wakefoil with a small wave

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, kleyp said:

how fast are folks going with the mini-wave?

it's really dependent on your foil.  some like to go faster, some slower.  I'm on the infinity 76 and surfing at 12.6.

[Raleigh]

44 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

it's really dependent on your foil.  some like to go faster, some slower.  I'm on the infinity 76 and surfing at 12.6.

What’s your weight and height? 

[shawndoggy]

19 minutes ago, Raleigh said:

What’s your weight and height? 

5’10” /175ish

[Raleigh]

20 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

5’10” /175ish

Cool. Thanks!  I’m 5’11” and 205ish. 176 is near the upper limits for surfing. I’d love to try it on a small wake just for fuel economy. 
 

What size mast and position do you have the 76 at? 

[shawndoggy]

Just now, Raleigh said:

Cool. Thanks!  I’m 5’11” and 205ish. 176 is near the upper limits for surfing. I’d love to try it on a small wake just for fuel economy. 
 

What size mast and position do you have the 76 at? 

24" mast, set all the way back in the tracks and fuselage is in position A.  Basically the "beginnerish" setup.  At 205 I would think that the 76 would still have plenty of push.  I need to stand with an exageratedly wide stance to have enough weight on the front to keep the foil down.  I'd expect you could have your front foot a little farther back and get the same lift.  and also obviously push the mast forward and/or move to position B on the fuselage.

I've seen the push that @isellacuras gets on his 99 with 28 inch mast  ... that looks like a lot of fun.  I'd really like to try a 28" mast but this foil is also a "boat foil" that my family uses, so I can't really make a bunch of more aggressive changes unless they also work for the lighter folks in the crew.  The 28 would be nice to keep some additional height while making more aggressive carves / bottom turns.

[isellacuras]

59 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

24" mast, set all the way back in the tracks and fuselage is in position A.  Basically the "beginnerish" setup.  At 205 I would think that the 76 would still have plenty of push.  I need to stand with an exageratedly wide stance to have enough weight on the front to keep the foil down.  I'd expect you could have your front foot a little farther back and get the same lift.  and also obviously push the mast forward and/or move to position B on the fuselage.

I've seen the push that @isellacuras gets on his 99 with 28 inch mast  ... that looks like a lot of fun.  I'd really like to try a 28" mast but this foil is also a "boat foil" that my family uses, so I can't really make a bunch of more aggressive changes unless they also work for the lighter folks in the crew.  The 28 would be nice to keep some additional height while making more aggressive carves / bottom turns.

I ride an 84 but yes, it has tons of lift to easily fly my 300+# heft. I foil with a lightly ballasted boat. I don’t run near the weight I do surfing. I like the 28” mast. I dont find it to be much different than the 24 but the extra 4 inches is definitely more forgiving and allows a longer pump stroke. I rode with my mast slightly forward on the board and I put my back foot above or just in front of the mast. That made a big difference in the stress on my legs trying to stay balanced. It also allows for a little narrower stance. I’m still learning with every set. 

[xraydoc]

I have been surfing for 5 years can say that to me, the foil is just WAY more fun. To me it is like flying and snow skiing deep powder at the same time. With the right equipment and driver I would think anyone that can surf reasonably well can learn to foil. Best part is that it can be done behind ANY boat since you can ride the second wave back. I routinely foil behind my Malibu Response TXi slalom boat. No ballast or wedge. Just set it at 11mph and go foil. Plenty of wave. Even my 11y\o daughter does it. Most wakefoilers I know are so excited about the sport they are happy to teach others and introduce them to the sport. 

[malibudog]

The biggest hesitation I have on trying this is how likely are you to get hurt.  I ride with a bunch of surfers who are age 55 to 70.  Surfing is appealing because it lets you progress, does not require high levels of fitness, and the possibilities of getting injured, even if you aren't in great shape, are really low.  When you add a foil on a long mast, it looks like it would be exceptionally easy to kick the board backward, and land on the foil.  Or plant the nose of the board, and have the foil flip over on top of you.  I know that once you got comfortable on the foil board, these things become fairly unlikely, but it sounds like it could take a while to get the hang of this, and the threat of getting injured during that period has always been a deterrent.  

Secondly, if I am completely honest, surfing can become a little boring to watch from the boat, even when people are at the level where they can carve extensively, cut, do 360's etc.  This looks sort of like it could be really boring for the people in the boat, unless maybe you get several boards and ride together, and the cost of that is fairly high.  It also looks like having multiple boards on a boat could be very cumbersome.  It also looks a little like once you learn to ride, there is not a lot of room for progression?

So it may sound like I am just making stuff up to discourage myself from trying this, but it really does look like it could be fun.  Can anyone help set me straight on these issues and help convince me that it is worth the investment.  And is there an ideal set up to buy for learning?  Thanks for any input you can offer, particularly on the possibility of getting hurt while learning.  

 

 

[xraydoc]

1 hour ago, malibudog said:

The biggest hesitation I have on trying this is how likely are you to get hurt.  I ride with a bunch of surfers who are age 55 to 70.  Surfing is appealing because it lets you progress, does not require high levels of fitness, and the possibilities of getting injured, even if you aren't in great shape, are really low.  When you add a foil on a long mast, it looks like it would be exceptionally easy to kick the board backward, and land on the foil.  Or plant the nose of the board, and have the foil flip over on top of you.  I know that once you got comfortable on the foil board, these things become fairly unlikely, but it sounds like it could take a while to get the hang of this, and the threat of getting injured during that period has always been a deterrent.  

Secondly, if I am completely honest, surfing can become a little boring to watch from the boat, even when people are at the level where they can carve extensively, cut, do 360's etc.  This looks sort of like it could be really boring for the people in the boat, unless maybe you get several boards and ride together, and the cost of that is fairly high.  It also looks like having multiple boards on a boat could be very cumbersome.  It also looks a little like once you learn to ride, there is not a lot of room for progression?

So it may sound like I am just making stuff up to discourage myself from trying this, but it really does look like it could be fun.  Can anyone help set me straight on these issues and help convince me that it is worth the investment.  And is there an ideal set up to buy for learning?  Thanks for any input you can offer, particularly on the possibility of getting hurt while learning.  

 

 

I did worry about injury in the beginning and actually tried a foil two summers ago and gave up on it simply for the fear of being hurt. Most of the horror stories you read about are people on air chairs or strapped in to a foil board doing high speed, high energy tricks or those out in the ocean surf. At the low speeds we foil behind a boat, in my opinion, the injury potential just goes way down. I learned at 48 y\o and taught my fiance, sister, and 4 kids all without issue.  Helmets and wetsuits help in the beginning (especially for the kids) as most of the risk to me seems in the initial phase when you are learning to get up and potentially getting pulled over the board toward the foil. Once you get past the getting up part 99.9% of the time when you fall, you go one way and the foil goes the other. Certainly injury can happen but I think only marginally more so than with a surf board. 

As far as the boards on the boat, they are cumbersome but with the right racks really not an issue at all.

I can promise you, once you start to foil you will wonder why you didn't start sooner and the cost of the gear will seem like a small price to pay for all the fun you are having. 

To me, ideal learning set up for adults that allows progression without buying a whole new setup is the Armstrong cf1550\72 mast\60 fuse\cf300 tail and a board somewhere in the 4.5 to 5ft range. You can then mix\match armstrong parts as you progress. For kids I would start with a cf1200 wing and 60cm mast. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by xraydoc

[dalt1]

3 hours ago, xraydoc said:

I did worry about injury in the beginning and actually tried a foil two summers ago and gave up on it simply for the fear of being hurt. Most of the horror stories you read about are people on air chairs or strapped in to a foil board doing high speed, high energy tricks or those out in the ocean surf. At the low speeds we foil behind a boat, in my opinion, the injury potential just goes way down. I learned at 48 y\o and taught my fiance, sister, and 4 kids all without issue.  Helmets and wetsuits help in the beginning (especially for the kids) as most of the risk to me seems in the initial phase when you are learning to get up and potentially getting pulled over the board toward the foil. Once you get past the getting up part 99.9% of the time when you fall, you go one way and the foil goes the other. Certainly injury can happen but I think only marginally more so than with a surf board. 

As far as the boards on the boat, they are cumbersome but with the right racks really not an issue at all.

I can promise you, once you start to foil you will wonder why you didn't start sooner and the cost of the gear will seem like a small price to pay for all the fun you are having. 

To me, ideal learning set up for adults that allows progression without buying a whole new setup is the Armstrong cf1550\72 mast\60 fuse\cf300 tail and a board somewhere in the 4.5 to 5ft range. You can then mix\match armstrong parts as you progress. For kids I would start with a cf1200 wing and 60cm mast. 

Strapped into the Airchair keeps it from hitting you. Have never had a Sit down foil injury from it hitting you. 20 years and several injuries from a surf board hits.

[shawndoggy]

I can’t speak to what’s boring from the boat, but I can definitely say that as compared to foiling, surfing has become terribly boring for me while behind the boat.  I’ve basically quit surfing because it feels like I am wasting a perfectly good set.  

[shawndoggy]

as far as tricks and progression, here are a few examples of things you can work on when the feeling of flying through the air on a magic carpet is no longer enough (I can't do ANY of this stuff, but once I get a nicer foil, I think some of these will be within reach):

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by shawndoggy

[shawndoggy]

Finally got out on my new rig last weekend.  Getting up on the small board and higher aspect wing kicked my butt on the first few tries, and I'm still not rock solid as with the slingshot setup.

(Surf Right / no ballast / 12mph / 3 adults, 400lbs lead, and a 20lb dog in the boat)

[CaptainMorgan]

22 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Finally got out on my new rig last weekend.  Getting up on the small board and higher aspect wing kicked my butt on the first few tries, and I'm still not rock solid as with the slingshot setup.

(Surf Right / no ballast / 12mph / 3 adults, 400lbs lead, and a 20lb dog in the boat)

so what is the "new rig?"  looks like something Armstrong.  any background on why you switched/upgraded?

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

so what is the "new rig?"  looks like something Armstrong.  any background on why you switched/upgraded?

yes, 1550v2, 28" mast, 232 rear stab.  I just wanted the corvette vs. the camry.  Turns out corvettes are a little more temperamental! 

[mxmark4]

I just picked up a shorter mast for my slingshot to try and help with riding. Will reserve my 28 in mast for advancing my skills once I learn to ride better 

[Raleigh]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:11 PM, shawndoggy said:

yes, 1550v2, 28" mast, 232 rear stab.  I just wanted the corvette vs. the camry.  Turns out corvettes are a little more temperamental! 

Great setup. My current favorite is with the 50 fuse, 1.5 degree shims, and Flying V stab! 

[shawndoggy]

27 minutes ago, Raleigh said:

Great setup. My current favorite is with the 50 fuse, 1.5 degree shims, and Flying V stab! 

I shimmed my mast this last time out and it REALLY helped with breaching on startup. 

[shawndoggy]

 

[mxmark4]

@shawndoggyso Im having trouble feeling the push I think. Sometimes I get that boost and I shoot out into the flat but comin back into the wave Im not sure where to stop or how to catch it again so I can ride out again. Im still on the long line, and I am actually starting to pump a little bit, still on my shorty mast for now. Have to say that was worth the hundred dollars to actually start riding and having some consistency. Now just trying to learn how to get that push so I can get slack in my line. 

[martinarcher]

34 minutes ago, mxmark4 said:

@shawndoggyso Im having trouble feeling the push I think. Sometimes I get that boost and I shoot out into the flat but comin back into the wave Im not sure where to stop or how to catch it again so I can ride out again. Im still on the long line, and I am actually starting to pump a little bit, still on my shorty mast for now. Have to say that was worth the hundred dollars to actually start riding and having some consistency. Now just trying to learn how to get that push so I can get slack in my line. 

You'll get it, it does take some time exploring the second wave to learn where the spots with the most push are.  If you are on top of the second wave be sure to shorten your rope a bit to get in front of it.  A good indicator of the foil catching the wave is a bit of an increase in speed and the foil beginning to rise.

[shawndoggy]

If you are on the 18” mast I’d just try to get the feel long line. Once you can ride on rope tension consistently, switch back to the taller mast. The short mast gives very little room for error once you start getting some push. 

[mxmark4]

Long mast is comin out this week now that I have gotten the feel and ability to pump some. Im also riding with no ballast and only whatever lead is in the boat. 

[shawndoggy]

The advice is got was to try to ride the bubble line on the second wake. As @martinarcher says you need to adjust your rope (and/or speed) to be slightly in front of the second wake (not on top / not in the trough). 

[martinarcher]

24 minutes ago, mxmark4 said:

Long mast is comin out this week now that I have gotten the feel and ability to pump some. Im also riding with no ballast and only whatever lead is in the boat. 

I'd throw a bag in the boat as well and see if that helps.  I'm riding the foil with our Sunsetter slammed.  I'm running about 1400lbs of total ballast and the wedge with a surf gate out. More than I need on the foil but boy it makes it more fun!