Towing Mods- Trailer and Vehicle

[Eagleboy99]

Depends on how far, how often and with whom.  Not the ideal vehicle of course, but like Dad used to say "Horses for courses".

[Packrat]

Consider a 4WD V6 Toyota Highlander with tow package and third row seat. Whatever you do don’t consider Front wheel drive only it doesn’t work well on loose gravel or dirt roads with hills. I had a front wheel drive Highlander and then went to a 4WD Sequoia.

[Pra4sno]

@Packrat beat me to it!  The highlander would be a good compromise here.  You still get the Toyota reliability, a bump in tow rating, plenty of interior space (the highlander does feel like a split between a minivan and a 4Runner), and a lot more to like.  One note is that it likely will not come with a 7-pin trailer connection, or the harnesses to add one.  Not a big deal but worth noting.  

 

Alternatively, you could look to something like a Eco-boost Ford Explorer, which gets decent gas mileage and has a great tow rating.

 

I recently upgraded my trailer brakes to electric braking from a single axle hydraulic surge system that was coming apart at the seams.  It is by far my favorite towing-related upgrade.  I have the Tekonsha P3 and break-away 12v breakaway kit, and everything else came from E-trailer.  I use my boat in fresh water.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Pra4sno

[RyanB]

On 5/29/2020 at 6:27 PM, Eagleboy99 said:

I can absolutely assure you that an AWD minivan can easily tow a single axle Response-class boat and survive.  In the Rockies no less. That said, I would not want to tow hundreds of miles regularly with one.

I am curious how you can “absolutely assure” this?

[Eagleboy99]

3 hours ago, RyanB said:

I am curious how you can “absolutely assure” this?

Because a friend has done it and has pictures to prove it.

[obski]

We had a 98 Sienna, also rated for 3500 lbs, and towed a Reinell I/O with it. The boat and trailer were right at the limit. You could definitely feel the boat starting and especially stopping. It really wasn’t safe. We eventually burned out the transmission.

We bought a 01 Tahoe to replace it, which we still have. No comparison.

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Because a friend has done it and has pictures to prove it.

Did it one time?  100,000 miles worth?  Somewhere in between?

In all due respect, I think it isn't very smart to go against what the manufacture recommends.  If they thought you could/should tow 5000 pounds with it, they would rate it for that.

[jjackkrash]

IIRC, the Sienna is on a Camry unibody chassis with a heavier body.  I'd have to agree with RyanB, I don't see how it  is a good idea to regularly push, let alone exceed, tow specs on this type of set up.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by jjackkrash

[Eagleboy99]

26 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Did it one time?  100,000 miles worth?  Somewhere in between?

In all due respect, I think it isn't very smart to go against what the manufacture recommends.  If they thought you could/should tow 5000 pounds with it, they would rate it for that.

GC AWD can tow 3500 lbs.

[BlacknBu]

I used to tow a 18 ft bayliner that when loaded was ~3.5K lbs. Was behind a 14' jeep cherokee with the V6 and Stage 3 package (4500lb limit). I quickly got out of it mostly due to feeling the boat too much & braking. I'll personally never tow a boat again anywhere near 75%+ of the capacity. 

I can only image the tongue weight with a 5K load on a minivan. 

[Eagleboy99]

1 hour ago, BlacknBu said:

I used to tow a 18 ft bayliner that when loaded was ~3.5K lbs. Was behind a 14' jeep cherokee with the V6 and Stage 3 package (4500lb limit). I quickly got out of it mostly due to feeling the boat too much & braking. I'll personally never tow a boat again anywhere near 75%+ of the capacity. 

I can only image the tongue weight with a 5K load on a minivan. 

First of all, 5K lbs is way more than a GC can handle, so your point is moot.  It is pretty easy to pull a 3K lb boat with a van rated for 3500 lbs.  But AGAIN - I would not do this every weekend.  But for a few times a year, sure.

[RyanB]

42 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

First of all, 5K lbs is way more than a GC can handle, so your point is moot.  It is pretty easy to pull a 3K lb boat with a van rated for 3500 lbs.  But AGAIN - I would not do this every weekend.  But for a few times a year, sure.

I guess I am not up on acronyms.  What is a "GC"?

And where are you getting a 3000 pound boat?  Because once you add the trailer and gear, it will be between 4000 - 4500 pounds (or more).

[Pra4sno]

37 minutes ago, RyanB said:

I guess I am not up on acronyms.  What is a "GC"?

And where are you getting a 3000 pound boat?  Because once you add the trailer and gear, it will be between 4000 - 4500 pounds (or more).

I think he meant grand Cherokee, but that doesn't make sense as they have hefty tow ratings even on the old inline 6.  

An older Cherokee, "XJ" are short wheel base and pretty light.  They have guts and can pull a load but I could see how they wouldn't do well controlling a trailer when braking.  

 

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that the minivan route is going to git'r'done, but that it might be unsafe, or it might toast the transmission, or it might carry a lot of liability, or it might get a collision claim rejected.  One of them is enough exposure for most here to move along to other choices.

 

What about renting a car the few times you tow, or grabbing a uhaul or home Depot truck and having a follow car?  If my memory serves there are actually quite a few folks here that do this.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pra4sno

[RyanB]

49 minutes ago, Pra4sno said:

I think he meant grand Cherokee, but that doesn't make sense as they have hefty tow ratings even on the old inline 6.  

An older Cherokee, "XJ" are short wheel base and pretty light.  They have guts and can pull a load but I could see how they wouldn't do well controlling a trailer when braking.  

 

I think it's pretty reasonable to say that the minivan route is going to git'r'done, but that it might be unsafe, or it might toast the transmission, or it might carry a lot of liability, or it might get a collision claim rejected.  One of them is enough exposure for most here to move along to other choices.

 

What about renting a car the few times you tow, or grabbing a uhaul or home Depot truck and having a follow car?  If my memory serves there are actually quite a few folks here that do this.  

The Grand Cherokee has a 5000 pound towing capacity with the 3.6 V6, and a 7200 pound rating with any other engine (3.0 ED, 5.7, 6.4 or 6.2).  They aren't even in the same ball park as a mini van when talking about towing capacity.

If someone is trying to "make it work" with an existing vehicle, maybe you could argue "sure, give it a try".  But it seems very silly to me to go out and buy a vehicle that the company that make it says it isn't up for the job.  Especially when there are TONS of alternatives that would be well matched for the boat, with as good or better driving characteristics as a mini van.

[BoatFlyRide]

I have to say I wasn’t expecting this many responses!

i haven’t purchased anything yet.

The only reason I even thought about this is because the Highlander and Sienna share the following:

Brakes- right down to the individual part number.

Engine- Almost no difference.

Transmission- Almost no difference.

Platform: Same basic platform on the 2019 Highlander and 2020 Sienna.

The only real difference is the rear suspension.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by BoatFlyRide

[Eagleboy99]

10 hours ago, RyanB said:

I guess I am not up on acronyms.  What is a "GC"?

And where are you getting a 3000 pound boat?  Because once you add the trailer and gear, it will be between 4000 - 4500 pounds (or more).

Grand Caravan.  No way a Respone LX on a single is 4500 lbs "or more".  

[RyanB]

19 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Grand Caravan.  No way a Respone LX on a single is 4500 lbs "or more".  

I’m not sure when the Grand Caravan came into the equation. Because that wouldn’t be an adequate tow vehicle either. 
 

And the best way to know what the Response weighs is to actually take it somewhere and get the weight. Both total weight and tongue weight (because you are probably also going to run out of payload on a Minivan). My personal experience is that the manufacturers published weight isn’t accurate. It wasn’t accurate on my old Crownline. It isn’t accurate on my Ranger. And it isn’t accurate on my LSV. Case in point, I believe the LSV had a catalog weight of 3900 pounds. I weighed it before I bought it. No gear. No lead. Less than 1/4 tank of fuel. Boat and trailer were about 6100 pounds.  Adding fuel alone pushes the weight up to 6500 pounds.

I will agree with the earlier post that the response will be closer to 5000 pounds than 3000 pounds when it is ready to go to the lake. But there is one way to prove this point. And it isn’t arguing on the internet. 

[Eagleboy99]

2 hours ago, RyanB said:

I’m not sure when the Grand Caravan came into the equation.

'cause we were talking minvans and a GC is  a minivan.  I'll see if there is a scale handy to me next time I drop the boat in.  As for you LSV, if 3900 was for boat AND trailer than is a typo.  Boat alone; ok - add 1500 for the trailer (minimum) and couple hundred more for gas and you get 5600 lbs.  Close to your wieghed weight.

[RyanB]

Catalog weights don’t include the trailer. 

[gregtay]

20 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Catalog weights don’t include the trailer. 

or the tower, speakers, stereo, racks, bimini, batteries, seats. :-O  (kidding of course.. but not really)  It seems like the published weight is often the fiberglass and engine... it is never even close to what someone hooks up to the back of their truck.  I don't really know the reason why boat manufactures are a bit more communicative about the true weights.. like publishing average total (on trailer, ready to go) weight, average tongue weight, etc.  My guess is it would lead to fewer sales when people looked and saw the numbers and realized their current suv can't tow it.  Most people probably buy the boat and after a week or so realize they need a bigger truck.  I know i did that once... I had a little 19' boat and I traded it in for a 23' crownline (big heavy boat!)  Picked it up with my 5000# rated 4Runner thinking I was okay, specs said the boat weight 4600, figured that would work.  White knuckling the steering wheel and dragging the a** of the 4Runner on the asphalt on my way home from the dealer was all it took for me to run out and trade the 4Runner in for a Tundra the next day.  If I had seen the true weight of the Crownline before handing over the cash I am not sure I would have done the deal.

[jjackkrash]

28 minutes ago, gregtay said:

I don't really know the reason why boat manufactures are a bit more communicative about the true weights.. like publishing average total (on trailer, ready to go) weight, average tongue weight, etc.  

One reason is every boat that comes off the line weighs a different amount (although the layup process is much better these days, I suspect there is still some variation in the amount of material sprayed and placed in the boat), especially when considering options.  The brochure lists one number for weight and I'm sure its on the light end of the range of possibilities when options are figured in.  The only way to really know what your boat weighs running down the road is to weigh it.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by jjackkrash

[jjackkrash]

At 5:58-7:00 minutes, for example, they show the chopper gun and glass-layup process.  I'm sure they have quality-control checks to try and keep it uniform, but it is human beings pulling the trigger on the chopper gun and filling in gaps and human beings applying polyester resin to 8 layers of hand laid glass fiber weave sheets.  Same with the gel coat being sprayed; and by the way I'm told metal flake has extra layers of gel, so that is another variation on weight.  I'd be curious what the actual margin is on weight variance, but it is probably more than most people would expect.  Having worked in a glass shop, I can also say that a hung-over employee on the chopper gun can make a big difference on how much is applied. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by jjackkrash

[Eagleboy99]

I'm too lazy to run the numbers, but  anextra 1/4 or 3/8" is not oing to add that much weight overall.

[ahopkins22LSV]

The biggest factor in the weight difference from posted to actuals is the tower, stereo, batteries and any other options that are added. Responses typically don’t have towers or huge stereos so they difference is going to be less. Also, the factory, as of my tour in March, does frequent depth checks on the glass thickness. Is it full proof? No, but I saw them taking a lot of checks per hull. They are going to want to to be as consistent as possible, for material costs alone. 

[jjackkrash]

44 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

The biggest factor in the weight difference from posted to actuals is the tower, stereo, batteries and any other options that are added. Responses typically don’t have towers or huge stereos so they difference is going to be less. Also, the factory, as of my tour in March, does frequent depth checks on the glass thickness. Is it full proof? No, but I saw them taking a lot of checks per hull. They are going to want to to be as consistent as possible, for material costs alone. 

No disagreement.  (But having worked in a glass shop building boats, I am willing to bet there are outlier boats that get more extra material than you might expect).  But my point generally is the one number listed in the dryweight section of a marketing brochure really is just an approximation, and on every boat (and travel trailer/fifth wheel) I've ever owned the number has been pretty light compared to an actual scale weight running down the road.