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New amp for 2019 Sub


ctvandy23

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Trying to improve my stock sub quality as easy as possible on my 19 LSV.  At this point I think I will try changing the amp first and tune it properly.  Has anyone simply swapped amps and retuned?  If so what amp used and what are your thoughts? 

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I’ll sell you the HD750/1 out of my boat. It’s not going to have a place in my new build. It’s been an amazing amp for my 12W6v3. 

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@ctvandy23, you should buy Slurpee’s amp and the extra box I have cut out for an LSV helm. 

Try that setup with the factory sub. It will be a huge improvement. If you still want more  then you can upgrade the sub. 20% off at Earmark now... the 12W6 will never be cheaper than right now  

7ADDB32B-D3EE-45A2-B4B3-E3970627B335.jpeg

Edited by IXFE
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Certainly a plan and thanks for the offers!  Just waiting on COVID restrictions to see what the boating season up here is going to look like.  Does the old box come out fairly easy?  

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1 hour ago, ctvandy23 said:

@IXFE disregard last question I went back and viewed your last years rip and replace thread and saw how it was done.

Yeah, turns out my "let's take a grinder to it" approach probably isn't the best method!  

@G Spot did the same project on his 2019 25 LSV last year, only he was able to take the box out much easier than I did.  If I recall correctly, he unscrewed the box from the floor first, which allowed him to rotate it in the cavity enough to get to and remove all the screws.  Then it came out piece by piece.  Much more civilized.  

Do you have a heater in your boat?

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9 hours ago, IXFE said:

Yeah, turns out my "let's take a grinder to it" approach probably isn't the best method!  

@G Spot did the same project on his 2019 25 LSV last year, only he was able to take the box out much easier than I did.  If I recall correctly, he unscrewed the box from the floor first, which allowed him to rotate it in the cavity enough to get to and remove all the screws.  Then it came out piece by piece.  Much more civilized.  

Do you have a heater in your boat?

Funny you should ask, having a heater installed this month!  I really think my first step is to replace the current dsp amp with another 6 channel amp that I can tune.  See how that sounds and then go from there!  I’m trying to make this as easy as possible and still gain some improvement.  I also have to keep the “captain” of the boat happy,  if you know what I mean!  Replacing an amp can easily be disguised as a necessity...ha ha

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On 5/7/2020 at 5:16 PM, ctvandy23 said:

Funny you should ask, having a heater installed this month!  I really think my first step is to replace the current dsp amp with another 6 channel amp that I can tune.  See how that sounds and then go from there!  I’m trying to make this as easy as possible and still gain some improvement.  I also have to keep the “captain” of the boat happy,  if you know what I mean!  Replacing an amp can easily be disguised as a necessity...ha ha

I have a 17 22mxz with same system you have, not sure if newer versions were released between 17 and 19 but the factory WS sub is good for 500 rms and 1000 peak. I've already replaced the DSP syndx2 with a WS HP SYNDX 2.3, I'm running 4 rev 8s on the tower and it was a huge improvement over DSP amp after tuned with more power to the REV's. I pulled my SUB out of the box and measured internal volume and it's around 1.2 cubic ft. I must of got lucky because the box was put together very well and sealed nicely. I'm about to swap the DSP syndx6 with a WS syndx6 and tune sub and interior speakers. The DSP tunes are not bad but they are canned/conservative tunes and won't please everyone. I'll let you know the difference after swapping and tuning new amp. I'm sure you've researched specs on that amp and is plenty of power for the speakers and sub we already have in our boats.

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56 minutes ago, st22eve said:

I have a 17 22mxz with same system you have, not sure if newer versions were released between 17 and 19 but the factory WS sub is good for 500 rms and 1000 peak. I've already replaced the DSP syndx2 with a WS HP SYNDX 2.3, I'm running 4 rev 8s on the tower and it was a huge improvement over DSP amp after tuned with more power to the REV's. I pulled my SUB out of the box and measured internal volume and it's around 1.2 cubic ft. I must of got lucky because the box was put together very well and sealed nicely. I'm about to swap the DSP syndx6 with a WS syndx6 and tune sub and interior speakers. The DSP tunes are not bad but they are canned/conservative tunes and won't please everyone. I'll let you know the difference after swapping and tuning new amp. I'm sure you've researched specs on that amp and is plenty of power for the speakers and sub we already have in our boats.

Thanks I would appreciate that!  

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Has anyone confirmed that replacing the factory wetsounds sub amp will increase the performance. I’ve been searching the forums and see a lot of recommendations that upgrading the amp will help the sub but can not find where anyone has said that only changing the amp actually works. I’m only finding examples where swapping the amp, box and sub have been successful. I’m hoping to get more bass with minimal work. I know I know, do it right or not at all, but you know recession and all that. 🤪

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On 5/8/2020 at 7:35 PM, st22eve said:

I have a 17 22mxz with same system you have, not sure if newer versions were released between 17 and 19 but the factory WS sub is good for 500 rms and 1000 peak. I've already replaced the DSP syndx2 with a WS HP SYNDX 2.3, I'm running 4 rev 8s on the tower and it was a huge improvement over DSP amp after tuned with more power to the REV's. I pulled my SUB out of the box and measured internal volume and it's around 1.2 cubic ft. I must of got lucky because the box was put together very well and sealed nicely. I'm about to swap the DSP syndx6 with a WS syndx6 and tune sub and interior speakers. The DSP tunes are not bad but they are canned/conservative tunes and won't please everyone. I'll let you know the difference after swapping and tuning new amp. I'm sure you've researched specs on that amp and is plenty of power for the speakers and sub we already have in our boats.

The reason your subwoofer box is 1.2 is purely due to the fact that you have an MXZ and there is a lot more room beneath the helm. Go measure the same box in an LSV and you’ll find it’s only 0.87 cubic feet. 

See the pic comparison below... 

6CD37389-47F0-45F2-819F-3F3227FD1BC3.thumb.jpeg.13a7f6fa00b227f40d8a9369248ec9e0.jpeg

9F66B1A4-94E0-40E1-84DC-7129D3B028C4.thumb.jpeg.a515f2138c3dd94de070fe10e1dc46c9.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Captain007 said:

Has anyone confirmed that replacing the factory wetsounds sub amp will increase the performance. I’ve been searching the forums and see a lot of recommendations that upgrading the amp will help the sub but can not find where anyone has said that only changing the amp actually works. I’m only finding examples where swapping the amp, box and sub have been successful. I’m hoping to get more bass with minimal work. I know I know, do it right or not at all, but you know recession and all that. 🤪

Brother, I really want to tell you there is a magic pill.  But the truth is, the tooth fairy isn’t real. 

I swapped out my amp last year and it only made my factory sub sound worse. It accentuated the flaws of my tiny box, which in my case was mounted in such a way that it was making contact against the back side of the helm wall. Also, as shown above it was way undersized. 

In your case, you have a good size box, arguably perfect for a sealed 12. If I were you, I’d replace the amp and the woofer. Leave the box since it’s the right size (and the hardest to replace). Then see what you get. Idk... maybe I’m in the minority but I think the factory Revo 12 is junk.  Buy a JL 12W3 4ohm while the 20% off Earmark sale is going on. That’s like $240 for a better sub. Then sell the WS factory sub in CL or TMC classified. I bet you get 1/2 the $ back. 

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1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Brother, I really want to tell you there is a magic pill.  But the truth is, the tooth fairy isn’t real. 

I swapped out my amp last year and it only made my factory sub sound worse. It accentuated the flaws of my tiny box, which in my case was mounted in such a way that it was making contact against the back side of the helm wall. Also, as shown above it was way undersized. 

In your case, you have a good size box, arguably perfect for a sealed 12. If I were you, I’d replace the amp and the woofer. Leave the box since it’s the right size (and the hardest to replace). Then see what you get. Idk... maybe I’m in the minority but I think the factory Revo 12 is junk.  Buy a JL 12W3 4ohm while the 20% off Earmark sale is going on. That’s like $240 for a better sub. Then sell the WS factory sub in CL or TMC classified. I bet you get 1/2 the $ back. 

IXFE, I was afraid of that. I have a 2018 LSV so I’m sure I have the smaller box you mentioned above. I read your rip and replace post and was very impressed.  I would be confident in copying your sweet mod, but I am just not quite unhappy enough with the stock setup to go through all of that work. Lol. I was just looking for that magic pill to try and make it a little better. Do you suppose just making sure the box is sealed properly and adding some polyfil would help?

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I can't understand why malibu keeps using wetsounds as their go to. It must be a long contract they signed together. Or why isn't wetsounds giving us all advice on here to help their reputation. You know malibu and ws both read these forums. I'm embarrassed for both of them. The amounts we pay for these boats the sound systems should be good from the factory. I'm not even asking for great, just give me good. The 12" sub in my 19 24mxz barely makes a sound. Has anyone thought of going smaller sub to get better air space with a ported box? They have 8" subs nowadays that are awesome. I don't care if they are "marine" subwoofers or not. If you replace a $150 8" sub every year it really doesn't matter right? Its a tank of gas in cost. I have a single 6.5" sub in my f350 that sounds awesome. I'm thinking about going smaller and ported.

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1 hour ago, Captain007 said:

IXFE, I was afraid of that. I have a 2018 LSV so I’m sure I have the smaller box you mentioned above. I read your rip and replace post and was very impressed.  I would be confident in copying your sweet mod, but I am just not quite unhappy enough with the stock setup to go through all of that work. Lol. I was just looking for that magic pill to try and make it a little better. Do you suppose just making sure the box is sealed properly and adding some polyfil would help?

Sorry, I got your post confused with @st22eve

Polyfill should help. Stuff it!  Nothing you can do to seal the box better: it’s plastic so nothing really sticks to it. 

I still think you’d be smart to consider the upgrade to the JL 12W3. It’s $60 off thru the end of the month. And the factory sub will sell fast to reimburse yourself. Honestly, it will never be any cheaper than now. 

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1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Sorry, I got your post confused with @st22eve

Polyfill should help. Stuff it!  Nothing you can do to seal the box better: it’s plastic so nothing really sticks to it. 

I still think you’d be smart to consider the upgrade to the JL 12W3. It’s $60 off thru the end of the month. And the factory sub will sell fast to reimburse yourself. Honestly, it will never be any cheaper than now. 

Do you think the JL sub and new amp with the existing box will be much of an improvement?  Appreciate your help. 

Edited by Captain007
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33 minutes ago, Captain007 said:

Do you think the JL sub and new amp with the existing box will be much of an improvement?  Appreciate your help. 

Yes. And poly fill will help “trick” the sub into thinking it’s a bigger box. 

 

83FB2E05-8E2F-4B58-8B10-D97E8752A06D.gif

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10 hours ago, OKCmxz said:

I can't understand why malibu keeps using wetsounds as their go to. It must be a long contract they signed together. Or why isn't wetsounds giving us all advice on here to help their reputation. You know malibu and ws both read these forums. I'm embarrassed for both of them. The amounts we pay for these boats the sound systems should be good from the factory. I'm not even asking for great, just give me good. The 12" sub in my 19 24mxz barely makes a sound. Has anyone thought of going smaller sub to get better air space with a ported box? They have 8" subs nowadays that are awesome. I don't care if they are "marine" subwoofers or not. If you replace a $150 8" sub every year it really doesn't matter right? Its a tank of gas in cost. I have a single 6.5" sub in my f350 that sounds awesome. I'm thinking about going smaller and ported.

Low bass is all about displacing a great volume of air and the most efficient means of doing that is with greater radiating surface area, such as the largest woofer you can fit. An 8" subwoofer would have to travel (excursion) 2.5 times as far to equal the displacement of a 12", and that's really not possible. I promise you a smaller subwoofer, of any brand, in your boat is going in the wrong direction. It's hard to compare an open-field environment to the enclosed cabin of a vehicle. A vehicle has six boundaries wrapped around you and your speakers, with each additional boundary behaving like a doubling of power. Also, there's a 'cabin effect' in a vehicle where the bass rises @ + 12dB-per-octave as the frequency becomes lower. Contrast that to an open boat, with one plane/boundary only, where bass energy is free to dissipate and evaporate. So yeah, an 8" in a vehicle could potentially equal a 12" in a towboat, but that same 8" would in fact sound puny in the boat.

You are correct in that the subwoofer driver performance is absolutely enclosure-dependent. However, depending on the specific 12" model, it requires between a 1.0 and 1.2 cu.ft. net to obtain optimum performance, and that is doable. Once you get the right 12" sub driver and a very sturdy and airtight enclosure that problem is solved. Then the bottleneck moves elsewhere, whether that be the power or the tune.     

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100% agree with @OKCmxz, Malibu and Wetsounds can do better (especially on the sub). 

100% agree with @David, a boat is not a car. You will not be finding any 8” subwoofers in my boat! :lol:  Honestly if Malibu did this we’d all laugh. 

100% agree with @David on getting a good 1.0 - 1.2 (net) sealed box and a quality driver. That is the WHOLE premise to my last two sub builds (both fully documented on this forum). The difference is AMAZING. Stop complaining folks, and start building. It ain’t rocket science. 

Last comment on the factory setup, I can’t help but think that one of the limitations is using two bridged channels to power the sub as opposed to a dedicated, quality mono amp. Last year, in addition to the new box and JL 12W3, I also replaced the factory DSP SynDx6 with an aftermarket SynDx6. When I fired it all up, I was impressed with how good it sounded; honestly massive improvement, but not necessarily blown away (compared to my mono amp setups in prior boats). This year’s setup is a whole new level... two JL 12w6’s powered by dedicated JL HD1200/1.  I really shouldn’t be blown away. I mean, it’s still only 600 watts per woofer (same as the spec says for the bridged SynDx6), but honestly I wet myself when I fired this rig up. It’s that good. And it was only $3k and a little bit of my own elbow grease. Seriously, these boats are $150k nowadays. They deserve this type of setup. 

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["I can’t help but think that one of the limitations is using two bridged channels to power the sub as opposed to a dedicated, quality mono amp."]

If all other things are equal, a 2-channel amplifier running 2-ohms stereo or 4-ohms bridged versus a monoblock running at 2-ohms, should yield no discernable difference. If you detect a difference it would come under the heading of 'other things'.   

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Yeah I get the tuck versus boat argument. I guess what I was really trying to say is I don't think any of us should be having to do this. In the 90's the first thing we did was replace the factory head unit and put a sub in it because the factory systems were junk. Nowadays the factory sound systems are great and there is no need. My wife's expedition has a factory sub that actually sounds good. My xlt f350 doesn't come with a sub so I put a baby sub in it. I get the guys who want lots of bass, there will always be people wanting more. But from the factory they can do better i think. I get the system is probably de-tuned to avoid warranty claims. But maybe give the owners the option of cranking up the amps knowing we are voiding that portion of our warranty. Not sure if they can separate that part out from the rest of the boat. I mean if we cranked the factory amps and within one year the sub blows we wouldn't want a factory sub replacement anyway. 

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ahopkinsVTX
2 hours ago, OKCmxz said:

Yeah I get the tuck versus boat argument. I guess what I was really trying to say is I don't think any of us should be having to do this. In the 90's the first thing we did was replace the factory head unit and put a sub in it because the factory systems were junk. Nowadays the factory sound systems are great and there is no need. My wife's expedition has a factory sub that actually sounds good. My xlt f350 doesn't come with a sub so I put a baby sub in it. I get the guys who want lots of bass, there will always be people wanting more. But from the factory they can do better i think. I get the system is probably de-tuned to avoid warranty claims. But maybe give the owners the option of cranking up the amps knowing we are voiding that portion of our warranty. Not sure if they can separate that part out from the rest of the boat. I mean if we cranked the factory amps and within one year the sub blows we wouldn't want a factory sub replacement anyway

You may not, but I promise you would be in the minority. 98% of people would be standing on top of Facebook mountain demanding that Malibu replace it despite the fact that it blew because they turned it up to high or whatever. Even if they had a clause about voiding the warranty if modified or whatever.

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  • 1 month later...

So I did my first step sub improvement today...added some poly fill.  Sounded a bit better, but not great! Didn’t add a lot on the first go around,  so tomorrow I will try a bit more.  One thing to note and I really can’t believe, Is that the sub was secured to the box with only three screws.  All of which were fastened at the top of the sub, so the lower half of the sub was separated from the box!  I know...rip and replace, and I think that will happen, but in the meantime Malibu come on...three screws??  

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Fill the enclosure about 3/4 full of polly, but not packed in, just loose. 

If you did not install those missing screws, that likely leak is going to continue to hinder the performance. I think there should also be a rubber gasket between the basket and enclosure. 

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