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Anyone towing with a Tacoma?


shiftman

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I have a 2017 Tacoma Sport 4wd with a towing package. I am wondering if it would tow a Wakesetter of the 2006-2009 era with a dual axle trailer? Regular towing would short distances, with an occasional distance of 300 miles of fairly flat terrain.

Thanks for any information.

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Interweb says your truck curb weight is 4480lbs and is rated to tow 6800lbs.  A quick glance at the Resource page shows a 2009 VTX weighing about 3500ish dry.  Add fuel and gear and your gonna be pushing 4000.  Add to that another 1500ish lbs for a trailer.  That gets you around 5500bls tow weight.  Per Toyota, you are GTG there.  But, a few things I would consider.  1) the boat outweighs the truck by a solid 1000lbs.  I don't like that from a safety standpoint esp since the trailer likely has surge brakes.  You dont have positive control of the trailer's braking (like having electric with a controller)  2) The Taco has a smaller wheelbase and track width than a 1/2 ton which can lead to the boat more easily overtaking the truck in a quick reaction scenario.  3) Even though you have a towing package, you are likely going to want to look into some type of leaf spring assist for the rear.  The trailer should have 500ish lbs of tongue weight.  That is likely going to give you quite a bit of a$$ sag, which results in less weight on the steer axle (again....safety concern there).  4) How much do you like your engine/transmission?  Around town, it wouldnt be as bad.  But on long hauls (even though you said it was flat), thats going to really be working the drivetrain trying to keep a decent hwy speed.

Im not trying to talk you out of doing this.  Its just concerns i express about towing with smaller trucks.  If you have a dealer local to you, you might swing by and ask them if they will let you hook up to something similar weight and tug it around the block.  That is going to be the best way for you to know/decide if it will work for you. 

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Thanks. I ran the weight numbers and new I would be close. I was looking for aspects that I might have overlooked. Thank you for the info, it is very much appreciated. 

Looks like I will need a lighter boat or a possible trade to a Tundra. Thanks again.

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2 hours ago, Texan32 said:

Interweb says your truck curb weight is 4480lbs and is rated to tow 6800lbs.  A quick glance at the Resource page shows a 2009 VTX weighing about 3500ish dry.  Add fuel and gear and your gonna be pushing 4000.  Add to that another 1500ish lbs for a trailer.  That gets you around 5500bls tow weight.  Per Toyota, you are GTG there.  But, a few things I would consider.  1) the boat outweighs the truck by a solid 1000lbs.  I don't like that from a safety standpoint esp since the trailer likely has surge brakes.  You dont have positive control of the trailer's braking (like having electric with a controller)  2) The Taco has a smaller wheelbase and track width than a 1/2 ton which can lead to the boat more easily overtaking the truck in a quick reaction scenario.  3) Even though you have a towing package, you are likely going to want to look into some type of leaf spring assist for the rear.  The trailer should have 500ish lbs of tongue weight.  That is likely going to give you quite a bit of a$$ sag, which results in less weight on the steer axle (again....safety concern there).  4) How much do you like your engine/transmission?  Around town, it wouldn't be as bad.  But on long hauls (even though you said it was flat), thats going to really be working the drivetrain trying to keep a decent hwy speed.

Im not trying to talk you out of doing this.  Its just concerns i express about towing with smaller trucks.  If you have a dealer local to you, you might swing by and ask them if they will let you hook up to something similar weight and tug it around the block.  That is going to be the best way for you to know/decide if it will work for you. 

The "boat can't weight more than the truck" argument doesn't really work.  a new F250 weighs about 6000 -6500 pounds... a 23 LSV tips the scale at 7500 ish ready to go to the lake, so you cant tow with a new F250?.   even an F350 is still only ~7000#ish.  So what do you propose someone uses to tow around their 25LSV or M240?  I think everyone has this impression that their big truck has a curb weight of 14k pounds... it doesn't.  

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I towed my Tantrum with my 2010 Tacoma, single axle trailer, no trailer brakes and the boat was max 3000lbs with trailer (maybe less).  Standard transmission.  Gotta say that's probably the max weight I'd want to do, but I live in a region with major hills on our highways.

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Right now, I am pulling a 20 foot Baja with a single axle aluminum trailer. It's a little sluggish up steep grades, but otherwise it does great. The Wakesetter is likely a job for a Tundra.

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I had a 17 Tacoma with the 6spd manual.  Towing my echelon it was adequate but any heavier would have been a pain.

 

Pulling a wake setter at elevation, particularly trying to clear any of our passes wouldn't be fun at all.

Edited by Pra4sno
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1 hour ago, gregtay said:

The "boat can't weight more than the truck" argument doesn't really work.  a new F250 weighs about 6000 -6500 pounds... a 23 LSV tips the scale at 7500 ish ready to go to the lake, so you cant tow with a new F250?.   even an F350 is still only ~7000#ish.  So what do you propose someone uses to tow around their 25LSV or M240?  I think everyone has this impression that their big truck has a curb weight of 14k pounds... it doesn't.  

You are correct about about the weights. At some point, you trailer will outweigh the tow vehicle.  BUT, there are still advantages to having a heavier tow vehicle.....like the fact that they will have larger/more powerful brakes.  Weighing more also means there is more pressure friction between the tires and the pavement, which translates to better stopping ability.  I'm not to say an F250 unloaded stops shorter than a Taco unloaded (im sure it doesnt), but dragging the same weight behind them, it certainly will.  Being surge brake is what drives my desire to have a larger/heavier truck.  Electric brakes actively apply brake power as you stop.  Surge brakes require inertia of the trailer PUSHING AGAINST the truck to engage their brakes.  So literally, every time you stop, the trailer is trying to un-a$$ your trucks back end.

If you want to add airbags and a HD hitch to a Honda Civic and tow your 7000lb boat, go for it.  I was expressing MY concerns with what he is trying to accomplish.  If you dont agree that a heavier truck is safer....thats your opinion as well.  I say the sky is party cloudy....you say its mostly clear :biggrin:

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11 minutes ago, Texan32 said:

You are correct about about the weights. At some point, you trailer will outweigh the tow vehicle.  BUT, there are still advantages to having a heavier tow vehicle.....like the fact that they will have larger/more powerful brakes.  Weighing more also means there is more pressure friction between the tires and the pavement, which translates to better stopping ability.  I'm not to say an F250 unloaded stops shorter than a Taco unloaded (im sure it doesnt), but dragging the same weight behind them, it certainly will.  Being surge brake is what drives my desire to have a larger/heavier truck.  Electric brakes actively apply brake power as you stop.  Surge brakes require inertia of the trailer PUSHING AGAINST the truck to engage their brakes.  So literally, every time you stop, the trailer is trying to un-a$$ your trucks back end.

If you want to add airbags and a HD hitch to a Honda Civic and tow your 7000lb boat, go for it.  I was expressing MY concerns with what he is trying to accomplish.  If you dont agree that a heavier truck is safer....thats your opinion as well.  I say the sky is party cloudy....you say its mostly clear :biggrin:

 

Good analogy with the Honda Civic 

And the sky thing you said 

And how surge brake trailers are trying to break your tow vehicle loose 

Also, pressure friction

Edited by Pra4sno
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1 minute ago, Pra4sno said:

 

Good analogy with the Honda Civic 

And the sky thing you said 

And how surge brake trailers are trying to break your tow vehicle loose 

Also, pressure friction

 Mfgrs give a given vehicle a tow capacity based on a particular set of reasons.  According to them, you are "safe" to tow up to that weight.  Beyond being within the rated capacity, its just personal preference.  If you feel safe pulling your toy with your rig, thats all that counts.  Hence my suggestion to see if the/a dealer will let him test pull a demo boat. 

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1 minute ago, Texan32 said:

 Mfgrs give a given vehicle a tow capacity based on a particular set of reasons.  According to them, you are "safe" to tow up to that weight.  Beyond being within the rated capacity, its just personal preference.  If you feel safe pulling your toy with your rig, thats all that counts.  Hence my suggestion to see if the/a dealer will let him test pull a demo boat. 

A speed limit doesn't mean you are safe to drive at that speed.  

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1 minute ago, Pra4sno said:

A speed limit doesn't mean you are safe to drive at that speed.  

....have you been in Dallas checking out some of the "winners" that runs up and down our roads?! :rofl:

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27 minutes ago, Texan32 said:

....have you been in Dallas checking out some of the "winners" that runs up and down our roads?! :rofl:

I think I'm talking to one 

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1 hour ago, Texan32 said:

You are correct about about the weights. At some point, you trailer will outweigh the tow vehicle.  BUT, there are still advantages to having a heavier tow vehicle.....like the fact that they will have larger/more powerful brakes.  Weighing more also means there is more pressure friction between the tires and the pavement, which translates to better stopping ability.  I'm not to say an F250 unloaded stops shorter than a Taco unloaded (im sure it doesnt), but dragging the same weight behind them, it certainly will.  Being surge brake is what drives my desire to have a larger/heavier truck.  Electric brakes actively apply brake power as you stop.  Surge brakes require inertia of the trailer PUSHING AGAINST the truck to engage their brakes.  So literally, every time you stop, the trailer is trying to un-a$$ your trucks back end.

If you want to add airbags and a HD hitch to a Honda Civic and tow your 7000lb boat, go for it.  I was expressing MY concerns with what he is trying to accomplish.  If you dont agree that a heavier truck is safer....thats your opinion as well.  I say the sky is party cloudy....you say its mostly clear :biggrin:

Not looking to argue the merits of a big a** truck... no question that a 1 ton DW would be the ultimate tow vehicle, but if someone comes and reads this post I also want them to know the other side... they don't have to park a dually in their driveway.

Tires: Agree... more contact patch is better, but this is hardly exclusive to a big truck.  my tow primary tow vehicle has 295 section tires... lots of rubber on the road.  Some people put ridiculously big knobby tires on their trucks and probably reduce the friction/contact patch.

Brake size: Again, I completely agree, this is probably the biggest thing people over look. You want brakes that are overkill for normal driving and too many people tow without the stopping power they need.  BUT.. once again the answer isn't always "only full sized truck will do.  My primary tow vehicle has six piston Brembo's with very large rotors.  No issues with stopping power.

Suspension: Also key.  4 corner leveling suspension is a huge advantage.  I think Dodge is the only one that offers this today on their trucks but lots of SUVs are starting to offer something.

If I lived in Texas I'd no doubt have a full sized big a** truck.  I tried life with a new Tundra and then an Armada.. but I live in the Seattle area you it is hard to explain how challanging it is to daily drive something that big in a city ruled by people who want to do everything they can do discourage you from driving.. especially in a big truck.  So around here the cities mandate that 90% of parking spots are the size of a Prius (they even label them all with "COMPACT" and 8' wide lines are starting to become a common thing.  So... I have to find a compromise that works and thankfully there are some options out there that work.. and that are not compromising safety.  No white knuckling it to "make it work."  

 

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1 hour ago, Texan32 said:

 Mfgrs give a given vehicle a tow capacity based on a particular set of reasons.  According to them, you are "safe" to tow up to that weight.  Beyond being within the rated capacity, its just personal preference.  If you feel safe pulling your toy with your rig, thats all that counts.  Hence my suggestion to see if the/a dealer will let him test pull a demo boat. 

By now I believe most manufactures are using SAE J2807 for tow ratings... so a little less "finger in the wind, that number looks good" than is was in years past.  So rating should be far closer to actual capabilities (including stopping) these days.

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I love Tacoma’s but they don’t make great tow rigs for items that are bigger than they are.  F-150+ may not have the weight of a 23lsv + but they have longer and wider wheelbases, usually larger gauge steel frames, and can handle more tongue weight as a result.  Will the Tacoma work? Of course, it’s like a survival tool they really can do it all.  But it won’t do it well, and it could easily result in extra maintenance costs on the Tacoma or an accident due to over loading.    FWIW I have a 23lsv and my 4.7 V8 lifted landcruiser struggles quite a bit even when it’s not fully loaded down.  Its hard enough that I’m going to have to buy a tow rig to make things more comfortable for our family.

Edited by PNWoke
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7 minutes ago, gregtay said:

Not looking to argue the merits of a big a** truck... no question that a 1 ton DW would be the ultimate tow vehicle, but if someone comes and reads this post I also want them to know the other side... they don't have to park a dually in their driveway.

Tires: Agree... more contact patch is better, but this is hardly exclusive to a big truck.  my tow primary tow vehicle has 295 section tires... lots of rubber on the road.  Some people put ridiculously big knobby tires on their trucks and probably reduce the friction/contact patch.

Brake size: Again, I completely agree, this is probably the biggest thing people over look. You want brakes that are overkill for normal driving and too many people tow without the stopping power they need.  BUT.. once again the answer isn't always "only full sized truck will do.  My primary tow vehicle has six piston Brembo's with very large rotors.  No issues with stopping power.

Suspension: Also key.  4 corner leveling suspension is a huge advantage.  I think Dodge is the only one that offers this today on their trucks but lots of SUVs are starting to offer something.

If I lived in Texas I'd no doubt have a full sized big a** truck.  I tried life with a new Tundra and then an Armada.. but I live in the Seattle area you it is hard to explain how challanging it is to daily drive something that big in a city ruled by people who want to do everything they can do discourage you from driving.. especially in a big truck.  So around here the cities mandate that 90% of parking spots are the size of a Prius (they even label them all with "COMPACT" and 8' wide lines are starting to become a common thing.  So... I have to find a compromise that works and thankfully there are some options out there that work.. and that are not compromising safety.  No white knuckling it to "make it work."  

 

i can 100% agree with everything you said here.

5 minutes ago, gregtay said:

By now I believe most manufactures are using SAE J2807 for tow ratings... so a little less "finger in the wind, that number looks good" than is was in years past.  So rating should be far closer to actual capabilities (including stopping) these days.

I was actually looking in the owners manual of my F-150.  And Ford does indicate that use that standard.

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It’s common on sites like this for people to tell you that you need an oversized truck to pull your boat. The argument that the truck needs to weight more than or close to your boat holds no water. If it were up to them everyone would be towing with a diesel F250 😂

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It’s also common on these types of sites to cheerlead people into buying boats they aren’t fully prepared for so it’s good to have all the perspectives I guess.  I don’t think anyone is going to say you have to have an F-250, but it would certainly make a nice tow rig.  It seems most of the guys I know IRL with these boats (2005+) are using half ton or bigger trucks/SUVs.  The F150 Raptors and Tundras seems to be the most popular combo in the marinas i frequent.  I have never seen a Tacoma/4Runner in our area pulling a full size wakeboat but I’m sure there’s some Qualified Captains 😏 out there doing it. Something else to consider for OP is how steep/slippery the ramps are.  The smaller the rig the more you need to consider how good the traction is when you go to pull that heavy boat out.

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"Wakesetter" is a big variety of boat weight/sizes, even in that era.

It could be a 20' VTX, 21' VLX, 23' LSV or 24'7" LSV.  You would be freaking nuts to tow a 247 LSV with a Tacoma, especially for any real distance.  VTX, not as big of a deal.  So a Tacoma may tow one 2006 Wakesetter safely and be a danger to everyone else on another.

If you believe the Malibu weight ratings, you are just fooling yourself.  Further, tow ratings are driver only.  Add gear for an extended trip and that all takes down the tow rating.  

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43 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

"Wakesetter" is a big variety of boat weight/sizes, even in that era.

It could be a 20' VTX, 21' VLX, 23' LSV or 24'7" LSV.  You would be freaking nuts to tow a 247 LSV with a Tacoma, especially for any real distance.  VTX, not as big of a deal.  So a Tacoma may tow one 2006 Wakesetter safely and be a danger to everyone else on another.

If you believe the Malibu weight ratings, you are just fooling yourself.  Further, tow ratings are driver only.  Add gear for an extended trip and that all takes down the tow rating.  

VERY TRUE!  Taco and 4Runners can not tow the bigger boats.. The numbers just don't work (and I am guessing they would struggle with power up hills as well.)  Earlier in my boating life I moved up from a 19' I/o to a 23" Crownline (big tall boat.. I think they told me it weighed 4800# of something like that (again, likely a bogus number) and I didn't know that number didn't include the trailer, etc.  My wife and I show up to pick this thing up with our 4Runner (it at least had the 4.7 V8)... drove home from the boat dealer white knuckled with the hood pointing at the sky, scariest 10 mile drive ever.  Went down that afternoon and bought a new Tundra (they has just come out with the body style that has been around forever now.)    That 4Runner did great towing our single axle 19' boat... but no way was it up for the task of our bigger boat.  This is a photo they took just before we headed home with our new boat :-O

IMG_0250.thumb.JPG.9ff6a41afc04b9943781f28cac1468fa.JPG

 

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Yep, our v8 4runner had a tough time with our 21vlx. Would it do it? Yeah... but I was working it’s tail off and didn’t feel the safest. All while getting 6-7 mpg. 

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28 minutes ago, gregtay said:

VERY TRUE!  Taco and 4Runners can not tow the bigger boats.. The numbers just don't work (and I am guessing they would struggle with power up hills as well.)  Earlier in my boating life I moved up from a 19' I/o to a 23" Crownline (big tall boat.. I think they told me it weighed 4800# of something like that (again, likely a bogus number) and I didn't know that number didn't include the trailer, etc.  My wife and I show up to pick this thing up with our 4Runner (it at least had the 4.7 V8)... drove home from the boat dealer white knuckled with the hood pointing at the sky, scariest 10 mile drive ever.  Went down that afternoon and bought a new Tundra (they has just come out with the body style that has been around forever now.)    That 4Runner did great towing our single axle 19' boat... but no way was it up for the task of our bigger boat.  This is a photo they took just before we headed home with our new boat :-O

 

My brother had that same boat in red, with that badass captains call exhaust.  Let me tell you, at 21-24 years old that boat was my space ship to a whole new world.  He upgraded to high dollar formulas after that and I never borrowed another boat from him again but that crownline I will always remember.  18 years later it’s still going strong in our marina, owned by a buddy.

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