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Electric over hydraulic


spikew919

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Since my master cylinder on my Malibu trailer took a crap and leaked all over everything, even tho it never braked worth a dang from day one. I decided to get the EOH pump from dexter, and man what a difference. I will never buy another trainer with surge brakes on them. This system is wayyyyyy superior in every way. 
 

 Literally bled all 6 wheels by myself in less than 15 minutes. 

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14 minutes ago, spikew919 said:

Since my master cylinder on my Malibu trailer took a crap and leaked all over everything, even tho it never braked worth a dang from day one. I decided to get the EOH pump from dexter, and man what a difference. I will never buy another trainer with surge brakes on them. This system is wayyyyyy superior in every way. 
 

 Literally bled all 6 wheels by myself in less than 15 minutes. 

Best trailer upgrades I ever did, and agree never again with surge brakes

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On 5/14/2020 at 4:21 PM, spikew919 said:

I thought (or at least I read a few times) that if you move to EoH you need to use a fixed tongue (not a swing away) as the pin and associated hole for the swing away is not designed for the tension forces the electric brakes will cause (which always seemed strange since pulling the boat is a tension force on the pin/hole.) But I have seen it referenced a few different times that switching over requires you to ditch the swing away and that is one of the things that has stopped me from going down this path.

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1 minute ago, gregtay said:

I thought (or at least I read a few times) that if you move to EoH you need to use a fixed tongue (not a swing away) as the pin and associated hole for the swing away is not designed for the tension forces the electric brakes will cause (which always seemed strange since pulling the boat is a tension force on the pin/hole.) But I have seen it referenced a few different times that switching over requires you to ditch the swing away and that is one of the things that has stopped me from going down this path.

I thought that they're just referring to the sliding actuator, and that that would need to be welded up so it wouldn't move.  I'm not sure I see why a fold away tongue would work for one kind of stopping and not the other?  How does the pin know which kind of brakes the trailer has?

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1 minute ago, shawndoggy said:

I thought that they're just referring to the sliding actuator, and that that would need to be welded up so it wouldn't move.  I'm not sure I see why a fold away tongue would work for one kind of stopping and not the other?  How does the pin know which kind of brakes the trailer has?

From what I read it has to do with the changes in braking forces.  In a panic stop on a surge brake setup the "pin" joint is always in compression and the forces aren't applied/transferred to the pin but to the trailer frame since the frame pieces are connected and push on each other.  In the case of EoH the trailer brakes can apply more stopping power to the trailer then the car is currently experiencing... therefore the trailer is now "pulling" back and creating a tension force on the hinge point.  In that case the pin and the bolt on the other side experience 100% of that force (all applied where the pin/bolt pass through the hole.)  I think the issue is that over time it might round out the hole.  Again... I never fully understood the issue since when you accelerate quickly or tow up a steep hill that pin/bolt are experiencing the same tension forces and that is part of their designed function.    First time I read about the need to switch to a fixed tounge I didn't believe it so I did a bit of research and found a few additional sources that validated it.  The question I have always had is "what does Malibu do"?  If you check the EoH box do you still get a swing away?.. if so then I am not worried about it.  (and sadly I could have answered this questions last week when I saw a brand new Malibu 3A trailer at the boat launch... someone got a new toy (25 or a 240) and I noticed it had the factory EoH install (which BTW Malibu mounts the actuator up high on a pedestal (not quite winch level) to keep it away from the water, hard to miss it... but of course, I forgot to look and see if it had a swing away.

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40 minutes ago, gregtay said:

I thought (or at least I read a few times) that if you move to EoH you need to use a fixed tongue (not a swing away) as the pin and associated hole for the swing away is not designed for the tension forces the electric brakes will cause (which always seemed strange since pulling the boat is a tension force on the pin/hole.) But I have seen it referenced a few different times that switching over requires you to ditch the swing away and that is one of the things that has stopped me from going down this path.

I actually drilled 5/8” bolts on each side. Grade 8 to stabilize the tongue. And it’s just me thinking. The truck accelerating with a 12k boat and trailer should be about as much strain if not more than than the braking force of the 12k trailer trying to stop a 9k truck in a panic stop just using the lever on the controller, . And for sure less in normal situations where truck is braking also. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

May have to do some more searching or figuring.

Edited by spikew919
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On 5/2/2020 at 6:02 PM, spikew919 said:

Since my master cylinder on my Malibu trailer took a crap and leaked all over everything, even tho it never braked worth a dang from day one. I decided to get the EOH pump from dexter, and man what a difference. I will never buy another trainer with surge brakes on them. This system is wayyyyyy superior in every way. 
 

 Literally bled all 6 wheels by myself in less than 15 minutes. 

With EOH, will the brakes engage when using boat launch ramps?  (I would assume the answer is yes)  With surge brakes and lack of "surge", I've seen boats/trailers drag their truck down the ramp.  Would EOH prevent this?

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4 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

With EOH, will the brakes engage when using boat launch ramps?  (I would assume the answer is yes)  With surge brakes and lack of "surge", I've seen boats/trailers drag their truck down the ramp.  Would EOH prevent this?

Yes... they are engaged by the brake controller which is basically controlled by the brake pedal. 

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  • 1 year later...

I know this thread is a year and a half old, but I am wondering with the trend to the bigger, heavier boats, if there are more people using the EOH and any more experience with it?

We have a older T23 and ordered a 2022 25 LSV.  Our ramp is somewhat steep and can have some gravel or loose stones on it.  Even with the relatively light T23 (4200lbs) backing down (with standard surge brakes) we would break, drag a foot, break, drag a foot etc.  Not terrible, but not exactly fun either.  With the 25 LSV being 2000+ lbs heaver we were very concerned about getting pulled down the ramp.  We went with the EOH on the 2022 25 LSV.  I could not find a lot of reports of experience with them other then this thread, so I am hoping they are reliable and work well.

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23 minutes ago, familyfun said:

I know this thread is a year and a half old, but I am wondering with the trend to the bigger, heavier boats, if there are more people using the EOH and any more experience with it?

We have a older T23 and ordered a 2022 25 LSV.  Our ramp is somewhat steep and can have some gravel or loose stones on it.  Even with the relatively light T23 (4200lbs) backing down (with standard surge brakes) we would break, drag a foot, break, drag a foot etc.  Not terrible, but not exactly fun either.  With the 25 LSV being 2000+ lbs heaver we were very concerned about getting pulled down the ramp.  We went with the EOH on the 2022 25 LSV.  I could not find a lot of reports of experience with them other then this thread, so I am hoping they are reliable and work well.

What is your tow vehicle?

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21 minutes ago, Sparky450 said:

What is your tow vehicle?

The answer to that is more complicated then you might think.  We only tow twice a year (unless an issue requires a trip tot he dealer) as the boat stays on a lift during the season.  Technically we tow to/from the lake with a F350 diesel crew cab long bed 2WD, which is more than enough to tow pretty much any tow boat (we bought it, and used it, to tow a 10000# 32' fifth wheel).  The issue is that the ramp area is tight and maneuvering with the long truck and boat is tough and we don't  have 4WD on it so at the lake we switch to a Ford Excursion 4WD (with HD tow package) to pull it in and out.  Yes, the Excursion is relatively light and hence some sliding on a steep ramp even with the T23.  Having said that though, I read somewhere about people reporting getting pulled down ramps with heavy work trucks and some of these heavy newer boats.

Edited by familyfun
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2 hours ago, familyfun said:

I read somewhere about people reporting getting pulled down ramps with heavy work trucks and some of these heavy newer boats.

This is why I asked. We have a short steep ramp. I tow with a Ram 3500 4wd LB CC, loaded with about 700-800#'s of tools. My 2019 25LSV pulled me down the ramp a couple times. As long as I launch in 4wd I am fine. I also ran a good amount of lead that I did not unload. Our ramp is also very slick, at low tide we have moss. But, i'snt the Excursion on a 3/4 ton chassis and it has 4wd. I think you would be fine in 4wd.

 

 

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From the EOH systems I have seen I would say the answer is yes.  A small battery is mounted to the trailer to power the breakaway switch to engage the brakes if the pin is pulled out.  The truck connector will power the actuator pump and should also charge the trailer battery.

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Fwiw, we switched to straight electric trailer brakes on our boat last year. My buddy did the same about 5 years ago. 
 

No issue with a swing way tongue. We did weld the sliding actuator. And we have a battery mounted to the winch mast of the boat trailer. Brakes work on a steep ramp (I sometimes use an Ex MAX if my truck is being used for the RV). 
 

Add me to the camp of never going back to surge brakes. I’m very happy with the upgrade. 

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49 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Fwiw, we switched to straight electric trailer brakes on our boat last year. My buddy did the same about 5 years ago. 
 

No issue with a swing way tongue. We did weld the sliding actuator. And we have a battery mounted to the winch mast of the boat trailer. Brakes work on a steep ramp (I sometimes use an Ex MAX if my truck is being used for the RV). 
 

Add me to the camp of never going back to surge brakes. I’m very happy with the upgrade. 

So you went to straight electric?  Like a typical utility trailer. Do you have problems with them in the water? 

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8 hours ago, Sparky450 said:

So you went to straight electric?  Like a typical utility trailer. Do you have problems with them in the water? 

Yes, it is just like a utility trailer. The guy that did it works for all the boat dealers and told me he has been doing it for years. One year (and lots of trips/dunks of the trailer) and it has been trouble free. 

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11 hours ago, RyanB said:

Fwiw, we switched to straight electric trailer brakes on our boat last year. My buddy did the same about 5 years ago. 
 

No issue with a swing way tongue. We did weld the sliding actuator. And we have a battery mounted to the winch mast of the boat trailer. Brakes work on a steep ramp (I sometimes use an Ex MAX if my truck is being used for the RV). 
 

Add me to the camp of never going back to surge brakes. I’m very happy with the upgrade. 

Can you take a picture of the battery mount?  Just curious.  I've been thinking about doing this as well.

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