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Piggyback Options - More Alternatives


WooPig

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Hey Everyone,  

I recently became the new owner of an 08 VLX, and have been looking over some options for the Piggyback system.  Yes, I know there are a lot of threads floating around, but hopefully you all can tell I have done my fair share of searching and reading.  I believe the most popular kit that everyone uses is a little over-priced for the functionality (specifically draining issues), and am trying to decide between a couple DIY options modeled off of the Bake's and super piggyback systems.  

 

Option 1 - Baseline

Here is the option that I think would work best, but the directional valve can be pricey, and it requires a manual assist to turn the valve once the factory tank is full.

Ggr8bZ.png

 

Option 2: Wye Fitting with stock vent line

As an alternative, I was looking to use a Wye with it turned a certain direction to encourage the Factory tank to fill first, and then push flow to the new ballast bag.  My only concern is that some water would continue to push out the vent line while the new (top) bag is filling.

X4haVM.png

 

Option 3: Wye Fitting with Vent/Drain between bags

The final option is similar to Option 2, but the vent line would run between the bags so any overflow would run to the top bag before venting.  This would also rely on draining through this line.  My only issue with this system is the inability to run 2 drain pumps if the new bag only has 3 ports.  Any ideas??

5kHw73.png

 

I would appreciate any feedback from people familiar with these systems, or anyone who has tried something similar.  Its only looking like $100-$150 in parts per side with the extra drain pump, and I may upgrade the fill pumps to 1100's and use the 800's for the new drain pumps.

Edited by WooPig
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  • 2 weeks later...

So.....The new WM system is different and said to be quicker drain times than the older double drain pump system.  I have Fly High bags with 3/4 fittings and their "new" system is only for the 1" WM bags....so I watch this video....drew up the diagram and ordered the parts to make my own.  Note that is uses all 4 ports of the bag and dual gravity drains.538879459_WMpiggybackdwg.thumb.jpg.f4d4b285f962c2fbdd86d886b98064e3.jpg  It's $150 total for both rear lockers....so I figured worth a try.   Parts are in transit and I will keep you posted.

Good Vid (your boat):

Crappy Diagram...

 

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On 5/19/2020 at 3:32 PM, goodmatt78 said:

So.....The new WM system is different and said to be quicker drain times than the older double drain pump system.  I have Fly High bags with 3/4 fittings and their "new" system is only for the 1" WM bags....so I watch this video....drew up the diagram and ordered the parts to make my own.  Note that is uses all 4 ports of the bag and dual gravity drains.  It's $150 total for both rear lockers....so I figured worth a try.   Parts are in transit and I will keep you posted.

 

Do your Fly High Bags have 4 ports?  It seems like the second Y is a bit redundant, but definitely share your results!

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I got one bag done today.  10 min fill and similar drain.   I'm going to play with flipping the wyes because the bag is filling at the same time as the tank.   I prefer that the tank fills first.

Happy so far..... Took me a long time but that is because I am custom making mine.... Not the WM prefab.  The sac did completely drain.  I spent a decent amount of time making sure my drain lines were flat.... So that helps.

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I switch around the Wye's and finished the other side.   I am thrilled with the results.   10 minutes.....drain is faster than fill and the bags go super flat.     There is no way reversibles would have been worth it with these results.  Let me know if you have questions as there are a couple things to make sure...

1) the drain line to the rear bag is routed as flat as possible.

2) the "Link" from the hard tank fill to the bag front drain needs to be flat as possible.

3) I am NOT using a check on the vent and there is no need, just route as high as possible.

The key to this design is having 2 fill and 2 drain lines running at same time.  The WM design filled the bags and tank at the same.  Now, the tank fills full and the bag is only about 1/8 full.

 

Good Luck!

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@goodmatt78 Nothing like making your own system with better results.  Those times sound great!  I've been trying to hunt down a few used 750's. 

 

Do you think the 2nd Wye is necessary?  Based on your diagram above, I'm assuming you flipped the first Wye to promote flow into the stock tank first?  Did you adjust the second one?

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27 minutes ago, WooPig said:

@goodmatt78 Nothing like making your own system with better results.  Those times sound great!  I've been trying to hunt down a few used 750's. 

 

Do you think the 2nd Wye is necessary?  Based on your diagram above, I'm assuming you flipped the first Wye to promote flow into the stock tank first?  Did you adjust the second one?

Not to but in... Mine is without the 2nd Y... the issue is when filling it is forcing up from bottom (which is increasing your fill time). I was thinking about changing my fill to top of bag, but the 2nd Y makes total sense. Water will travel the path of less resistance, after bottom fills, it will fill faster to top of bag. Then you have 2 drain ports (gravity). If you went to one one Y top of tank you will lose drain time as now you are only draining from port instead of two... having 2 Ys will increase your fill time and drain times. 

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9 hours ago, WooPig said:

@goodmatt78 Nothing like making your own system with better results.  Those times sound great!  I've been trying to hunt down a few used 750's. 

 

Do you think the 2nd Wye is necessary?  Based on your diagram above, I'm assuming you flipped the first Wye to promote flow into the stock tank first?  Did you adjust the second one?

Correct..... Flipped the 1st one as you said.   Honestly, it performs so much better than expected....I am glad I didn't add larger hose or more pumps.

 

Yes 2nd wye is super important.  It "links" you tank and bag.  This line must lay super flat.  It acts as both send drain and 2nd fill once the stock tank is full.   

The diagrams I saw of the original design with 1 wye only used 3 bag ports.... This one uses 4 and vents really well with no trapped air.

Edited by goodmatt78
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On 5/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, goodmatt78 said:

Correct..... Flipped the 1st one as you said.   Honestly, it performs so much better than expected....I am glad I didn't add larger hose or more pumps.

 

Yes 2nd wye is super important.  It "links" you tank and bag.  This line must lay super flat.  It acts as both send drain and 2nd fill once the stock tank is full.   

The diagrams I saw of the original design with 1 wye only used 3 bag ports.... This one uses 4 and vents really well with no trapped air.

Making me spend more money.. I am already over budget for the year ;) 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/27/2020 at 8:06 AM, goodmatt78 said:

Correct..... Flipped the 1st one as you said.   Honestly, it performs so much better than expected....I am glad I didn't add larger hose or more pumps.

 

Yes 2nd wye is super important.  It "links" you tank and bag.  This line must lay super flat.  It acts as both send drain and 2nd fill once the stock tank is full.   

The diagrams I saw of the original design with 1 wye only used 3 bag ports.... This one uses 4 and vents really well with no trapped air.

I've followed most of this and hope to follow in your footsteps.

One of my fill pumps failed so I may just replace both with 1100's at the same time (the 1100's are cheaper than the 800's :dontknow:)

 

3 questions:

Your diagram looks like you used the of vent and attached it to the bottom of the new bag (it's labeled "OF" ?)

The first wye you flipped around, which direction is the base of the wye now? (that's you only change to your diagram?)

When you say the hoses must sit super flat in the locker. I assume you mean they must be flat under the bag and not up the sides of the locker.

 

Parts list looks like:  (just for one side)

2 wyes's

1 bag

4 connections for the bag

3/4" hose (dependent on your bag) (Length?)

hose clamps

 

 

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My hoses all go around my bags and not under.   I did drill the holes to route the link hose just like the WM video.

OF means over flow or vent.

For the wyes.... Just make all the direct paths go to the stock tank and the other go to the bags.... So one of the splits is the inlet.

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1 hour ago, Brichter14 said:

This spring I decided I was over the piggy back system and just removed the hard tanks and put bigger bags in the trunk couldn’t be happier. 

You definitely had an inferior setup.   Mine works exactly the same as a single bag.

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16 hours ago, Brichter14 said:

This spring I decided I was over the piggy back system and just removed the hard tanks and put bigger bags in the trunk couldn’t be happier. 

I assume you can remove the floor of the locket to do so.

Did you just leave the floor out and have a bag from the hull to the top of the locker?

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/11/2020 at 6:23 AM, goodmatt78 said:

I have 750s in my piggy back system and still store vests and misc stuff on top when full.

This is great info Matt, thank you for posting. I'm going to set my own system up with 750 Fat Sac's as well. I just want to confirm that you used 3/4" hose and 3/4" flow rite connectors with 3/4" Fly High bag adapters correct? Nothing is bigger than 3/4" with the stock hoses and fly high bags correct? 

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7 hours ago, dcwilson said:

This is great info Matt, thank you for posting. I'm going to set my own system up with 750 Fat Sac's as well. I just want to confirm that you used 3/4" hose and 3/4" flow rite connectors with 3/4" Fly High bag adapters correct? Nothing is bigger than 3/4" with the stock hoses and fly high bags correct? 

That is correct....i duplicated the new WM version that uses all 4 ports on the bags.   It drains faster than my middle mls.

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4 hours ago, goodmatt78 said:

That is correct....i duplicated the new WM version that uses all 4 ports on the bags.   It drains faster than my middle mls.

Awesome, thanks for confirming that. Wow really!? I was just looking at my system and considering upgrading everything to 1 1/8 hose and pirahna 1100's but if it drains that quickly with the stock 3/4 then it definitely wouldn't be worth upgrading. Have you had any issues not running a check valve on the vent line? 

Edited by dcwilson
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8 hours ago, dcwilson said:

Awesome, thanks for confirming that. Wow really!? I was just looking at my system and considering upgrading everything to 1 1/8 hose and pirahna 1100's but if it drains that quickly with the stock 3/4 then it definitely wouldn't be worth upgrading. Have you had any issues not running a check valve on the vent line? 

Zero.... Just run the vent line as high as possible and since the 750 bags are lower than the gunnel, they don't passively drain.

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4 hours ago, goodmatt78 said:

Zero.... Just run the vent line as high as possible and since the 750 bags are lower than the gunnel, they don't passively drain.

Great! Thanks again.

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Guess I am lost and not following what you did. I see the first drawing, but then you 

On 5/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, goodmatt78 said:

Correct..... Flipped the 1st one as you said.   Honestly, it performs so much better than expected....I am glad I didn't add larger hose or more pumps.

 

Yes 2nd wye is super important.  It "links" you tank and bag.  This line must lay super flat.  It acts as both send drain and 2nd fill once the stock tank is full.   

The diagrams I saw of the original design with 1 wye only used 3 bag ports.... This one uses 4 and vents really well with no trapped air.

Guess I am lost and not following what you did. I see the first drawing, but then you said you moved one of the wye's.

Can you attach your final routing schematic?

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