Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Winterization Troubles


Recommended Posts

Just looking for a little input on my plan. First inboard boat, 96 Sunsetter LX with the Indmar Monsoon 320. I don't think the previous owner winterized the boat via draining, probably had a garage or used antifreeze. I don't have those luxuries. We're in South Carolina so it never gets that cold, but it does freeze. 

Pulled the boat out of the water for the year. Everything was going well until I went to drain the water from the engine. Left side of engine, no issues, pulled the block drain and manifold drain. The manifold drain was very tight, but did come out. 

Right side of engine, the knock sensor is really stuck and I didn't want to kill it. What's the proper tooling to pull one of these? I was using a channel locks with a rag wrapped around it, didn't budge. 

Second problem, manifold plug was stuck, stuck badly. I stripped out the square drive on the plug, never seen that before. But sucker is still stuck. 

Anyway, my plan: use a pipe extractor on the manifold plug, when that inevitably fails, hammer an allen/torx socket into it, when that fails, drill the sucker and drain it. This solves my short term problem of water, but makes it a bit harder to repair, but I have all winter to actually repair it. 

On the knock sensor, I guess the smart play is to get it out, even at the expense of destroying it. Any tips before it gets that far? 

Thanks all. 

Link to post
14 minutes ago, Chaabo said:

Why go through all that trouble and risk doing more damage?
Put plugs back in, run antifreeze through it and call it a day.

I'm in a somewhat awkward situation. Where I store the boat doesn't have water so I'd have to drag the boat home, what complicates this is I don't own a truck, moving the boat requires renting/borrowing one. 

It's cheaper for me to replace the knock sensor than it is to drag the thing home and back in gas alone. I wish I would have done it that way to start, should have pulled the boat yesterday, drug it home, winterized it, then ran it back out to the storage unit today. Oh well, can't do it now, no truck anymore. 

 

Link to post
16 minutes ago, SkiPablo said:

you should try a product like PB Blaster and let it sit for a few hours.

Yea, I'll bring some with me when I go back this week. I only had fluid film with me It's not a good penetrant, I didn't bring many tools, just what I had in the boat. 

Link to post
2 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Replaced both at oriellys auto parts for less than $40

Yea, that's why I'm not that bothered right now, the bigger goal is to get the damn things out before the weekend and the low temps that are projected. 

Link to post

if you can't get that manifold plug out dump some  -100 stuff in the hose that feeds it - that is why my neighbor does on his 1989 boat in the hopes to at least get some protection in there.  I would love to see the block drain plug/knock sensor come out for sure b/c that is a more expensive repair if block freezes.     I would try rocking the plug lightly both directions - sometimes that will allow it to free up. 

Link to post
54 minutes ago, justgary said:

Do you have a crossover hose with a garden thread that you can use to dump the manifolds?  It should be in the back, going from one manifold to the other.

I don't. Apparently that was a later model addition. I've been looking at just adding ball valves to the back of the manifolds, for $30 I can make this a tool-free operation. 

Link to post
1 hour ago, SkiPablo said:

if you can't get that manifold plug out dump some  -100 stuff in the hose that feeds it - that is why my neighbor does on his 1989 boat in the hopes to at least get some protection in there.  I would love to see the block drain plug/knock sensor come out for sure b/c that is a more expensive repair if block freezes.     I would try rocking the plug lightly both directions - sometimes that will allow it to free up. 

I thought about doing this. I can pull the hose easily enough, I can even get my suction gun in there and pull out the majority of the water and then fill it with antifreeze. Would be plenty of protection here in South Carolina. 

I'm going to head back with more tools on Wednesday, I'd really prefer to just get the water out, chase the threads, and reseal. If I cannot, I'll get as much antifreeze in there as I can.

I share your feelings about the block drain knock sensor, that sucker is coming out, it may not survive, but that's a $28 dollar risk I'm willing to take. 

Link to post

Little update.

I was poking around my tool box to plan my attack. I saw my inner tie rod tool, it worked perfectly on the knock sensor. No damage at all, I'll still probably pick up a spare, but I have no reservations about reusing the old one. Highly recommend using a tie rod tool for removal if you have issues. 

Couple pictures along the way, took less than 5 minutes:

https://imgur.com/a/fF33Qb1

The manifold drain was another issue. Tried to chisel it out, but it won't budge. Soaked it with PB, heated it, hammered on it, nothing. I ended up drilling it, I'll remove the remnants with a hacksaw blade and chisel, or try a pipe nipple remover, haven't made up my mind yet, either way, water is drained for now. 

Anyone replace these with brass or stainless? Something with an external hex instead of the internal square? 

Link to post

I am surprised to see that you have to remove sensors to drain the block on a Monsoon?  My Merc 350 has brass Tees in all these locations with the blue plastic drain caps.  Once you get all these out I would definitely go this route.  The plastic caps never have issues except the o-rings deteriorating after many years.  But that's a super cheap replacement.

Link to post
1 hour ago, solorex said:

I am surprised to see that you have to remove sensors to drain the block on a Monsoon?  My Merc 350 has brass Tees in all these locations with the blue plastic drain caps.  Once you get all these out I would definitely go this route.  The plastic caps never have issues except the o-rings deteriorating after many years.  But that's a super cheap replacement.

tees don't work with knock sensors, at least according to Indmar.  Plus pulling the knock sensors isn't rocket surgery.

Link to post
23 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

tees don't work with knock sensors, at least according to Indmar.  Plus pulling the knock sensors isn't rocket surgery.

yeah good point... you're right I don't have a knock sensor on mine that does need to be direct to block.

Link to post

My boat doesn't have a knock sensor (LCR), but I'm told that a 3/4" socket should work on the sensor once the wire connector is removed.

Too late for you to try now, but a set of these has helped me out of a tight spot on several occasions:  Irwin bolt extractor set

Edited by srab
Link to post
On 11/26/2020 at 7:37 AM, mexicoke said:

Little update.

I was poking around my tool box to plan my attack. I saw my inner tie rod tool, it worked perfectly on the knock sensor. No damage at all, I'll still probably pick up a spare, but I have no reservations about reusing the old one. Highly recommend using a tie rod tool for removal if you have issues. 

Couple pictures along the way, took less than 5 minutes:

https://imgur.com/a/fF33Qb1

The manifold drain was another issue. Tried to chisel it out, but it won't budge. Soaked it with PB, heated it, hammered on it, nothing. I ended up drilling it, I'll remove the remnants with a hacksaw blade and chisel, or try a pipe nipple remover, haven't made up my mind yet, either way, water is drained for now. 

Anyone replace these with brass or stainless? Something with an external hex instead of the internal square? 

Yes, I use a brass plug with a four sided headed. Purchased at Homedepot. I also coat it with anti-seize.  

Link to post
53 minutes ago, electricjohn said:

Won't a 7/8" socket fit the O2 sensor? As for the manifold, pb blaster and heat.

Yea, it does. The issue is that the sensor is 2 parts and the part with the hex is just crimped to the body, the crimp was starting to slip and rotate. With the tie rod tool I was able to just grab the body and easily twist it out. 

On the manifold, now that it's drained, I can really get some heat into it. Probably going to use a pipe nipple extractor, I need to order one though. I don't have one that size. 

Link to post
4 hours ago, srab said:

My boat doesn't have a knock sensor (LCR), but I'm told that a 3/4" socket should work on the sensor once the wire connector is removed.

Too late for you to try now, but a set of these has helped me out of a tight spot on several occasions:  Irwin bolt extractor set

I have a set of those extractors, unfortunately I need a male extractor for the manifold and it's a size I don't have. $24 on McMaster/MSC will solve that problem. 

Link to post
46 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

IRWIN Screw Extractor Set, Hex Head, Multi-Spline, 25-Piece (53227) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002SRG66/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabt1_hmAWFb689M26X

I have this kit. It works pretty well 

I saw those Irwins, I have their stripped nut removers and like those, that kit is tempting. Right now I'm leaning to these: https://www.waltontools.com/products/reps-charts.htm they seem to be very chunky, I kinda like that. The price obviously reflects that though.  

I know it's crazy, but I'd just much rather drill and tap than break off an extractor and have to deal with it. Even if it involves a heilcoil/timesert I'd rather just do that over even attempting an extractor. I'm also a big fan of left hand drill bits, Unfortunately I don't have those option here. 

I keep going back to just using a hack saw blade to section and remove the plug remnants with a chisel. It's a tight space so it would be pretty slow going, but I have all the tools and there's no risk. I'll stew on it for a few weeks, the boat is stored about an hour away otherwise probably I'd be out there right now with a hacksaw or carbide burr and die grinder. 

 

 

Link to post
  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, one final update.

So let's get this out

0LdNVmh.jpg

I attempted to use a Walton #10

DjymKRQ.jpg

Holy hell this is a tough extractor. 

3bcnJ7V.jpg

Yes, I broke 2 wrenches trying to turn the extractor. 3/4" and 19mm both snapped. Yes, they are cheap Harbor Freight, but when using a 3ft pipe, I didn't want to use my nice tools. That extractor is no joke, but that plug is seized solid. 

eha0MkL.jpg

Drilled.

C93v9Z8.jpg

 

dYT2EIA.jpg

Cut flush.

4Jq1bgR.jpg

Tapped.

Vh3oTBX.jpg

Fixed. 

 

So yes, I just directly tapped for new threads into the old plug body. I'm not worried about it.

I could take my time and cut the old plug out, chisel out the old plug, then chase the threads. I'm not going to. Good enough

Edited by mexicoke
  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...