First Surf boat- 2020 A22

[formerathlete]

22 hours ago, Tmf said:

Hi, new to this forum and surf boating. Actually will be our first boat ever. We have looked at the Moomba max and the axis a22. Test drove Moomba Max and Axis A22 with M5  have not test drive one with theM6. Axis definitely had the bigger wave, and we liked the ease of the wave but we’re told adding lead to the Moomba Max would create a similar wave to the axis.  We do like the wrap around windshield on the moomba max and the Bimini was easier to raise and lower and the bow was a walk through on the moomba where it wasn’t on the axis. We also liked the wind screen better on the moomba and the view was clearer without the gauges and the raised glove box.  The price is more in align with what we wanted to spend but we don’t want to make a wrong decision. Any recommendations greatly appreciated.

Many of those things you mention are cosmetic but it sounds like you've already made up your mind.

Here's my two cents... I had a wraparound window on my previous boat and don't miss it AT ALL. In fact, I love not having the side window because I can reach out and grab the dock when others in my boat can't seem to figure out what to do when we approach the dock. I also love being able to talk directly to the rider in the water without the window blocking me. As for the raised "glove-box", I'm assuming you mean raised dash? Yeah, it's higher than the moomba but you don't even notice it. I can't speak for the wind screen since I rarely use it but when I have, it's "worked" fine. If having a better wind screen is a deal breaker, then I guess Moomba is a better option for you. The bimini isn't hard to use on the Axis, the biggest pain is putting the cover back on it when it's rolled back up. But again, you get used to and deal with it.

Seems like Moomba has improved a ton over the years and I doubt you'd regret buying one (I'm curious for more from boardjnky4). Axis has improved as well. You'll get the haters who don't like the fit and finish on the Axis and I can only speak for my boat but I have no problem with the fit and finish of my boat. I'm not losing cupholders, I don't have any fiberglass strings under my seats. Heck I haven't even found an unused screw in my bilge from the build process! I do wish there was less plastic and a better dash with rider profiles but same goes for Moomba in a lot of areas. And I don't have the money to spend well over 100k to get what I'd love to have fit and finish-wise. Between the A22 and Max, I definitely like the look of the Axis better, especially the tower. I hate the Moomba tower. I also think that the Max looks like a giant shoebox, it's just too tall and squared off for my taste. A very dry boat though.

As for the waves and wakes, I totally agree with @agarabaghi. It definitely tells you something that the A22 is better out of the box. I know a guy with a 2019 Moomba Max. He got his a little before we got our A22. He's STILL trying to find the best wave (constantly messing with Autowake and ballast). He's added a ton more ballast, I think he's up to 5600lbs or so and he likes his wave best when he has a suck gate device mounted to the side of his boat! Plus, with all that weight, he's running about 4000 RPM at 10.5mph with a 15x12 prop. His engine is screaming! I don't know about you, but the thought of having to do all that (especially the suck gate device) isn't appealing to me and I'd be disappointed, quite frankly. We are running about 3100lbs of ballast, I pick a side, drop the wedge and go. And the wave is plenty. It might not match the Max with 5600lbs and a suck gate device on the side but it's close and a whole lot easier to get there. Plus, I'm only running at about 3300-3500RPM at 11mph (15.75" pitch prop), depending on my Power Wedge setting. As for wakeboarding, I don't think the Max is close to the A22 wakeboarding wake. I'm pretty sure the Max is built to surf and they really didn't plan for it to do much wakeboarding. But maybe you don't plan to wakeboard much?

Anyways,  to each their own. Good luck with the search future purchase!

Edited March 10, 2020 by formerathlete

[Eagleboy99]

9 minutes ago, formerathlete said:

I can reach out and grab the dock

And get your hand crushed?  Ask me how I know...

[BigRed]

@formerathlete it’s great to see you really like your A22.  I’m hoping I will have the same experience.  
 

How is your 3,100 in ballast broken down?  1,065 in hard ballast I assume.  What size PnP bags are you using?  

[granddaddy55]

On 3/5/2020 at 7:29 PM, BigRed said:

 

The heater was a must for my wife.  

 

 

 

ABSOLUTELY, get a heater! best creature comfort on boat, super cheap option on my ‘14, no matter what they went up, they are worth it

my wife runs ours for months in early spring snd late fall when shes driving or just getting dry

[formerathlete]

11 hours ago, BigRed said:

@formerathlete it’s great to see you really like your A22.  I’m hoping I will have the same experience.  
 

How is your 3,100 in ballast broken down?  1,065 in hard ballast I assume.  What size PnP bags are you using?  

I have 750's in rear lockers and a 440lb bag in bow. Then 1065 in hard tanks and about 80-90lbs in observer seat storage compartment. Contemplating putting FatSac 655lb bag in bow but might just go with lead since seats are already being pushed up by 440lb bag. Having 2 batteries in bow does help.

Edited March 11, 2020 by formerathlete

[BigRed]

@formerathlete - Does your setup create a pretty good wave? I know every boat is a little different and that the weight of your crew will change the wave. 

The dealer stated the A22 likes to have weight in the bow. It was recommended to stick with 550 bags in the rear, then the 440 in the front.  He stated with this setup, you fill everything to max and surf! Pretty easy and straight forward. You only need to adjust Power Wedge. The dealer stated if we go with 750's in the back, I will need to add additional bow weight to get a good wave.

Sorry for my ignorance as this is my first surf boat. Will the 655lb sac go under the seats in place of the 440 sac? I guess I'm confused, if the 440 sac pushes up on the seat, wouldn't the 655lb sac push up even further if placed under the seat? 

I also considered putting the 440 sac up front with 250 lbs of lead in the battery compartment. However, others have stated don't use lead. They stated lead in the bow is more dangerous than a water sac with the way displacement work.  Thoughts?

[formerathlete]

The dealer is right about the bow weight. That's true. 

But the 750/440 setup is still a good combo, IMO. Our setup (everything 100% full) creates a good enough wave for anyone in my crew and my brother is big and just learning how to surf without the rope (not the wave that's holding him back). It's plenty good. I experimented with my rear bags quite a bit last summer, our first with the boat. I always filled the rear and center hard tanks all the way and filled the 440 bag in bow all the way. Then I'd experiment with the locker bags and Power Wedge settings to find the best wave. We usually had a small crew when I did this (my wife and two small kids). Ultimately, the best wave was when I filled everything 100%, including rear 750's, and ran the wedge at setting 1 or 2. When I filled the rear locker bags 1/2 or 3/4 full, I had to compensate with more wedge (setting 3-5 typically) in order to get the amount of push that I like to keep me in the wave. Keep in mind, it was my first summer wakesurfing without a rope, so I was a beginner when I first got the boat and was experimenting with ballast. Once I decided to slam everything 100%, I had no problem staying in the wave and became a lot better at wakesurfing. The bow is definitely a bit higher with everything 100% full but keeping the wedge at 1 or 2 helps keep the bow down and lengthens the wave more, not to mention helps keep engine RPM's lower than the 1/2 or 3/4 filled bags with wedge at 3-5 combo. Do I think the 550/440 combo will be just fine? Definitely, especially if you or your crew know how to wakesurf. You just might have to compensate with more Power Wedge to get that wave just right if you are a beginner.

Also, I ride on the regular side, not the goofy side. I wish I rode on the goofy side (need to learn) because that wave is crazy good when I fill everything (due to prop rotation).  

Check out the post here from Raimie, one of the TMC Supporters who is super knowledgeable about ballast setups for Malibu and Axis boats: 

 

As for the 655lb bag, yes, it will replace the 440 bag under the seats and the main reason I probably won't get it is because the 440 already pushes up the seats, so the 655 will just push them up more. I'm still debating though...when the 440 is totally full, it BARELY pushes up the seats. If I had a bag that could get maybe another 100lbs in there without making the bow inaccessible due to seats being pushed up too high, I'd consider it. It would be great if I could try the 655 and and return it if I didn't like it.That may be possible but I haven't looked into that option. 

As for lead, the biggest issue with that is it's always in there, you can't 'drain it'. That makes it heavier to trailer, heavier when cruising and if you ever slalom, you'll always have that weight in there unless you have a place to leave it (live on a lake, etc). Slalom is likely not a huge priority for many buying these types of boats, though. I can't speak to the more dangerous part of it other than maybe you are at an increased risk of taking a wave over the bow if your other ballast is low or empty. Might also affect turning when ballast is low or empty. @agarabaghiruns a ton of lead, so he might have more insight for you on that.

Edited March 11, 2020 by formerathlete

[BigRed]

Some really good information @formerathlete ! Sounds like 750's in the rear it is! 

 

You mentioned your brother is big. What board would you recommend for a big guy who is a beginner? I'm 6'5 and 260 lbs and never wake surfed. Also had 9 knee surgeries which is why I'm giving up basketball and taking to wakesurfing.  I probably could pick an easier sport, buy hey we only live once! We don't plan on doing anything more than surfing, drinking, and chillaxing!  My wife and son got up just fine last year on a buddies boat. I was recently out of knee surgery and couldn't get up. I didn't' have the leg strength yet and still had some pain.  I'm sure my knee was part of the reason, but his board was really buoyant and squirrely.  That didn't help me at all. Time to look for my own board with this new boat!!!

[formerathlete]

Honestly, @BigRed, I'm not the guy to ask. There are so many more people way more qualified than me to answer that. I recommend posting that question on the "Watersports and Gear" forum on here. That should fetch some good information. If you are buying your boat from NW Inboards, I highly recommend talking to Andrew at Bakes (in the same shop as NW Inboards). He's super knowledgeable about everything from boats to gear. Darren and/or Zac will also know how to help. 

My brother is 6'1 260 or so and he was riding a 5'4 Hyperlite Broadcast last summer. It's big and it worked fine for him. It's also what I rode until I recently upgraded to a 4'6" Doomsell Neo that will fit me better.

Good luck!

[BigRed]

Thank you and yes, Darren and Zac are are helping me out! Good guys! 

[BigRed]

Change of plans. Since manufacturing is shut down we pulled the trigger on a A24 today instead! A little bigger than we looking at, but bigger is better! 

[formerathlete]

Nice. What’s the outlook on delivery date, unknown right now?

[ahopkins22LSV]

Congratulations!!

We need pictures though...

[BigRed]

[BigRed]

Our 2020 A24. Calling her "Haze Grey"

[agarabaghi]

Awesome! youll love it. What motor?

[formerathlete]

That’s awesome. And that’ll pretty much  take care of any ballast bag/wave concerns you had. You’ll never need a bigger wave then the A24 throws! That was their newest in stock A24, wasn’t it? I think I saw it when I had our boat dewinterized in March. Beautiful boat. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by formerathlete

[BigRed]

@agarabaghi It has the 450 in it.  They didn't have one in stock with the M6 and I didnt' want the M5 in the A24. 

 

@formerathlete. I'm not sure on the age. I was looking for a boat with the engine upgrade. This was the only one left on the lot with the larger engine. 

 

[agarabaghi]

awesome! 

[gregtay]

New boat looks SWEET!  Congrats and get ready for a super fun summer:)

[abovewater]

That is a nice looking boat. You will not regret going 24 vs 22.

[formerathlete]

Is this your boat?? Love it. https://www.nwinboards.com/2020-a24-graphite

[BigRed]

@formerathlete yes, that is the one! We are excited to get it in the water!

Do you know if any docks are open on Lake Sammamish? Might try to go out Sunday if the boat is delivered by then.  We live a few minutes from Lake Tapps, but the lake doesn't open until April 20th. 

 

[gregtay]

31 minutes ago, BigRed said:

@formerathlete yes, that is the one! We are excited to get it in the water!

Do you know if any docks are open on Lake Sammamish? Might try to go out Sunday if the boat is delivered by then.  We live a few minutes from Lake Tapps, but the lake doesn't open until April 20th. 

 

The lake is "open" but Lake Sammamish State Park is closed... the main public launch :-/ . You will need to find a private launch ramp to get on the water (which isn't the easiest task, but possible.)

[formerathlete]

You could try calling Vasa Park on Sammamish to see if they'd let you launch there. I have launched there one time in about 20 years but we were also using their park for a graduation party and paid for that. I'm not sure they'd be supportive of letting anyone launch there now given the stay at home order :(. I've heard some people are using the launch at Newport Shores in Bellevue. Might be worth trying. 

We are dying to get back on the water, too, especially with these nice days we're having right now. How bad of a look is it to be heading out on the water (albeit with just our family) during the stay at home order? We want to get out there badly but I don't want to be 'that guy'. Seems like there's no better example of social distancing than being on the water but I'm sure people without a boat would disagree. Not sure we can make it to May 4th (hopefully they don't extend it).