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Engine quit on lake, won’t start.


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So previously I was having some issues with my gauges that I may have caused myself.     But today was a bad one.   
 

First thing noticed was a reluctance to start when it has previously fired right up no matter what.   A bit across the lake some quick hesitation then fine.  Tack bounced as well.    Get ready for some surfing and again hard to start but then idles smooth but with a bouncy tach.     Pulling my son the PP screen goes solid but works, the tach is bouncing around, and it’s missing/hesitating/cutting out.    Not good.   Pack it up and head in.   Getting even harder to start.   Heading in and it won’t go past 2500 rpm and I’m getting it cutting out now and then.   Tach is peaking out when it hesitates and bounces around.   Get close to the harbor and it dies completely and won’t start at all.   Wave runner saved the day.    Karma for pulling someone off of the rocks a few weeks ago. 
 

where do I start?    Fuel filter and pump I’m thinking but why is the tack freaking out like it is?

 

also had the volt meter go to about 16 volts for a short time but it did go to normal.   Those are cutting out as well.   
 

 Thanks for any info.   Bummed. 

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formulaben

My guess is you have two issues, first being the gauges that you alluded to, and the other sounds fuel related; some symptoms sound like it could be vapor lock, other point elsewhere.  Are you familiar with vapor lock?  How hot was it when this happened?

What exactly do you mean by "Tach is peaking out when it hesitates and bounces around"?

2500RPM is the limp mode limit IIRC.

How did oil pressure look?

No beep codes?

How well is this boat maintained? If it hasn't had attention I'd change plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and even the coil (they get intermittent when hot before failure) to eliminate any simple/preventive maintenance issues. And lastly change the fuel filter for sure before you start looking at the fuel pump.

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Yea familiar with vapor lock.     It was a hard start right from the get go with a cold engine so doubtful.    The engine is not hot by any means.   I just attempted to start again with zero luck.  Not even a spark.    Before, when it has hard starting it was firing and almost back firing before starting and running.     Could this indicate the coil?
 

boat has been well cared for.    I would highly doubt any neglect causing this aside from my fiddling with the speedometer situation (another post)

the tach behaves like this:

at idle it bounces a bunch where it previously was steady.  
 

when the boat hesitates, it indicates max rpm momentarily.  
perfect pass display shows random characters during start and tach indicates about 2500rpm during cranking.  
 

before start the fuel pump is running as normal momentarily.  
 

Ironically, last week I took it to the dealer to check hours and any codes and it was perfect.  No fault codes.  
 

boat has been very well cared for.     I’m the 3rd owner and previous owner took good care of it.  I’ve put on about 100 hours since I purchased it and it has been 100% trouble free.    

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formulaben
41 minutes ago, ROFF said:

I just attempted to start again with zero luck.  Not even a spark.    

It didn't kick over, or you check and verified there was no spark?

OK, I wasn't specific about "well maintained." I understand it is very well cared for but have maintenance components like I listed above been replaced on regular and recent intervals, or only replaced upon failure?

More specifically, when exactly were the spark plugs, plug wires, cap & rotor, and fuel filter last replaced?

Higher up on the list is IAC, TPS, MAP and knock sensor(s). Those all can cause issues but we have to make sure the basics are covered first before throwing money at the issue.

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Turns over fine.  But not even a pop out of it.   I did not check for spark yet.    Trying to get a plan together and possibly eliminate some things using the great help here.   
 

Normal starts have been immediate.   Just a blip of the starter.    Just prior to this problem the start was longer with some pops then it would run.     Now nothing when cranking.   
 

Can’t answer the regular stuff right now.   I will contact PO.      
 

Im an hour away from the dealer so I think I’ll just run it up there tomorrow to get a diagnostic. 

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Ok.  Was able to verify spark while cranking.    It was orange.   Not sure if that’s indicative of anything or not.    Also.   After cranking a while (plug in) I could smell gas.   Not that it means the pressure is good.    Will test fuel pressure tomorrow. 

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My vote is on the spark module at the base of the distributor.  They are very heat sensitive, and tend to act up in various ways when they decide they won't take any more.

Use thermal paste to reinstall.

  • Like 2
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I chased ignition problems on my old RLX. She ate an ignition coil and two of the distributor base ignition modules before I found the culprit.

It was a slowly failing pick-up coil at the base of the distributor. 
 

The symptoms were exactly like vapor lock.

  • Like 2
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So here’s what I did today.  Still no starting.  
 

Fuel pressure check.  40psi.   Plugs are wet after cranking.   It’s definitely gas.   Fuel pump primes when turning on the key.    
 

I’m getting spark.  Held the plug against the block and for a very bright spark even in bright sunlight.   
 

Took the ICM and coil to auto parts store with the intention of replacing.   They tested the ICM and said it was good.   No check of the coil. 
 

3 relays checked good.  
 

3 fuses checked good. 
 

Even tho I’ve gotten spark I’m not getting any kind of combustion when I spray carb cleaner down the intake.    Not even a pop.   

Edited by ROFF
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8 hours ago, ROFF said:

So here’s what I did today.  Still no starting.  
 

Fuel pressure check.  40psi.   Plugs are wet after cranking.   It’s definitely gas.   Fuel pump primes when turning on the key.    
 

I’m getting spark.  Held the plug against the block and for a very bright spark even in bright sunlight.   
 

Took the ICM and coil to auto parts store with the intention of replacing.   They tested the ICM and said it was good.   No check of the coil. 
 

3 relays checked good.  
 

3 fuses checked good. 
 

Even tho I’ve gotten spark I’m not getting any kind of combustion when I spray carb cleaner down the intake.    Not even a pop.   


what was fuel pressure at key on, and what was it when it would idle?

With fuel pressure and air but no combustion I lean toward a spark problem or the spark plug wires are out of order.  Any chance the plug wires are messed up? Coil wire on tight?

re-examine the coil and ICM. You say they checked the ICM, I still think the ICM is fritzing when it gets hot. If the plug wires are in the correct place, replace the ICM and Coil and see if it will run.

i think you have dash board issues, what did you do when you said you were cleaning up wires or something like that which lead to the burnt speedo?

Edited by Bozboat
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When I cranked it the pressure dropped to the high 30s.   I believe this is in spec.    
It never fired or idled so no reading for running.   
 

The wires are all tight and have not been moved since it was running.   All connections have been examined.  The only corrosion was on the coil and the distributor points.  It wasn’t much.  Cleaned off.   
 

My dash issues I can’t believe.    Instruments intermittently reset and my PP screen has random characters sometimes.   I may have done some serous damage. 
I was trying to get the speedometer adjustment switches to work properly.  I connected/unconnected the wires.   
I have no need to have those switches work.   The speedo was fine as it was    

prior to this the only “issue” was a bouncy oil pressure gauge (sender).   
 

im pretty pissed off at myself right now.    
 

going to run it up to the dealer tomorrow to have the diagnostic plugged in.   Maybe something will be revealed.   Crossing my fingers I didn’t screw up the ECM.   

Edited by ROFF
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I don't know anything about mechanicals but recently I have been left dead in the water.  I had spark and the fuel pump was pumping.  It was the ignition module.  I replaced it and was fine, but then smoked through the second one too.  On my third now, but no issues yet.  Like an impeller, I think I need to have a spare on hand. 

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ICM.

Good friend of mine had similar issues with his 02 Moonson, minus the gauges. Original ICM died. Stalling, sputtering etc. Cold starts where fine, his trouble started when engine got warm. He started out with a cheap replacement that died quickly. Stepped up in cost on the 2nd one and things we're better for a bit, it too died fairly quickly. He is on his 3rd and most expensive ICM to date and it has worked flawless for the last month. All purchased at local auto parts store. Not sure if he should consider a marine variety, if one exists. He also had a bad cell in his one of his batteries that may have contributed, not sure how or to what degree. Battery charged fine but did not pass a load test.

Bottomline, the ICM is an easy replacement that will leave you dead in the water when it fails. Could very well be your issue. 

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21 hours ago, ROFF said:

Fuel pressure check.  40psi.   Plugs are wet after cranking.   It’s definitely gas.   Fuel pump primes when turning on the key.    

 

Wait a sec, shouldn't Fuel PSI be 58-62 PSI? 

Edited by hawaiianstyln
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I believe for this engine it’s in the 40 range and a bit less when running.    
 

Shot some starter fluid in this morning and nothing.    
 

Going to have ECM scanned then start replacing ignition components.    

  • Like 1
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Replace the coil and the ICM.  then test.

while I appreciate that a true mechanic might individually test some of these components and not just throw parts at it, there is a time value and frustration value that leads me to throw parts at it.   Coil and ICM are not expensive parts and I am under the belief that a bad coil can shorten the life of the ICM.

  • Like 2
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1 hour ago, Bozboat said:

Replace the coil and the ICM.  then test.

while I appreciate that a true mechanic might individually test some of these components and not just throw parts at it, there is a time value and frustration value that leads me to throw parts at it.   Coil and ICM are not expensive parts and I am under the belief that a bad coil can shorten the life of the ICM.

Everything about this thread yells, "ICM."  Always take a blowtorch with you to heat it up real good when you have parts guy test one.

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New cap, plugs, wires, coil, and ICM. 
 

Fired right up!    

 

Thanks for all of the help!
 

All of that after a trip to the dealer to see if there were any fault codes.  That was a huge mistake.    Rock got my windshield.   
 

Ugh!   That’s going to be a tough find.   
of course there’s one on eBay.   For the opposite side!

Edited by ROFF
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