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BJSChneid76

Help! Dealership is hosing my buddy!

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BJSChneid76

I have owned all types of boats for past 40 years. I have had 2 V-drive wakeboats recently. Currently have MB Sports Tomcat with the PCM ZR6 motor. My buddy rented a 2020 Axis from local dealership to take to Lake Powell. He started the boat on the ramp for 3 seconds to make sure it was going to start before dropping it in the water. After unloading as he was idling around the ramp he got the overheat warning and brought it back in. The dealership is telling him that these new Axis boats with the new motors will burn up an impeller after running it for 3-5 seconds on the ramp. I say BS!!!! The impeller was destroyed and cost them two full days at Powell waiting for one to be delivered. The dealership says it is his fault. I think they gave him the boat with a bad impeller. I have run impellers dry because the water bowl got sucked to the bottom of the boat. It still takes a full minute before it starts to get so hot that you can smell it. Even after that, I pull the housing and the impeller has some slight melt damage around the edges but would probably be fine (no missing pieces or coming apart). So is this new Axis motor a different beast? I doubt it - but I don't have one either. Thanks for the help - appreciate it!

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Eagleboy99

I'm not sure why one would dry start an inboard, but that nothwithstanding, there is something wrong if an impeller gets fried in 3-5 seconds.

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RedWakesetterVLX
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Eagleboy99 said:

I'm not sure why one would dry start an inboard, but that nothwithstanding, there is something wrong if an impeller gets fried in 3-5 seconds.

Assuming it’s was only 3 seconds. 

Edited by RedWakesetterVLX
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Fffrank

I wouldn't believe him either tbh

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Pnwrider

How is the dealer trying to screw your buddy? Did he admit to starting the boat dry to the dealer? If not, you aren’t doing him any favors by posting this publicly. While it is well documented that the new impellers are garbage and seem to self destruct on the regular, your buddy didn’t do himself any favors by running it dry. No reason to assume a brand new boat isn’t going to start... 

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BJSChneid76

Thank you for replies - was really just wondering if these new impellers had a design flaw or something. I have started my boats for the last 40 years before I even leave the garage - just to make sure it fires before making the trip. Never had a problem. Change my impellers every other year because they usually look flawless at the end of every season. I think the dealer probably sent him out with a boat that had a bad impeller - and are blaming him because he was honest about seeing if it would turnover before taking down the ramp at Powell. My bet is the previous renter or dealership burnt it up getting it decontaminated. Its not a big deal but they are charging him for 2 days of rental for a boat he couldn't use which is no small chunk of change when renting a new Axis.

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RedWakesetterVLX
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, BJSChneid76 said:

Thank you for replies - was really just wondering if these new impellers had a design flaw or something. I have started my boats for the last 40 years before I even leave the garage - just to make sure it fires before making the trip. Never had a problem. Change my impellers every other year because they usually look flawless at the end of every season. I think the dealer probably sent him out with a boat that had a bad impeller - and are blaming him because he was honest about seeing if it would turnover before taking down the ramp at Powell. My bet is the previous renter or dealership burnt it up getting it decontaminated. Its not a big deal but they are charging him for 2 days of rental for a boat he couldn't use which is no small chunk of change when renting a new Axis.

That certainly could have been true about it being burnt up prior...really no way to know unless you I inspect it (which why would you it’s a rental).  Lots of people having issues with these impellers on the new M5/M6.  
 

Of course he admits to starting it dry they are going to blame him though.  Lesson learned...dont start the boat dry...and if you did dont admit it.  

Edited by RedWakesetterVLX

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jjackkrash

I never ever intentionally turn the engine over dry because you can, in fact, toast an impeller in 3 to 5 seconds.  In fact, a few months ago my wife hit the start switch by accident, it ran for about 3 to 5 seconds, and that was it.  Toasted impeller.  I always carry a spare and its a quick swap, so no reason to lose two days either.  

All that said, it is a wear item, and they also just go bad for no apparent reason, and it does suck to lose two days of boat on a vacation.  It seems like a good time for both sides to compromise a bit and meet somewhere in the middle.    

 

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Eagleboy99
4 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

I never ever intentionally turn the engine over dry because you can, in fact, toast an impeller in 3 to 5 seconds.

Neighbour has an I/O - the marine mechanic summerized it without running water - ran it for a couple minutes for sure.  Then later, the owner shows up a few days later and "tests" the summerization by running it dry for a couple minutes.  The boat is still on the trailer, but I think they are putting in the water this weekend.  I'm gonna watch.

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jjackkrash
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Neighbour has an I/O - the marine mechanic summerized it without running water - ran it for a couple minutes for sure.  Then later, the owner shows up a few days later and "tests" the summerization by running it dry for a couple minutes.  The boat is still on the trailer, but I think they are putting in the water this weekend.  I'm gonna watch.

They might be fine.  I have seen people run them in the parking lot before they launch long enough to make me really cringe without toasting them.  Luck of the draw I guess.  

Edited by jjackkrash

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kylesullens
12 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

They might be fine.  I have seen people run them in the parking lot before they launch long enough to make me really cringe without toasting them.  Luck of the draw I guess.  

I have seen guys run their I/Os for several minutes while waiting in line to get down the ramp.  Apparently so the motor will "warm up".  With the motor running and the drive in the full UP position, you can hear the gears grinding.  Very cringe-worthy.  I have mentioned to a couple guys that they could do damage to their impeller and drive unit, and both have suggested that I don't know what i'm talking about and they have always done it that way.

Sigh.... The boat ramp is always an adventure.  

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gregtay
1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

I never ever intentionally turn the engine over dry because you can, in fact, toast an impeller in 3 to 5 seconds.  In fact, a few months ago my wife hit the start switch by accident, it ran for about 3 to 5 seconds, and that was it.  Toasted impeller.  I always carry a spare and its a quick swap, so no reason to lose two days either.  

All that said, it is a wear item, and they also just go bad for no apparent reason, and it does suck to lose two days of boat on a vacation.  It seems like a good time for both sides to compromise a bit and meet somewhere in the middle.    

 

This.  It is well documented across the boating world (not just Malibu's or inboards) that you can in fact toast an impeller in 3-5 seconds. Never dry start a motor.  And that fact that this was powell in the summer where it was likely 110+ with very low humidity in the air it is likely that impeller was bone dry when he turned it over.  

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Pnwrider
3 hours ago, BJSChneid76 said:I have started my boats for the last 40 years before I even leave the garage - just to make sure it fires before making the trip. Never had a problem. Change my impellers every other year because they usually look flawless at the end of every season. I think the dealer probably sent him out with a boat that had a bad impeller - and are blaming him because he was honest about seeing if it would turnover before taking down the ramp at Powell. My bet is the previous renter or dealership burnt it up getting it decontaminated. Its not a big deal but they are charging him for 2 days of rental for a boat he couldn't use which is no small chunk of change when renting a new Axis.

No offense, but with “40 years of boat ownership experience” you should know better than to dry start a boat. These new boats aren’t 40 years old. They are fuel injected, modern engines. Why would you need to test that out of the water? 

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RyanB

Well, I think you see the consensus of this group. Don’t start the boat out of water. 
 

If you spend more than a minute researching impeller problems on these new boat motors, you will quickly find that there are many of them. For whatever reason, either the impeller itself or the design of the engine, makes them more fragile than those of the past. 
 

But after admitting to a dry start, your buddy isn’t going to get much sympathy. 
 

I hope he had a good time on the remainder of his trip. Powell is my favorite place. 

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Keef
On 7/31/2020 at 9:40 AM, oldjeep said:

Depends.  If the boat had been fully drained and the housing was completely dry with no lube - maybe, considering how bad some of these impellers have been..   But his buddy lost the argument with the dealer the second he dry started a boat.

yeah and 3-5 second claim is dubious at best.  Sounds like when you rent a boat you should ask some questions about using it

 

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csleaver
On 7/30/2020 at 8:17 PM, BJSChneid76 said:

Thank you for replies - was really just wondering if these new impellers had a design flaw or something. I have started my boats for the last 40 years before I even leave the garage - just to make sure it fires before making the trip. Never had a problem. Change my impellers every other year because they usually look flawless at the end of every season. I think the dealer probably sent him out with a boat that had a bad impeller - and are blaming him because he was honest about seeing if it would turnover before taking down the ramp at Powell. My bet is the previous renter or dealership burnt it up getting it decontaminated. Its not a big deal but they are charging him for 2 days of rental for a boat he couldn't use which is no small chunk of change when renting a new Axis.

I've done the same thing for years, and this year I tore all the vanes off of my impeller when I did it.  It can happen at any time on any engine.

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Eagleboy99
20 minutes ago, csleaver said:

I've done the same thing for years, and this year I tore all the vanes off of my impeller when I did it.  It can happen at any time on any engine.

 A couple of weeks back I was at the DMV ( motor vehicle registry) and this  van next to me has a really, really flat front tire.  I noticed it and when the owner shows up I  point it out.  He thanks me and drives off.  I had a compressor with me and would have gladly helped, and a gas station with air was across the street.  His choice I guess.  

I mean you can drive on a flat tire, or you can dry start an engine, but WHY?

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csleaver
1 hour ago, Eagleboy99 said:

 A couple of weeks back I was at the DMV ( motor vehicle registry) and this  van next to me has a really, really flat front tire.  I noticed it and when the owner shows up I  point it out.  He thanks me and drives off.  I had a compressor with me and would have gladly helped, and a gas station with air was across the street.  His choice I guess.  

I mean you can drive on a flat tire, or you can dry start an engine, but WHY?

I kept putting off maintenance on my trailer and had my bearings on one wheel come apart on my first trip to the lake this season.  Hopefully my new axle will be ready to ship out next week.  Unfortunately, between quarantine time and mechanical failures it's been a rough boating season for me this year.

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