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2020 M6Di 441 15 and 452 15 codes


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Hi All...I have. 2020 23 MXZ and up at an alpine lake (about 4K feet) and dropped the boat in water yesterday and cruised to our cove.  
 

Received engine alarm and two codes showing

 

SPN 441 FMI 15 EMWT1 High Temp Stage 1

SPN 442 FMI 15 EMWT2 High Temp Stage 1
 

Seems to be a Manifold temp sensor from what I read?

Any ideas on these codes or trouble shooting?  Starting a four day trip at the lake so this is a bummer

 

engine temp was running at 166.

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ahopkins22LSV

Did they stay active? I have had these come up twice on my M5. It is always right away after starting to cruise. They go to inactive as soon as I come off plane and sit in neutral for a minute. I haven't ever had them remain active other than a few seconds when they first pop up. I have a theory that it is a priming issue since it only happens at the very beginning of the day. It also has only ever happened when I take off fairly early to a 20-22ish mph cruising speed. If I idle for awhile then go, I have never gotten it.

I'd monitor it if they went inactive and enjoy your vacation. Stage 1 alarm is not a damaging temp level.

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My M6 has thrown this code 3 times now.  Twice it was because my sea strainer had sand/weeds in it.  The other time was when I took off before motor was up to temp. Like @ahopkinsVTX I wouldn't worry about it unless it stays active or throws a Stage2 or your temp get in the high 170's.  If that happens I'd check the heat ex-changer for pieces of the impeller by removing the hose and feeling around with your finger.  If you find debris, replace the impeller. 

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I'm new to this forum, my first post, and first time owner of a Malibu-

I have a new 2020 25' LSV w M6DI engine. Mine is doing this same thing with same EMWT high temp codes. It does go away after a throttle back and does not return until engine cools off. Only happens on first initial cold engine runs.

What I have noticed-
Start up, idle out, engine coolant temp 140+ and climbing as normal. Throttle up past 50% engine load and run for couple minutes. Watching the engine diagnostic page and all the temps, you can watch the EMWT's temp quickly climb. EMWT2 seems to climb faster than EMWT1. They seem to climb to 200F+ every time on initial run. IF it hits 220F you will get an alarm and engine will throttle back. At the same time the EMWT temps drop very quickly back to normal - 170F ish. The engine closed coolant side never goes above 170F. Then you can continue as normal. Happens every first run when engine is cold. Doesn't always get to the alarm. Sometimes EMWT will climb to 200-210 and then drop back to normal. When watching, you can see the temps drop back suddenly/instantly like a gate opened or system burps.

Seems to be an air pocket or vapor lock type issue.
I have been researching and cant find a schematic of the RAW water side.
This also acts similar to a sticking thermostat. Is there a T' Stat on the RAW water side? Or a valve of some kind?

To see the EMWT temps - Touch the gear(settings) icon on small screen. Touch 'Diagnostics'. Touch 'Engine Diagnostics'. You will be able to see & watch all engine temps.

Does anyone from Malibu Tech watch these forums and can provide some ideas what to look for or suggest to my dealer?
My dealer is aware of my issue and has replaced the RAW water pump as a test. Still no improvement.
And to be clear, strainer is clear and bottom pickup is clear.
Boat now has only 20hrs on it. Still in break-in.

I don't think this is hurting the engine, but I hope this doesn't damage the Exhaust Manifolds over time...

I would love to see the RAW water schematic to help see how the water is flowing through the engine and what could be causing the issue.

Thanks for any input-
Bart

 

 

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41 minutes ago, BartStone said:

I'm new to this forum, my first post, and first time owner of a Malibu-

I have a new 2020 25' LSV w M6DI engine. Mine is doing this same thing with same EMWT high temp codes. It does go away after a throttle back and does not return until engine cools off. Only happens on first initial cold engine runs.

What I have noticed-
Start up, idle out, engine coolant temp 140+ and climbing as normal. Throttle up past 50% engine load and run for couple minutes. Watching the engine diagnostic page and all the temps, you can watch the EMWT's temp quickly climb. EMWT2 seems to climb faster than EMWT1. They seem to climb to 200F+ every time on initial run. IF it hits 220F you will get an alarm and engine will throttle back. At the same time the EMWT temps drop very quickly back to normal - 170F ish. The engine closed coolant side never goes above 170F. Then you can continue as normal. Happens every first run when engine is cold. Doesn't always get to the alarm. Sometimes EMWT will climb to 200-210 and then drop back to normal. When watching, you can see the temps drop back suddenly/instantly like a gate opened or system burps.

Seems to be an air pocket or vapor lock type issue.
I have been researching and cant find a schematic of the RAW water side.
This also acts similar to a sticking thermostat. Is there a T' Stat on the RAW water side? Or a valve of some kind?

To see the EMWT temps - Touch the gear(settings) icon on small screen. Touch 'Diagnostics'. Touch 'Engine Diagnostics'. You will be able to see & watch all engine temps.

Does anyone from Malibu Tech watch these forums and can provide some ideas what to look for or suggest to my dealer?
My dealer is aware of my issue and has replaced the RAW water pump as a test. Still no improvement.
And to be clear, strainer is clear and bottom pickup is clear.
Boat now has only 20hrs on it. Still in break-in.

I don't think this is hurting the engine, but I hope this doesn't damage the Exhaust Manifolds over time...

I would love to see the RAW water schematic to help see how the water is flowing through the engine and what could be causing the issue.

Thanks for any input-
Bart

 

 

Sure sounds like this could all be related to M5/M6 motor's toasting impellers.  The raw water side just doesn't seem to prime as it should at startup.  Eventually the water starts flowing (if you haven't eaten your impeller.)   My guess is the issue gets worse as your impeller starts to get compromised (even harder to prime the pump) until eventually you have a call of melted rubber and a true overheat situation.   

As @23LSVOwner suggested above: we are now in the habit of blipping the throttle after start up in hope that it helps get the water flowing.

And keep a spare impeller in the boat!

Edited by gregtay
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AHHH! @gregtay that makes what my dealer said make more sense.

When they replaced my pump at 10HRS, he said there was a known issue with "Gen 1" pumps and the improved "GEN 2" help fix an overheat issue. I didn't clarify pump vs impeller replacement.
But sadly, this has not fixed my issue.

I will certainly keep an eye on my impeller.
I was a MC driver for years, I kept couple impellers on board. Need to get one for this boat now.

Going out after lunch (& virtual meetings) and will try the throttle blip to see if it helps and will report back...

 

 

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Just got back in.

I tried throttling up (blip) in neutral couple times. 1,500-2,000rpm rev during warm up. Let the engine warm to coolant temp of 130F+, idling.

Manifold water temps were 110F ish and rising.

Ran the boat up to 30mph & 60% engine power. Watched the Manifold water temps rise steadily over 200F. Warning alarm came on at 220. Max temp I saw was 230F. Engine throttled back. I pulled to neutral. Water temps slowly returned to normal, 150F ish, within about 10 seconds.

Throttle blips didn’t help...

Rest of the day the boat preformed great!
No issues, no more temp problems.
Strange it’s just on the initial run.

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23 hours ago, BartStone said:

AHHH! @gregtay that makes what my dealer said make more sense.

When they replaced my pump at 10HRS, he said there was a known issue with "Gen 1" pumps and the improved "GEN 2" help fix an overheat issue. I didn't clarify pump vs impeller replacement.
But sadly, this has not fixed my issue.

I will certainly keep an eye on my impeller.
I was a MC driver for years, I kept couple impellers on board. Need to get one for this boat now.

Going out after lunch (& virtual meetings) and will try the throttle blip to see if it helps and will report back...

 

 

Yes... first rev/model of the impellers was defective.  They switched to a new design but the issue either isn't fully solved or there was just a bad batch that have a tendency to fail early.  I am sure Malibu's engineers know the full story.  Regardless... really good idea to keep a spare on the boat.

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ahopkins22LSV
15 minutes ago, dcarl said:

To anyone who has changed one on the water, how long does it take for the motor to cool down before you can safely work on it?

Not quick enough to wait it out. Prepare for some cooked forearms. Was really fun one time when I had to fix a steering cable issue under the engine on a few boats ago. Impeller can probably be done fairly safe id imagine though. 

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I just changed mine on dry land, more fun than on my 2002 Monsoon.  But... still not fun or something I would want to do on the water with a hot engine.

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On 7/21/2020 at 8:28 AM, cmorgani said:

Hi All...I have. 2020 23 MXZ and up at an alpine lake (about 4K feet) and dropped the boat in water yesterday and cruised to our cove.  
 

Received engine alarm and two codes showing

 

SPN 441 FMI 15 EMWT1 High Temp Stage 1

SPN 442 FMI 15 EMWT2 High Temp Stage 1
 

Seems to be a Manifold temp sensor from what I read?

Any ideas on these codes or trouble shooting?  Starting a four day trip at the lake so this is a bummer

 

engine temp was running at 166.

Update for those interested.  Took the boat into the dealer when returned from the trip.  Described the codes (and new ones from last day) and they were pretty sure the issue was impeller based on other customer boats with the M5/M6 engine.  After looking they confirmed the impeller was shot and said they have had multiple come back in the 50-60 hour range that wore out and caused same issues and that it is a known problem with the new M5/M6 engines and a batch of impellers.  They are using a different replacement impeller (installed under warranty) and said they have had good success from other boats with no issues coming back with the new impeller they are using. So those that see this code with those hours, have a look at your impeller and ask your dealer for a replacement.  Also, they had a new program update as well from Malibu for the M6 engine so they did that as well (sharing as I bought the boat in May, so any with a boat from then or prior, you may have an update as well).

  • Like 3
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I have a new 2020 23 MXZ with the M6Di and at the 20 hour mark, my impeller went bad as well.  Dealer said they were seeing this issue lately.  I now carry a spare impeller.  How difficult is it to change?  I heard you have to get some special tool from Malibu??

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  • 2 years later...

Hoping to revitalize this thread.

I purchased a 2020 VLX with the M5 last year, and it is doing the exact same thing as BartStone said above. Only on the first run of the day. The boat stays in the water, It has a warranty replacement raw water pump, with a new impeller. I have checked the hoses and clamps for tightness, the sea strainer is in great shape, no cracks, seals well.

I don't know what else to check. The boat runs perfect besides this. I have talked to my local dealer, and the dealer where the boat was originally purchased, and they have no idea. Is it possible that the exhaust manifold water temp sensors are faulty? Is there a way to test them?

Any help would be awesome.

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11 hours ago, Thanley said:

Hoping to revitalize this thread.

I purchased a 2020 VLX with the M5 last year, and it is doing the exact same thing as BartStone said above. Only on the first run of the day. The boat stays in the water, It has a warranty replacement raw water pump, with a new impeller. I have checked the hoses and clamps for tightness, the sea strainer is in great shape, no cracks, seals well.

I don't know what else to check. The boat runs perfect besides this. I have talked to my local dealer, and the dealer where the boat was originally purchased, and they have no idea. Is it possible that the exhaust manifold water temp sensors are faulty? Is there a way to test them?

Any help would be awesome.

What happens if you let it warm fully to 160 at idle before you head out?  My thought is that maybe they have some sort of funky thermostat bypass in the heat exchanger that isn't quite right on these engines, and they don't allow enough water to flow to the manifolds until the thermostat is fully open.

Why they would do that is beyond me, so hopefully they don't.  Normally, the raw water side of the heat exchanger has unempeded flow through to the manifolds.  The manifolds should run cooler until the exchanger heats up fully.  @csleaver, do they have funky exchangers that use a thermostat on the raw water outlet to the manifolds?

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ahopkins22LSV
11 hours ago, Thanley said:

Hoping to revitalize this thread.

I purchased a 2020 VLX with the M5 last year, and it is doing the exact same thing as BartStone said above. Only on the first run of the day. The boat stays in the water, It has a warranty replacement raw water pump, with a new impeller. I have checked the hoses and clamps for tightness, the sea strainer is in great shape, no cracks, seals well.

I don't know what else to check. The boat runs perfect besides this. I have talked to my local dealer, and the dealer where the boat was originally purchased, and they have no idea. Is it possible that the exhaust manifold water temp sensors are faulty? Is there a way to test them?

Any help would be awesome.

I believe there was a service bulletin that fixed the problems we were having back in 2020. I would reach out to your local dealer. I think it was a software update and a valve. It was also 3 years ago now and I don’t exactly remember. 

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There are thermostats on each bank of the exhaust system to regulate the temperature of the raw water in the exhaust manifolds.  When working properly, they will help prevent condensation build up in the exhuast which is important to catalyst longevity. 

There was also a Service Bulletin requiring the replacement of the Y-pipe cooling relief valve for all Malibu Monsoon M5Di & M6Di engines manufactured between 
April 2019 and July 15, 2020.  The original relief valves has a spring which could corrode and stick.  The replacement valve had a stainless spring and a lower relief pressure. 

Loose grounds or bad connections could also cause the sensors to not register the proper temperature. 

  • Like 3
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8 hours ago, csleaver said:

There are thermostats on each bank of the exhaust system to regulate the temperature of the raw water in the exhaust manifolds.  When working properly, they will help prevent condensation build up in the exhuast which is important to catalyst longevity. 

There was also a Service Bulletin requiring the replacement of the Y-pipe cooling relief valve for all Malibu Monsoon M5Di & M6Di engines manufactured between 
April 2019 and July 15, 2020.  The original relief valves has a spring which could corrode and stick.  The replacement valve had a stainless spring and a lower relief pressure. 

Loose grounds or bad connections could also cause the sensors to not register the proper temperature. 

Thanks.  So it isn't the heat exchanger with the funky plumbing, it is the exhaust manifold.  I get it about the cats, but I suspect that these engines may be a bit overengineered.  Simple is good in most cases.

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This is great information! I will call the dealer regarding the service bulletin from 2020. hopefully that can help me get rid of this issue.

The only downfall is, I can't get to the boat for another 10 or 12 days as there is a wildfire directly above the hwy that leads to our lake.

Only one way in or out that is paved!

I'll post more once I try this out. Thanks again!

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On 6/14/2023 at 10:19 PM, csleaver said:

There are thermostats on each bank of the exhaust system to regulate the temperature of the raw water in the exhaust manifolds.  When working properly, they will help prevent condensation build up in the exhuast which is important to catalyst longevity. 

There was also a Service Bulletin requiring the replacement of the Y-pipe cooling relief valve for all Malibu Monsoon M5Di & M6Di engines manufactured between 
April 2019 and July 15, 2020.  The original relief valves has a spring which could corrode and stick.  The replacement valve had a stainless spring and a lower relief pressure. 

Loose grounds or bad connections could also cause the sensors to not register the proper temperature. 

This.

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