Need help!! Hurth Ski Vee V drive leaking

[kwholderman]

Our V drive is leaking we managed to get it out but are unsure how to proceed. We know it’s leaking from the prop shaft flange, we are unsure how to get to the seal that is leaking. Any ideas or better yet does anyone have a manual for the Hurth ZF 45 IV V drive they are willing to part with? This is for a 2013 247 LSV. If some one can tell me how to attach pictures I have some. 
 

[Eagleboy99]

https://www.simplicity-marine.com/pdf/ZF/Repair Manual ZF 25 A_ZF 25_ ZF 45 A_ ZF 45-1 code 310.01.00[1].pdf  Pics as a paying member or use a third party site like Imgbb, Dropbox etc.

[kwholderman]

9 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

https://www.simplicity-marine.com/pdf/ZF/Repair Manual ZF 25 A_ZF 25_ ZF 45 A_ ZF 45-1 code 310.01.00[1].pdf  Pics as a paying member or use a third party site like Imgbb, Dropbox etc.

Thank you! We did find that manual but it only covers the transmission not the V Drive. 

[Eagleboy99]

You will likely have to check with ZF.com - they do not list the 45 with a V-drive as an available configuration now.  https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/aftermarket-portal/marine/

[kdammen]

Did you have any luck finding a seal? I'm having the same issue and am looking for the seal. 

[hawaiianstyln]

I just finished this job so I figured I would share:

The output shaft seal is part# 905204 or S905204

search online for "ZF output shaft seal 905204" and you will find varying prices.  @oldjeep found one for me around $40, but i've seen these marked up all the way to $100

What nobody tells you is that you also need to replace the metric O-ring that sits on the end of the spline after flange that needs to be replaced.  I took it all over town trying to match it.  The O-ring was thicker than I could find, so I micrometer'd it out and matched this:

38MM - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GXC195V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You will need a spanner wrench to remove the V-drive flange.  They go for about $200.  no thanks, we measured the diameter and bought a socket at Mendards, then grinded down socket to form 4 teeth that will fit in the flange nut.  This part luckily we had a friend that had a nice shop that spec'd out the dimensions and let his machine do the work instead of grinding away with your typical grinding tools to form the spanner wrench teeth.

Once we removed the flange, the output shaft seal needs to be pulled.  I just used a pick tool to pry it out.

What we found out is that the shaft seal looked good but the O-ring was mangled and likely the cause of my slow leak.

I was also told by an external trusting INDMAR source, a Transmission professional, said to put black Permatex gasket maker around the spline where the O-ring seats before you put the O-ring back on.  An added layer of security. 

 

Pics notes below:

1. if you zoom in, you can see the O-ring required and you can also see how mine is mangled.
2. Micrometering the O-ring because it is thicker than I could find around town (NAPA, Autozone, etc....)
3. Flange cleaned up after wirewheel then polish.  I also took some 2,000 grit sandpaper to polish the area of where the output shaft seal sits. most likely you will see a slight wear where it sits on that flange once it is pressed back into the vdrive

Edited October 26, 2022 by hawaiianstyln

[YeloBlammo]

Great info.

Do you have pictures of your diy spanner wrench?

[hawaiianstyln]

3 hours ago, YeloBlammo said:

Great info.

Do you have pictures of your diy spanner wrench?

I'll get a pic, it is all at my buddy's house right now as we have the engine rebuild and trans/vdrive out of the boat currently

[lake4life]

@hawaiianstyln Thanks so much for posting this!  I have a similar leak and could not figure out how it was leaking because the leak appeared to come out of the end of the coupler (inside where the prop shaft goes into the middle of the coupler) rather then from around the outside of the flange where I'd expect a seal leak to happen.  Just couldn't understand how it could be leaking from there.  The O-ring makes this all make sense for me.  What do you think the chances are I'd be able to replace this O-ring without pulling the VDrive (I'm guessing not great)?  I'm assuming if I need to pull the VDrive I can just separate the VDrive from the trans and pull just the VDrive?  

BTW, if you'd be willing to sell a version of that diy socket turned spanner let me know, otherwise I guess I'll try and go at it with with a grinder.  

[hawaiianstyln]

1 hour ago, lake4life said:

@hawaiianstyln Thanks so much for posting this!  I have a similar leak and could not figure out how it was leaking because the leak appeared to come out of the end of the coupler (inside where the prop shaft goes into the middle of the coupler) rather then from around the outside of the flange where I'd expect a seal leak to happen.  Just couldn't understand how it could be leaking from there.  The O-ring makes this all make sense for me.  What do you think the chances are I'd be able to replace this O-ring without pulling the VDrive (I'm guessing not great)?  I'm assuming if I need to pull the VDrive I can just separate the VDrive from the trans and pull just the VDrive?  

BTW, if you'd be willing to sell a version of that diy socket turned spanner let me know, otherwise I guess I'll try and go at it with with a grinder.  

you mean it looked like this?   

yes that is exactly what mine was doing.  So what you need to do is just remove the trans and vdrive.  It's not super hard.  Find a good working area that is comfortable (well nothing is comfortable on the vdrive) and remove the 4 bolts on the shaft coupling to the vdrive flange and push the shaft away to get it out of the way.  be patient, remove one bolt at a time then turn the coupling/shaft to get the next bolt so you aren't having to move all around to access the 4 coupling bolts.  remove the trans mounts and maybe mark where the bolts are at unless you are just going to do an alignment after this.  Unbolt the trans from the bell housing and slide the trans off flywheel spline and lift it out.

I'm pretty sure you need to remove the trans and vdrive for this job, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I think at this point we are going to keep the DIY Spanner, but ultimately it isn't mine since my buddy bought the socket and took it to his friend's shop.

 

someone on MC teamtalk had a thread on this:

https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/forum/maintenance-tips-how-tos-and-refurbishing-topics/engine-drive-train/81292-spanner-socket-for-zf-transmission#post1990039

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by hawaiianstyln

[lake4life]

39 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

you mean it looked like this?   

yes that is exactly what mine was doing.  So what you need to do is just remove the trans and vdrive.  It's not super hard.  Find a good working area that is comfortable (well nothing is comfortable on the vdrive) and remove the 4 bolts on the shaft coupling to the vdrive flange and push the shaft away to get it out of the way.  be patient, remove one bolt at a time then turn the coupling/shaft to get the next bolt so you aren't having to move all around to access the 4 coupling bolts.  remove the trans mounts and maybe mark where the bolts are at unless you are just going to do an alignment after this.  Unbolt the trans from the bell housing and slide the trans off flywheel spline and lift it out.

I'm pretty sure you need to remove the trans and vdrive for this job, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I think at this point we are going to keep the DIY Spanner, but ultimately it isn't mine since my buddy bought the socket and took it to his friend's shop.

 

someone on MC teamtalk had a thread on this:

https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/forum/maintenance-tips-how-tos-and-refurbishing-topics/engine-drive-train/81292-spanner-socket-for-zf-transmission#post1990039

 

Thanks for the notes. Yep that is exactly where mine is leaking from. So you don’t think I could just separate the VDrive from the trans and pull just the VDrive out?  Just curious on that cause then I wouldn’t  have to mess with the mounts and be a whole lot less work pulling it out.  Just never seen/heard of someone separating them before so not sure if that is as simple as it looks on the surface.  Don’t want to end up breaking some more seals or something and causing more work.  If nobody knows then probably safer just pulling the whole transmission like you say.

[justgary]

15 hours ago, lake4life said:

Thanks for the notes. Yep that is exactly where mine is leaking from. So you don’t think I could just separate the VDrive from the trans and pull just the VDrive out?  Just curious on that cause then I wouldn’t  have to mess with the mounts and be a whole lot less work pulling it out.  Just never seen/heard of someone separating them before so not sure if that is as simple as it looks on the surface.  Don’t want to end up breaking some more seals or something and causing more work.  If nobody knows then probably safer just pulling the whole transmission like you say.

Just a few random thoughts: 

• Pulling the transmission will allow you to inspect (and possibly replace) the damper plate as well. 
• You'll have to mess with the mounts anyway to realign your running gear after you reinstall.  I wouldn't trust the alignment even if you only remove the V-drive and reinstall it. 
• Grabbing just the V-Drive to lift it may be more pesky than removing the transmission with it.

Thanks, @hawaiianstyln, for the great how-to!

[lake4life]

5 minutes ago, justgary said:

Just a few random thoughts: 

• Pulling the transmission will allow you to inspect (and possibly replace) the damper plate as well. 
• You'll have to mess with the mounts anyway to realign your running gear after you reinstall.  I wouldn't trust the alignment even if you only remove the V-drive and reinstall it. 
• Grabbing just the V-Drive to lift it may be more pesky than removing the transmission with it.

Thanks, @hawaiianstyln, for the great how-to!

All good points.

[YeloBlammo]

plus it will be way easier to replace your packing or do a dripless seal on the shaft at the same time

[lake4life]

1 hour ago, YeloBlammo said:

plus it will be way easier to replace your packing or do a dripless seal on the shaft at the same time

good point for some others that may end up having to go down this same path, but I already have a dripless.

[hawaiianstyln]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:16 PM, lake4life said:

Thanks for the notes. Yep that is exactly where mine is leaking from. So you don’t think I could just separate the VDrive from the trans and pull just the VDrive out?  Just curious on that cause then I wouldn’t  have to mess with the mounts and be a whole lot less work pulling it out.  Just never seen/heard of someone separating them before so not sure if that is as simple as it looks on the surface.  Don’t want to end up breaking some more seals or something and causing more work.  If nobody knows then probably safer just pulling the whole transmission like you say.

I'm pretty sure there is a seal between the V and trans but i'm unsure on if you can just pull the Vdrive only.  ZF was selling these as one unit (v and trans together).

[hawaiianstyln]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:13 PM, YeloBlammo said:

Great info.

Do you have pictures of your diy spanner wrench?

Sorry just now getting back to this with pics

[mrothwell]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:36 AM, hawaiianstyln said:

Sorry just now getting back to this with pics

How much would you charge to build me one of these??

[RebesMalibu]

On 11/12/2022 at 12:36 PM, hawaiianstyln said:

Sorry just now getting back to this with pics

Could you take a few measurements? What size socket is it? I wonder if this is close to the size of a standard wheel bearing spanner? 

[lake4life]

Just wanted to report back.  I was able to successfully replace the v-drive o-ring that we have been discussing without pulling the transmission.
I had enough room between the v-drive and the dripless seal to push the shaft back enough to get the spanner socket on the v-drive flange nut.
Not going to pretend it was easy, it was a huge PIA (and other parts of my body) to get it done but with patience and foul language I was able to accomplish it.  Even managed to get a
torque wrench on the nut to re-torque it (one ratchet click at a time -_-).  
So it is doable if you have the same amount of room I had to slide the shaft back. I had about 1 hair's width to spare.

Good news is no more leak!!!!  

Thanks a million to @hawaiianstyln for posting on this o-ring issue that clued me in on where the leak was likely coming from - had me baffled up to that point.

[hmh800]

I also had a leak at the output shaft of my direct drive Hurth transmission, and ground down a socket just like photos to get the nut off.  My output coupler had more of a wear groove in it at the sealing surface than I was comfortable with, so I sleeved the coupler with a speedy sleeve.  Worked great; replaced the seal and o-ring (got the parts from ZF in Florida) and reassembled.  I also replaced the input shaft seal since I had the transmission out.  They’re easy to work on.  The hardest part was modifying a socket but that wasn’t bad.

[hawaiianstyln]

5 hours ago, lake4life said:

Thanks a million to @hawaiianstyln for posting on this o-ring issue that clued me in on where the leak was likely coming from - had me baffled up to that point.

You are very welcome brother, thats is what this forum is about and thats why i pay $50 a year for the wealth of knowledge and to support this awesome forum that has been around from the beginning of times 👊👊

[mrothwell]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:48 PM, lake4life said:

I had enough room between the v-drive and the dripless seal to push the shaft back enough to get the spanner socket on the v-drive flange nut.

Where did you get the spanner socket?  I couldn't find one anywhere a couple years ago when I needed it.

[lake4life]

7 hours ago, mrothwell said:

Where did you get the spanner socket?  I couldn't find one anywhere a couple years ago when I needed it.

https://inboardonline.com/output-flange-nut-tool-996010/

I thought about grinding one out as others have done but in the end I broke down and just bought the over priced socket.

[mrothwell]

Holy crap.  Overpriced doesn't even begin to describe that thing.