stowed, so that's probably also contributing.  i would also try to lean the boat slightly to the surf side and see if that helps--usually i will run a few hundred pounds more on the surf side to clean up the wake.

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02Mali23lsv
1 hour ago, jtryon said:

from the videos it looks like you have a lot of prop wash that is contributing to the problem as well, and that could be due to the wedge.  you could try to install a "duffy surf flap" (google it) on the end of your platform to knock the wash down.  second, the pics of the surfgate look like it needs to be angled up when stowed, so that's probably also contributing.  i would also try to lean the boat slightly to the surf side and see if that helps--usually i will run a few hundred pounds more on the surf side to clean up the wake.

I agree with the prop wash comments thanks for offering the Duffy flap idea. I haven’t ever seen that before. Do you think if I had ask adjustable wedge that prop wash would mellow out at all? I have a buddy that thinks we can fabricate something to be able to adjust it. If so how many clicks from the bottom would you think?

I’ll see if I can find a better pic of the surf gate stowed when the swim deck is on. The one I have is with it off since I have to pull the deck to fit in the garage. 

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