New to me - 2001 Sunsetter LXI

[Bozboat]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:29 PM, Badger said:

OK, you guys convinced me not to fill my boat full of water.  I did have a productive day though as I swapped out the steering cable and installed Perfect Pass.  Both jobs went relatively well with a few small hiccups.  Also started a bit of wet sanding on the scratches and hope to dodge some raindrops tomorrow to finish the exterior.

on the perfect pass install, how did you handle the wiring harness on the servo motor?   I was thinking of a heat shield for the wiring harness or something other than zip ties to protect it.  Also, does your display show water temp of 122F?  I would like to turn off the water temp display and I would like to find the hard to find gray wire to add the tach function.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Bozboat

[Badger]

@Bozboat  I took some pictures today. I didn't do anything special for the servo harness. 
I was not very confident when I tapped into the gray wire for the tach but it appears to work.  Unfortunately my actual tach gauge is not working but I am now not sure if it worked when I bought the boat or not. I also had a mishap when I was trying to reconnect the battery and dropped a crescent wrench across both terminals and got a nice spark show for a second or two. I’m afraid I may have fried something at that point. Luckily the perfect pass seems to work as intended.
I forgot about the temp question when I was on the boat today. I do not think my display is showing any type of temperature though and I don’t recall reading about it in the manual. 

[UWSkier]

Looks good.  Any issue with cable binding with how you routed that?  My cable runs under the crossover hose between the fuel rails and my servo is on the big hose connecting the recirc pump to the tstat housing.  Works well there but the conduit does rub on the decorative shroud, so I took it off.

[twitchee2]

Can't believe i just saw this thread! awesome new boat.  here is my 01 SS LXI, i have done a number of mods to it, so feel free to look around and ask if you have any questions. I still need PP in mine...

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by twitchee2

[Badger]

On 5/26/2020 at 12:50 PM, UWSkier said:

Looks good.  Any issue with cable binding with how you routed that?  My cable runs under the crossover hose between the fuel rails and my servo is on the big hose connecting the recirc pump to the tstat housing.  Works well there but the conduit does rub on the decorative shroud, so I took it off.

@UWSkierNo issues as far as I know.  I've only pulled one person so far and will watch that.  I will say that the PP doesn't seem quite as responsive as my 2015 VTX but I assumed that was drive by cable issues versus drive by wire.  I'm curious what the speed does with a more aggressive skier pulling on the boat.

20 hours ago, twitchee2 said:

Can't believe i just saw this thread! awesome new boat.  here is my 01 SS LXI, i have done a number of mods to it, so feel free to look around and ask if you have any questions. I still need PP in mine...

@twitchee2 Lol, I got confused for a second with the almost identical thread titles.

[Badger]

One question for all:  At take off, the boat seems to have a slight "vibration" during acceleration as it's getting up to speed.  It seems to go away as it settles in at the intended speed.  The boat definitely doesn't jump out of the hole like my last boat did.  It has an ACME 515 prop on it that the previous owner told me was purchased recently after dinging the old prop in shallow water.  Because of that story, I worry about a bent driveshaft but would think the issue would get worse at high speed, which doesn't happen here.

So I really wonder if it's the engine stumbling a bit causing the vibration.  Based on the looks of things, I'd guess it's been a long time, if ever, since engine maintenance such as cap, rotor, plugs and wires have been changed.  Also probably has 1/2 tank of old gas that I'm trying to run through.

Based on what I've said above, where would you start with a diagnosis or doing some engine maintenance?

 

 

[SkiPablo]

i would just check your prop for dings and see if everything is tight on the cutlass bearing.  if you grab the prop nothing should move side to side or up and down.    I would at least start with plugs - they could be fouled.

[Bozboat]

38 minutes ago, Badger said:

One question for all:  At take off, the boat seems to have a slight "vibration" during acceleration as it's getting up to speed.  It seems to go away as it settles in at the intended speed.  The boat definitely doesn't jump out of the hole like my last boat did.  It has an ACME 515 prop on it that the previous owner told me was purchased recently after dinging the old prop in shallow water.  Because of that story, I worry about a bent driveshaft but would think the issue would get worse at high speed, which doesn't happen here.

So I really wonder if it's the engine stumbling a bit causing the vibration.  Based on the looks of things, I'd guess it's been a long time, if ever, since engine maintenance such as cap, rotor, plugs and wires have been changed.  Also probably has 1/2 tank of old gas that I'm trying to run through.

Based on what I've said above, where would you start with a diagnosis or doing some engine maintenance?

 

I replace the cap and rotor every other year, the fuel filters every Spring.   I would start with the easy stuff, like checking the cap and rotor, replace the fuel filters, check the fuel pressure with a gauge and fill the tank with fresh fuel and stabil.

[twitchee2]

I had to replace my cutlass bearings. That did a cause a vibration typically it was more at idle speed but it was noticeable and it always cleaned up at speed.  There was play and I could move the shaft by hand in the bearings and its easy to check.

[UWSkier]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

@UWSkierNo issues as far as I know.  I've only pulled one person so far and will watch that.  I will say that the PP doesn't seem quite as responsive as my 2015 VTX but I assumed that was drive by cable issues versus drive by wire.  I'm curious what the speed does with a more aggressive skier pulling on the boat.

@twitchee2 Lol, I got confused for a second with the almost identical thread titles.

On PP responsiveness, make sure the linkages are all good and tight.  There should be no play or slop when the servo is tightened.  If the linkages look good and you want it more responsive, turn up the Kx setting to + or ++.  With mine on ++, it's hyper responsive.  If you hammer the throttle out of the hole, it'll practically throw you against the windshield backing down the throttle to not overshoot the set speed.  It will also respond more aggressively if you set the skier to be heavy instead of normal.

[Woodski]

Friends boat has similar vibration, loose cutlass bearings were the cause.  If you are concerned about bent shaft you could put a dial indicator on the shaft and spin to verify, although you can actually do a visual and be fairly sure.  Use a tape measure or even some fixed length item like a screwdriver and hold against hull and sight it at the tip of the shaft and have someone rotate the prop, you will see any motion that way. 

[gary_tenison]

I still recommend putting a hose in engine well and filling boat up on trailer...jack nose up a bit higher than level so water goes to the back. By the time water covers the shaft hose connection to the front of the HDS box, water will start coming out the shaft hole in the bottom of the boat. It's that simple. Your carpet wont even get wet. The water doesnt even need to cover the lid of the HDS.

I went round and round with that leak and finally fixed it well. I pasted in below some of the stuff I had posted in my thread...

--------------------------

I spent the better part of a day chisling and grinding out terrible repair efforts from several marinas. The crack was finally exposed in the rear floor junction of the box area. Small verticle crack. 

I did some research and decided to use PLEXUS MA-530 (I think I also read somewhere on this site that Plexus was the recommended Warranty repair too) . I went to Jamestown Distributors online and bought a Plexus MA-530 applicator (looks like a standard caulking gun but can caulk the two cylinders that MA530 comes in - its a two part fast acting apoxy). Applicator gun was about $80 bucks and a canister of MA530 was $100 bucks. I bought two canisters thinking I would need it but I didn't...I didn't even use all of one canister. Be SURE to buy the proper mixing nozzle with the canister. You buy the mixing nozzle and it mixes the two parts as you apply the MA530. I pumped it in and rubbed it in tight along edges with my hand (in a rubber glove)...be careful not to breath too much of this...wow it has a strong smell.

I later verified the leak was fixed. Then went to reseal the cover. Lesson learned. USE stainless steel hex head SHEET METAL SCREWS. Squirt your sealant on the screw, and liberally around edge of box lid,  and carefully screw in. A self tapping (not self drilling - don't use the ones with drilling blades on bottom tip) sheet metal screw has large threads and is perfect for fiberglass. But only snug them up. A small screw in fiberglass can take about 6 lbs of torque. Do NOT overtighten. I went to Bold Depot and bought several sizes online. If you strip one out, go to next bigger size. You will probably find that some of your existing screw holes were already stripped out by a poor boat shop repair or prior owner. 

[Badger]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:35 AM, Woodski said:

Friends boat has similar vibration, loose cutlass bearings were the cause.  If you are concerned about bent shaft you could put a dial indicator on the shaft and spin to verify, although you can actually do a visual and be fairly sure.  Use a tape measure or even some fixed length item like a screwdriver and hold against hull and sight it at the tip of the shaft and have someone rotate the prop, you will see any motion that way. 

Should I be able to rotate my prop by hand, because I can't?  I was in the water grabbing it with both hands and have no movement whatsoever.

[asnowman]

13 minutes ago, Badger said:

Should I be able to rotate my prop by hand, because I can't?  I was in the water grabbing it with both hands and have no movement whatsoever.

Yes, you should be able to spin it if the boat is in neutral and engine off.

Had to do it a couple times on our response, usually when pulling the slalom course

[jjackkrash]

Great thread.

On the detailing, I bought this book and really like it; Mike Phillips also has great boat detailing videos from his detailing classes on Autogeeks.    

https://www.marine31.com/marine-31-boat-book.html

Bottom line is gelcoat  isn't paint and takes more aggressive steps to combat oxidation.  I would get a rotary and some wool pads with some cutting power or a gear driven (not random) orbital at least.  You can use the random orbital as a finisher to take out the holograms left by the rotary, but knocking down oxidation on gel sucks with a random orbital alone.  You can do it but it really takes a lot of time.  3m also makes Trizact abrasive sanding products that work well on gel.  

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Transportation/Marine/Car-Boat-Care/Abrasives-Sanding-Systems/Trizact/?N=5002385+8709375+8709962+8710649+8710681+8711017+8711739+3294857497&rt=r3  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by jjackkrash

[Woodski]

@Badger - as for rotating the prop, yes although it depends on the style of cutlass bearings.  The white vesconite ones should spin free, the rubber style (black) need water as a lubricant to spin free.  They can be pretty stiff if out of water.

[UWSkier]

Prop should turn freely. If your strut and or shaft are bent it won't. 

[Michigan boarder]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Prop should turn freely. If your strut and or shaft are bent it won't. 

Or if the engine has slid out of alignment.

[Badger]

19 hours ago, Woodski said:

@Badger - as for rotating the prop, yes although it depends on the style of cutlass bearings.  The white vesconite ones should spin free, the rubber style (black) need water as a lubricant to spin free.  They can be pretty stiff if out of water.

feeling pretty good about things

18 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Prop should turn freely. If your strut and or shaft are bent it won't. 

Nervous

15 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

Or if the engine has slid out of alignment.

Panic attack!  

Lol, seriously, skied this morning with the vibration.  The two diagnostics we ran are 1) revving the boat in neutral = no vibration.  2)  Watching the drive shaft, when shifting into neutral, it stops spinning immediately. 

I'm going to try to pull the boat out of the water later today and do some more diagnostics in the driveway.

[Badger]

On 6/6/2020 at 1:57 PM, Woodski said:

@Badger - as for rotating the prop, yes although it depends on the style of cutlass bearings.  The white vesconite ones should spin free, the rubber style (black) need water as a lubricant to spin free.  They can be pretty stiff if out of water.

I'm going to come back and post pictures from my phone in the next post.

@Woodski  I assume I have the black ones per the picture I'm going to post.  They appear to be jacked up a bit and wondering if this is an issue.?  After I pulled the boat out of the water, I immediately went underneath and can turn the prop shaft - not easy, but I can turn.

I don't have easy access to a magnetic base dial indicator so I used a trick from @ahopkinsVTX and took some 12 gauge electrical wire and taped it to the bottom of the boat.  I put the end of the wires almost against the shaft - 1 wire between the boat and the strut, 1 near the strut and 1 at the tip of the prop.  There was not a noticeable out of round condition on the shaft at all on either of the wires.  1 of the blades of the prop is definitely knocked out of position by what I would estimate 3-4 mm.  The same blade also has hammer marks on the back of it but does not have an noticeable impact (besides the hammer mark)  .  Is it pretty likely 3-4 mm out of would cause the vibration I'm experiencing?  Since I don't travel with the boat, I don't really need a spare prop, so thinking I may try to get this one repaired, if lead times aren't too bad.  If anyone in the SE Mich area, has a prop shop recommendation, please let me know.

[Badger]

Pics 

Edit - hard to see the rubber coming out unevenly at the top of the strut.  2nd picture can see the hammer marks and that is a 2-3mm gap to the wire from the tip.  Third picture is the condition of the other two blades, touching the wire.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Badger

[Bozboat]

Prop repair will cure most of the vibration and you should consider replacing the rubber bushings with the plastic ones from Glide.  I changed mine out and it made a big difference.

[UWSkier]

Yup.  Fix or replace that prop with a fresh 515 and your vibration will be gone.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Bozboat said:

Prop repair will cure most of the vibration and you should consider replacing the rubber bushings with the plastic ones from Glide.  I changed mine out and it made a big difference.

@Bozboat. It made a difference in what way?

1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

Yup.  Fix or replace that prop with a fresh 515 and your vibration will be gone.

It’s a 515 on there now.  Any reason to try something different?  I see wake makers has 515s under $400.  I’m not sure it’s worth it to even take my prop to get it repaired at that price but I will make some calls in the morning 

[Bozboat]

Slide bushings

less friction, spins easier, sounds better 

less noise

old rubber ones were worn, it was possible to move the shaft in the strut (Move not spin) with approx 650 hours on them 

I have two 515 props, one for a small nick/s from slicing into mud bottom at idle which caused it to vibrate noticeably  at higher speed. Prop shop made a small adjustment at no charge which fixed it.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Bozboat