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Woodski

6.2 TXI - Regina Malibu Open Comment

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Woodski

Regina Jaquess commented on the 6.2L powering the TXI she skied (victoriously, I might add) behind as having a great wake due to lots of power / torque.  I interpreted the comment as allowing Malibu to run the engine slower and she might have indicated as such. 

Looking at the AWSA allowable configurations, the TXI only is approved with either the Acme 525 or 515 or the OJ 330 with a 1:1 transmission for both engine options.  Any of those options would not allow the engine to spin any slower thus I am curious to understand what the comment relates to.  Anybody have any insight?

And of course, congrats to her on another remarkable performance.  (and if you have not seen her 39 1/2 video on You Tube from another tournament, watch it, simply unbelievable). 

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obski

I don't have anything to add regarding the engine/prop.  Regina was awesome.

During the awards ceremony she was presented with a special award - one of the bulrushes from the lake edge.  During the jump competition she got a little wide in her approach and caught a ski in the bulrushes, causing her to have a spectacular wipe out.  She, and everyone else, got a good laugh at the special award.  Pretty funny.

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ahopkinsVTX

I have no idea if this is true or not but Thomas said during the girls under 17 finals that the hull was tweaked for the new motors. Could be what Regina was referencing. Or she was just commenting on how good the wakes already are and there is finally a boat with enough power to support her pull from the finish of the turn and centerline ;)

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Woodski

Would be interesting to know what the hull tweak was.  Hopefully that gives the TXI a boost to the slalom market.

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rakr
On 9/15/2020 at 9:59 AM, Woodski said:

(and if you have not seen her 39 1/2 video on You Tube from another tournament, watch it, simply unbelievable). 

It looked like her ski was about to point “outside” the course on 3... the speed she got back into position was silly... 

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UWSkier

I know both she and Will commented on the 6.2L engine giving them crazy width.  Could always DM Chad over on BOS and ask if there were any hull tweaks on the 2020.

I'm slowly starting to come around on the looks of the TXI.  It's still nowhere nearly as good looking as the old ones, but it feels like we're starting to see more of them with non-barftastic patterns.  Couple of the 'bu Open boats were actually pretty sharp.

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Sixer
1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

I know both she and Will commented on the 6.2L engine giving them crazy width.  Could always DM Chad over on BOS and ask if there were any hull tweaks on the 2020.

I'm slowly starting to come around on the looks of the TXI.  It's still nowhere nearly as good looking as the old ones, but it feels like we're starting to see more of them with non-barftastic patterns.  Couple of the 'bu Open boats were actually pretty sharp.

I'm typically not a teal/turquoise guy but this really caught my eye today.  It does have the M6 as well........https://www.onlyinboards.com/2020-Malibu-TXi-MO-Edition-with-M6Di-engine-for-sale-St-Louis-Missouri-116210.aspx

Edited by Sixer

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braindamage

I still think they are ugly. I hope their next redesign is better...

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ahopkinsVTX
1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

I know both she and Will commented on the 6.2L engine giving them crazy width.  Could always DM Chad over on BOS and ask if there were any hull tweaks on the 2020.

I'm slowly starting to come around on the looks of the TXI.  It's still nowhere nearly as good looking as the old ones, but it feels like we're starting to see more of them with non-barftastic patterns.  Couple of the 'bu Open boats were actually pretty sharp.

Just like any boy, gotta kick the right combo of colors in the panels. I like the aggressive lines of the boat but colors have to be chosen wisely. The black and blue one was very nice. 

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Sixer
11 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Sorry man, but :vomit:

Ha!  Not saying I'd ever pull the trigger on it, I just thought the all white was sharp and the teal wasn't over-done like on some of the other boats.

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Woodski

Add some 'strawberry' and grey, don your day-glow green/yellow wet suit and pretend to be back in the 90's  :lol:

@UWSkier - good tip to get Chad's feedback, thx.  Also, interesting to hear that skiers like the power level when for years after intro of ZO, power was the nemesis for good scores!

For those that aren't familiar, Chad is one of the best slalom drivers, great Malibu representative and has a pretty interesting career.

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BSUBU_Kris

I would think the torque would make it easier to hold speed.  I know it is timed over the length of the course but an engine with less torque could require more speed adjustments to keep an average speed where lots of torque could mean the speed never changes at all.  Just a guess on my part.  I wish that was my biggest problem on the course!

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UWSkier

Wonder if the hulls were actually tweaked or if the Malibu engines being lighter were an improvement.  I spoke with Chad about that when they were testing those engines and he did mention he thought the lighter weight helped a small amount.

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Woodski

@BSUBU_Kris - correct, and it is torque through the prop so a less powerful engine coupled to a very strong prop (usually 4 blade) and a gear reduction transmission can produce similar high torque outputs.  There is always some speed change as any throttle change is reactionary.  The skier does not want a constant speed pull, some level of variation is needed to ski your best through the course for a variety of reasons.  The early version of ZO was a good example of that.  In the days of 240 hp engines, Kris / Bob Lapoint would throw a boat out of tolerance by hanging on to the rope while being dragged along the course if they fell or missed a buoy.  Those days are long gone.

@UWSkier - My experience with weight reduction agrees with Chad's comments.  I would be very surprised if the hulls were not optimized, it would be almost foolish for Malibu not to do that.  The marketing value of any record far outweighs the time and effort to tweak the hull.  No different than car companies tweaking cars for magazine reviews, happens all the time.

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tru-jack

Also interested in this.  I have not heard a good review from the skiers end of the rope on the 5.3di engines.  This is from the nautique boats, that the 5.3 doesn't seem to ski as smoothly as the 6.0, and a part of the reason the new prostar has 6.0 and no 5.3di and 6.2di for jumpers.  Wonder if the txi 5.3di has same issue?  it was described as always being a bit behind the skier, and therefore not as smooth. 

Really getting itch for new boat, to replace current 2007lxi.  Been looking hard at the new prostar, which would make me, the slalom dad in the family happy, but I'm afraid the rest of the family wouldn't be as happy.  2 teenage daughters that like to surf in afternoon, so the wedge helps a lot, and the space in the open bow is used all the time with our family, and the prostar seems cramped if not unusable in comparison.

May have talked myself into enjoying boat for another season, as it performs great, and does everything we like to do.  Hopefully I can warm up to the new version that hopefully is introduced next season.

Anyone have any insight, or 'spy' photos or news on next version of txi?

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Woodski

@tru-jack - Time to teach the kids slalom is king :biggrin:.  Do you have some insight on Malibu updating the TXI or simply a hopeful thought?

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ahopkinsVTX
8 minutes ago, tru-jack said:

Also interested in this.  I have not heard a good review from the skiers end of the rope on the 5.3di engines.  This is from the nautique boats, that the 5.3 doesn't seem to ski as smoothly as the 6.0, and a part of the reason the new prostar has 6.0 and no 5.3di and 6.2di for jumpers.  Wonder if the txi 5.3di has same issue?  it was described as always being a bit behind the skier, and therefore not as smooth. 

Really getting itch for new boat, to replace current 2007lxi.  Been looking hard at the new prostar, which would make me, the slalom dad in the family happy, but I'm afraid the rest of the family wouldn't be as happy.  2 teenage daughters that like to surf in afternoon, so the wedge helps a lot, and the space in the open bow is used all the time with our family, and the prostar seems cramped if not unusable in comparison.

May have talked myself into enjoying boat for another season, as it performs great, and does everything we like to do.  Hopefully I can warm up to the new version that hopefully is introduced next season.

Anyone have any insight, or 'spy' photos or news on next version of txi?

The Nautique hulls are known for lots and lots of drag. I would t read into those reports too much for how the 5.3 will perform in the Malibu. 
 

Also, if you are looking into the cross over, the 2020+ vtx is phenomenal. We have the 5.3 in ours and the performance is great for both skiing and surfing. It’s strong out of the hole for skiing and surfs 35-3700 rpms. Based on how it’s performing for me, I’d imagine it would be very good in the TXi too.

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tru-jack

yes slalom is king.  I try.  In fact, we've done the family trip to Cobles to slalom ski the whole week, then off to Charleston to the Malibu Open to watch how it's done.  We're north of Toronto, so it's quite the adventure, and always a great time.  Used to enjoy taking the ferry across Lake Michigan to Milwaukee for the Open, was a great venue and City.  Also try to get them enrolled at McClintocks for a week of slalom each season too.

Teenage girls... are a tough bunch to solve.  the 14 year old skis the course once or twice each spring/year, runs up from 24mph through to 30, then shortens the line, then shrugs her shoulders like its no big deal, and asks why am I so excited?  I find it easy and boring Dad.....to be 14 again...

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tru-jack

@Woodski Sorry no insight..Just hopeful, and thinking of their typical refresh/new model cycle.  

Really hope they nail it, as the new Nautique is a bit of a beast and not a beauty, and the new Prostar seems to address its previous issues.

I just need something to look forward to in a year, especially if I hang on to mine for another season.

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jjackkrash

I had a 5.3l in my 200 and thought it was a great little engine.  I've got a 6.2L in my new boat and has way more grunt than the 5.3l getting out of the hole and getting up to speed; it also runs down the course at lower RPMs.  But I don't personally believe I'm getting a smoother or harsher pull than I got with the 5.3l because of the engine.  

I've been around skiing a long time and believe skiers suffer from expectation bias just like everybody else.  If you hear and think the 5.3L is going to be harsher it probably will feel that way.  Some of the early 5.3l boats also had a Zero Off algorithm issue that has since been fixed, but the "harsh pull" label kinda stuck. 

Zero Off has 27 combinations of settings (not counting the plus setting) that change when the pull hits the skier and how long the pull hits skier to get a got segment time and then gets you near perfect times for every single split every single time.  On the new boats I personally don't believe the 5.3L/6.0L/6.2L engine could possibly impact the feel of a boat that is up to speed running down the slalom course more than going from A2 to A3 or C3+ on ZO or whatever, as long a Zero Off is functioning properly.   I still hear that claim from skiers and top pros repeated about the 5.3L, but I'll be skeptical until a skier can beat a blind test and tell me which engine is in the boat based solely on the feel of the slalom pull (and by blind test I'd control for hearing the engine RPMs).  Big jumpers who are taking all the throttle the boat has to give, ok, I probably buy that the engine makes a difference, but with Slalom and Zero Off, that's a tougher sell for me that any three of these very capable engines make a significant difference on the pull feel given how accurate Zero Off is when its programmed correctly and how easily you can change the pull feel with the press of a button.  

 

Edited by jjackkrash

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ahopkinsVTX
2 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

I had a 5.3l in my 200 and thought it was a great little engine.  I've got a 6.2L in my new boat and has way more grunt than the 5.3l getting out of the whole and getting up to speed; it also runs down the course at lower RPMs.  But I don't personally believe I'm getting a smoother or harsher pull than I got with the 5.3l because of the engine.  

I've been around skiing a long time and believe skiers suffer from expectation bias just like everybody else.  If you hear and think the 5.3L is going to be harsher it probably will feel that way.  Some of the early 5.3l boats also had a Zero Off algorithm issue that has since been fixed, but the "harsh pull" label kinda stuck. 

Zero Off has 27 combinations of settings (not counting the plus setting) that change when the pull hits the skier and how long the pull hits skier to get a got segment time and then gets you near perfect times for every single split every single time.  On the new boats I personally don't believe the 5.3L/6.0L/6.2L engine could possibly impact the feel of a boat that is up to speed running down the slalom course more than going from A2 to A3 or C3+ on ZO or whatever, as long a Zero Off is functioning properly.   I still hear that claim from skiers and top pros repeated about the 5.3L, but I'll be skeptical until a skier can beat a blind test and tell me which engine is in the boat based solely on the feel of the slalom pull (and by blind test I'd control for hearing the engine RPMs).  Big jumpers who are taking all the throttle the boat has to give, ok, I probably buy that the engine makes a difference, but with Slalom and Zero Off, that's a tougher sell for me that any three of these very capable engines make a significant difference on the pull feel given how accurate Zero Off is when its programmed correctly and how easily you can change the pull feel with the press of a button.  

 

I agree with you, but there is 27 options not counting plus settings now? Isn’t there 9? A1-3, B1-3, C1-3?

The other thing you forgot to mention is many many (almost all on BOS) will blame anything before themselves. 

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jjackkrash
11 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

I agree with you, but there is 27 options not counting plus settings now? Isn’t there 9? A1-3, B1-3, C1-3?

The other thing you forgot to mention is many many (almost all on BOS) will blame anything before themselves. 

Ok, my math generally sucks, its been a very long week at work, and I've been planning for some concrete work and I had the cubic feet in a yard calc stuck in my head.  But, ya, A1-3, B1-3, C1-3 and plus setting.    

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ahopkinsVTX
10 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

Ok, my math generally sucks, its been a very long week at work, and I've been planning for some concrete work and I had the cubic feet in a yard calc stuck in my head.  But, ya, A1-3, B1-3, C1-3 and plus setting.    

Haha no worries, at first I was like wow! I’ve been out of hard course skiing for too long. And then I did 3x3x3 in my head and said yeah I guess there always has been 27... then went wait no... addition, not multiplication :Doh: :lol:

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