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2021 25LSV vs. M220 - advice?


SkiSurfFam

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On 10/21/2020 at 1:40 PM, amartin said:

On the comparison topic, how do the modern 25's compare with the 2013 era 247 hulls.  Obviously there isn't a ton of length / space to be gained by only going 6" longer, but I am curious about the performance differences.  We are on a big lake that gets pretty rough - all relative, but to the point that I sometimes have to go surf speeds to cross open water to reach protected / smooth waters.  We are by no where near experts behind the boat and while I sure it would be better, I don't know how much we would appreciate the likely wave improvements over our current boat.

I came from a 21lsv. To my 2019 25LSV. We can get wind that easily can turn into 18” wind chop. The 25LSV takes it easily at 20mph.  There is a 247 that has been showing up quite a bit this year. The main difference that i see is the gunnel depth. Mine is quite a bit deeper. I feel that that would also help with the “comfort level” on rough water. 

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:09 PM, Slurpee said:

I've a decent bit of time in the 23LSV.  The 25LSV obviously rides better in rough chop.  How much better is hard to measure or explain since what are you going to compare it to?  Or what are you going to measure it with?  Is the 23LSV really close to what you want comfort wise already?  Or a long way off?  I really like the 23LSV.  It's a sweet spot for a reason. I'll say that I got the okay from the CFO when we went for a ride in our neighbor's son's 25LSV and the wife drove it through the weekend waves with a much more comfortable thump cross rollers than the normal slam of our 22LSV.

I'll tell you what the 25LSV does NOT do well though.  It doesn't put out a clean wakeboard wake for kids to learn on.  My 22 had a crisp set of wakes with no wash at 16-20mph with the wedge in lift.  Maybe the rear port tank about 25% full.  You can't duplicate that in the 25LSV.  Happily my boy has progressed to being comfortable at 20+ mph and that's where you can start to get nice wakes again with a 25LSV.  That is my only criticism, and I think it's just a losing battle with physics.  I get mine back from the canvas shop tomorrow with a new over the tower cover.  Can't wait to get it back!!!

Interesting that you made the same transition as well. 
 

I’ll be taking one for a test ride in a few weeks but I’m curious how it does at 10-12mph with a bit of wedge and 25% ballast. It’s a good speed for our 4.5 and 3yo on the HO Fads because at 70’ they can actually catch a wave in the 2nd trough back. 
 

Id assume it’s pretty good since that’s surf speed but I’ll have to check the 18-20mph for beginning wakeboarders

 

 

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17 minutes ago, BarliBear said:

Interesting that you made the same transition as well. 
 

I’ll be taking one for a test ride in a few weeks but I’m curious how it does at 10-12mph with a bit of wedge and 25% ballast. It’s a good speed for our 4.5 and 3yo on the HO Fads because at 70’ they can actually catch a wave in the 2nd trough back. 
 

Id assume it’s pretty good since that’s surf speed but I’ll have to check the 18-20mph for beginning wakeboarders

 

 

Here’s pictures of both those. Surfing here was front and middle full and rear about 25% with a tad of wedge at 10.9mph. Wakeboarding was almost empty ballast in lift mode (about 25% in port locker to level out) at 19mph. 

5C396CB7-BBF7-41D9-9AE1-AEC4DC916C59.jpeg

0C9BBA2F-46B3-4A81-943C-D0EB9CD7DE92.png

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On 10/26/2020 at 6:17 PM, Slurpee said:

Here’s pictures of both those. Surfing here was front and middle full and rear about 25% with a tad of wedge at 10.9mph. Wakeboarding was almost empty ballast in lift mode (about 25% in port locker to level out) at 19mph. 

5C396CB7-BBF7-41D9-9AE1-AEC4DC916C59.jpeg

0C9BBA2F-46B3-4A81-943C-D0EB9CD7DE92.png

That wakeboard wake looks pretty clean especially with the wedge in lift mode. I understand you don’t have to counter-steer nearly as much as you do with the 22’

How does it maneuver when docking? I’ve heard that it actually handles better than the 23’

On our river side dock, we pull into a u-shaped slip who’s opening runs parallel with but is slightly skewed towards the shore. So that means I have to get past our neighbors dock, nose in towards shore on the port side,  then kick the stern over to the port side to line up for docking on the starboard. IT can get pretty tricky when the wind and current are kicking up behind us. Make the window to get into position for docking really small and the 22 handles like a pig. 

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33 minutes ago, BarliBear said:

That wakeboard wake looks pretty clean especially with the wedge in lift mode. I understand you don’t have to counter-steer nearly as much as you do with the 22’

How does it maneuver when docking? I’ve heard that it actually handles better than the 23’

On our river side dock, we pull into a u-shaped slip who’s opening runs parallel with but is slightly skewed towards the shore. So that means I have to get past our neighbors dock, nose in towards shore on the port side,  then kick the stern over to the port side to line up for docking on the starboard. IT can get pretty tricky when the wind and current are kicking up behind us. Make the window to get into position for docking really small and the 22 handles like a pig. 

I don't counter steer at all.  

It definitely tracks straighter at low speeds than my 22 did at docking speeds.  And doesn't kick right as easily with a bump of reverse.  It's 3' longer though so that makes sense.  The turns are a fair bit wider as well it feels like.  Or maybe it's the extra 3' of length making it feel that way.  But I'd be thinking of a thruster if I had to hit that kind of dock all the time in a river with the wind up.  I usually have a cross wind with a straight approach into my slip and unless I just am not paying attention I can usually hit it center fine.  The bimini is like a sail though.  If you don't run with it up when docking that'd help out.

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On 10/21/2020 at 8:29 AM, Chattwake said:

I town my 25 with an F150 Raptor.   It's not ideal, but it does fine going back and forth from the lake.

I tow my 25 LSV (no lead, still overweight) with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with HEMI V8 locally. Never felt underpowered or had an issue braking... :blush:

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On 10/28/2020 at 1:46 PM, Slurpee said:

I don't counter steer at all.  

It definitely tracks straighter at low speeds than my 22 did at docking speeds.  And doesn't kick right as easily with a bump of reverse.  It's 3' longer though so that makes sense.  The turns are a fair bit wider as well it feels like.  Or maybe it's the extra 3' of length making it feel that way.  But I'd be thinking of a thruster if I had to hit that kind of dock all the time in a river with the wind up.  I usually have a cross wind with a straight approach into my slip and unless I just am not paying attention I can usually hit it center fine.  The bimini is like a sail though.  If you don't run with it up when docking that'd help out.

Appreciate that. Actually just got off the phone with my sales rep and asked about stern turn. He said he normally doesn’t advocate for it but in my scenario he would definitely support it. 

 

No need for counter steering during surfing is interesting. As I’m sure you experienced, we probably use about 60% of available steering to keep the boat straight. 

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1 hour ago, BarliBear said:

Appreciate that. Actually just got off the phone with my sales rep and asked about stern turn. He said he normally doesn’t advocate for it but in my scenario he would definitely support it. 

 

No need for counter steering during surfing is interesting. As I’m sure you experienced, we probably use about 60% of available steering to keep the boat straight. 

I should probably explain what I meant. I can let go of the steering wheel and it doesn’t immediately snap into a donut turn. It’ll get there by a 10 count or more. To me it feels like easy hydraulic steering. I’ve got to get the wheel in the right spot for normal or goofy going straight and then just keep a hand on it.  No hanging on with body weight to wrestle it. It’s even easier going faster. Just a finger’s pressure. I monkeyed with the tab on the rudder a bit to fine tune that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/5/2020 at 2:48 PM, Slurpee said:

I should probably explain what I meant. I can let go of the steering wheel and it doesn’t immediately snap into a donut turn. It’ll get there by a 10 count or more. To me it feels like easy hydraulic steering. I’ve got to get the wheel in the right spot for normal or goofy going straight and then just keep a hand on it.  No hanging on with body weight to wrestle it. It’s even easier going faster. Just a finger’s pressure. I monkeyed with the tab on the rudder a bit to fine tune that. 

That’s what the section on the rudder is for? I’ve been wondering what that was. Will have to look that up

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12 hours ago, BarliBear said:

That’s what the section on the rudder is for? I’ve been wondering what that was. Will have to look that up

The initial intent with that rudder tab was for the DD boats in the slalom course.  It allowed for fine tuning of the rudder to  make it easier to keep the boat straight in the course.  Prior to the tabs we have on the rudder, grinding the frudder to get the same effect was the common solution. 

Like @Slurpee said, the tab can be adjusted on our wake boats to prevent the hard turn if you release pressure on the wheel.  With slalom skiing, you want a little pressure as it's a little easier to keep tracking in the course against the torque steer of the boat.

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/21/2020 at 6:29 AM, Chattwake said:

I town my 25 with an F150 Raptor.   It's not ideal, but it does fine going back and forth from the lake.

Bet the 25 gets better gas mileage than the raptor fully ballasted.....

  • Haha 1
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  • 2 months later...
On 11/5/2020 at 2:48 PM, Slurpee said:

I should probably explain what I meant. I can let go of the steering wheel and it doesn’t immediately snap into a donut turn. It’ll get there by a 10 count or more. To me it feels like easy hydraulic steering. I’ve got to get the wheel in the right spot for normal or goofy going straight and then just keep a hand on it.  No hanging on with body weight to wrestle it. It’s even easier going faster. Just a finger’s pressure. I monkeyed with the tab on the rudder a bit to fine tune that. 

Question for you. We ordered the 25 back in April, won’t get it until November most likely, but the dealer said the M6 is plenty enough power. Your thoughts? Would the LT$ make that big of a difference?

 

One reason I want to move from the 22LSV with the M4 is that I can tell we were maxing out all available power. 

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20 minutes ago, BarliBear said:

Question for you. We ordered the 25 back in April, won’t get it until November most likely, but the dealer said the M6 is plenty enough power. Your thoughts? Would the LT$ make that big of a difference?

 

One reason I want to move from the 22LSV with the M4 is that I can tell we were maxing out all available power. 

TONS of power in the M6. 

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