2019 EZ Drive Fitment - After Market Stern Turn

[asnowman]

10 minutes ago, JeffK said:

I used the same ground as @asnowman and had started on the same positive post as well, but decided to move mine to the house battery instead of the cranking battery, so I ran it up front to the battery switch/ACR in my boat.

We run the battery switch in 1&2 position, basically never have a need to isolate one.

[gregtay]

14 minutes ago, JeffK said:

I used the same ground as @asnowman and had started on the same positive post as well, but decided to move mine to the house battery instead of the cranking battery, so I ran it up front to the battery switch/ACR in my boat.

I thought one advantage of having the thruster on the cranking circuit is that the ACR would protect the house circuit (stereo, electronics) from the voltage drop that occurs when using the thruster.  I'd love to know how Malibu wires this thing up on a factory install.

[JeffK]

2 hours ago, gregtay said:

I thought one advantage of having the thruster on the cranking circuit is that the ACR would protect the house circuit (stereo, electronics) from the voltage drop that occurs when using the thruster.  I'd love to know how Malibu wires this thing up on a factory install.

That's how I started, but my house battery is much larger (group 31) so I'm going to try it there.  I have since upgraded my crank battery as well, so may go back to plan A eventually.

[Setter2016]

Thanks so much for the info.  Everyone is awesome with the help.  Of course, last week I was leaving to go boating on Thursday and trying to finish the install on Wednesday night.  That caused me to break the positive post when I was trying to unscrew the nut.  Now, the bolt that sticks up spins and I cannot loosen the nut.  As such, I have to replace the positive post.  I have one battery cable into the positive post and three leaving it (one to alternator, one to EZ thruster and one to unknown).   Any recommendations on the replacement positive post.  Currently, there is a single post on a red base which I believe is rated for 250 amps that all the connections tie into.  I saw this 4 positive post set up on amazon that has a cover: https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Power-Distribution-Block-Cover/dp/B078VGKC8T/ref=asc_df_B078VGKC8T/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=346785085901&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1474714389354444437&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031905&hvtargid=pla-491063726342&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=69815303997&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=346785085901&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1474714389354444437&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031905&hvtargid=pla-491063726342  that is rated for 250 or 350 amps.  I believe I would run the battery cable and the alternator cable to the first post, put the next unknown cable on the second post, put the EZ thruster on the third post and leave the 4th post open for future use.  Any thoughts on this?  Thanks again.

[Setter2016]

Ok, I completed the positive post replacement on my Malibu Wakesetter LSV25 with 440 Raptor Engine with the following SeaBlue 600 Amp bus bar and cover (https://www.bluesea.com/products/2104/PowerBar_600A_BusBar_-_Four_3_8in-16_Studs).   Here are photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdw31fdy0qka70l/SeaBlue 600 Amp bus bar.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pmt5oc1qbcsh4i/SeaBlue 600 Amp bus bar w cover.pdf?dl=0

Put the boat in the water and in attempting to use the Stern Thruster, my engine died and my boat went dark.  I, honestly, was using the Stern Thruster too much because I was on a river and fighting the current.  Regardless, I believe I need to add a larger Alternator (my current alternator is rated for 95 amps and likely puts out approximately 42 amps at idle).  If possible, I believe Coop had installed the following alternator in a newer Malibu: https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/220-amp-marine-high-output-alternator-universal-mount.html.  This amp puts out approximately 110 amps at idle.  Indmar has a 170 amp alternator kit that puts out approximately 85 amps at idle.  If I go with an alternator other than the Indmar kit, any suggestions as the mounting brackets will need to be custom made and I will need to upgrade the wiring etc. with the larger alternator.  Finally, should I go with the bigger alternator or is the Indmar 170 amp alternator kit sufficient.  Thanks to all for your help.

[Slayer]

I'm pretty sure the new boats come with the 170a alternator when you get stern turn.  I'm no electrical whiz, so hopefully someone with more chops can chime in. 

[COOP]

34 minutes ago, Slayer said:

I'm pretty sure the new boats come with the 170a alternator when you get stern turn.  I'm no electrical whiz, so hopefully someone with more chops can chime in. 

They do.

[Chrismoe]

21 minutes ago, COOP said:

They do.

Hi Setter2016,

COOP has forgotten more about Malibu tech than I will ever know and he is right, boats that some with stern turn from Malibu do have a 170 amp alternator. And for good reason. I have had 2 boats with stern turn and from personal experience I can tell you that after using stern turn throughout the day I would get a "warning - low voltage" message on my dash. My boat  never died but clearly stern turn devices draw lot's of amperage. 

Chris

[COOP]

1 hour ago, Chrismoe said:

Hi Setter2016,

COOP has forgotten more about Malibu tech than I will ever know and he is right, boats that some with stern turn from Malibu do have a 170 amp alternator. And for good reason. I have had 2 boats with stern turn and from personal experience I can tell you that after using stern turn throughout the day I would get a "warning - low voltage" message on my dash. My boat  never died but clearly stern turn devices draw lot's of amperage. 

Chris

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I dont know how accurate that is. Lol!

But yeah, without the big alternator you will drain the batteries down a fair amount. These stern turns draw a ton of current.

Edited November 12, 2020 by COOP

[asnowman]

@COOP doesn't the bigger alternator also require a wiring change of some type?  I remember someone talking about replacing some other wiring.

[COOP]

17 hours ago, asnowman said:

@COOP doesn't the bigger alternator also require a wiring change of some type?  I remember someone talking about replacing some other wiring.

Yes. youll want to upgrade to bigger power wire.

[JeffK]

Malibu has the wiring kit for both the hot and ground wires.  I'd suggest using those as they are fused and have all the matching plugs.  It is identified by the 170 amp rating on the wires.  Was a super easy add.

[gregtay]

The 170 alt + wires is on my upgrade list for this winter.  Never had an issue with the stock alt but I was VERY conservative on how i used my thurster.  If someone purchases the parts(for an M6)  please post up the part numbers. thx

[asnowman]

19 minutes ago, gregtay said:

The 170 alt + wires is on my upgrade list for this winter.  Never had an issue with the stock alt but I was VERY conservative on how i used my thurster.  If someone purchases the parts(for an M6)  please post up the part numbers. thx

I could use that info too please.

We usually use it in short spurts, but one day last summer, we got caught out in a torrential rain storm, and the boat got absolutely soaked. We did go hide out at a friends house until the thunderstorms passes, but as we idled back out into the lake, water in the throttle switch activated the thruster, allowing it to run for about a minute and a half before i realized it was running. Strangely i would have expected the low voltage alarm to have gone off by then, but it didn't until i flipped on all the ballast pumps. 

So far other than that odd situation, i have not really felt a need for the upgrade yet on our 2019 with M6. But i would like to do the upgrade regardless for piece of mind.

[Setter2016]

Thanks to all for their response.  Sounds like everyone believe the 170 Amp Alternator upgrade is sufficient and there is no need to go to a bigger 200+ alternator.  Bakesonline.com sells two 170 Amp Indmar Alternator upgrade kits.  The first is for an Indmar Raptor 400-450 6.2L motor: https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-raptor-400-450-alternator-upgrade-kit-to-170-amp.html.  The second is for the Indmar Raptor 575: https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-raptor-575-alternator-upgrade-kit-to-170-amp.html.  Both cost $1,325.00 and come with free shipping.  If you use code THANKS, there is a 20% discount I believe.  I contacted the local Malibu Dealer and the cost for parts without the discount was the same.  Sadly, they wanted an additional $1,000.00 to install it.  Looks like I am going to try this on my own.  If anyone has any tips on replacing the alternator, love to hear them.  Thanks again.

[COOP]

On 11/12/2020 at 11:52 AM, Setter2016 said:

I believe Coop had installed the following alternator in a newer Malibu: https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/220-amp-marine-high-output-alternator-universal-mount.html.  

Correct, we installed this on a PCM supercharged engine in a MXZ 24. That boat was using the 2019 bow thruster setup.

Edited November 13, 2020 by COOP

[Setter2016]

Coop:

On my 2016 Malibu Wakesetter LSV25 with an Indmar Raptor 440 6.2L engine, would you go with the Indmar 170 alternator kit (https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-raptor-400-450-alternator-upgrade-kit-to-170-amp.html) or with the upgraded 220 Alternator (https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/220-amp-marine-high-output-alternator-universal-mount.html)?

[Setter2016]

I sent the message below to Coop, but if anyone else has any responses, I appreciate the help.  Also, does anyone have a photo of the starter and its location?

Coop:

I was able to find a 200 amp alternator (100 amp at idle) to install in my 2016 Malibu LSV25 with a 450 Indmar Raptor motor.  The prior alternator (95 amp/30 amp at idle) has 3 wires attached to it (red positive, black negative and clip-in small wires).

Questions:

 1.  Did you cap off clip-in small wires like Indmar instructions for their 170 amp alternator state and not attach them to the new alternator or did your new db alternator have a plug in spot for the clip-in wires to attach them to?

2.  What size wire did you use for the red positive wire and the black negative wire? I am looking at 2 awg or 0 awg.

3.   Did you install a fuse block with a 250 amp fuse on the red positive wire?  Where did you install said block and fuse (I.e., mid line or at the positive stud on the starter solenoid etc)?

4.  Does new black negative wire go from new alternator to main engine ground stud on the front of engine? Note: Indmar instructions appear to have us install new black negative wire as stated above and says nothing about removing old black negative wire.  Did you remove the old black negative wire? Any tips on getting the old black negative wire out of the factory shrink wrap?

5.  Does new red positive wire go from new alternator to the positive stud on the starter solenoid.  Again Note: Indmar instructions appear to have us install new red positive wire as stated above and says nothing about removing old red positive wire.  Did you remove the old red positive wire? 

Sorry for all of the questions.  Thanks for your help.

Daniel 415-823-1571

[justgary]

I don't know about @COOP, but I politely refuse to answer any technical question sent to me via PM.  I know that you want an answer, and you want it quickly, but one of the whole points of this forum is to leave a history of questions and answers so that others with issues might be able to find a solution to their problems long after we are gone. 

Also, keep in mind that a PM to somebody is like stepping to the front of the line with their internet time.  A personal conversation is great, but if you aren't offering to pay for personal service, why are you asking for personal time that nobody but you can gain from?  And for the record, any time I get a request with "I'll pay for your time," I politely refuse and suggest that the offeror post the question on the forum and use the money to  buy himself a subscription to this web site instead.

[Setter2016]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:19 AM, justgary said:

I don't know about @COOP, but I politely refuse to answer any technical question sent to me via PM.  I know that you want an answer, and you want it quickly, but one of the whole points of this forum is to leave a history of questions and answers so that others with issues might be able to find a solution to their problems long after we are gone. 

Also, keep in mind that a PM to somebody is like stepping to the front of the line with their internet time.  A personal conversation is great, but if you aren't offering to pay for personal service, why are you asking for personal time that nobody but you can gain from?  And for the record, any time I get a request with "I'll pay for your time," I politely refuse and suggest that the offeror post the question on the forum and use the money to  buy himself a subscription to this web site instead.

JustGary & Coop:

I understand what JustGary is saying and in my quest to fix a problem, I forgot my manners and why this forum is so important to all of us.  Thanks for the heads-up and I apologize to Coop for the PM.  I will not do that again.  Daniel 

[gregtay]

On 8/12/2020 at 5:11 AM, JeffK said:

Here's what I can tell you from working through my install and subsequent issues.  It draws a lot of power.  I had upgraded to the 170 amp alternator, and it still draws a ton of power.  I had mine originally hooked up to the positive distribution post on the engine.  I have since moved it to my house battery.  I upgraded my house battery to a group 31 for an inverter and decided to move the thruster to this as well.  After running the thruster, very minimally I might add,  on the smaller battery with the 170 amp alternator, I would start to get these:

UEGO1 Pump Cell Slow to Warm Up SPN:3325 FMI:10

UEGO2 Pump Cell Slow to Warm Up SPN:3264 FMI:10  

Turns out, which makes sense and is an awesome design BTW, that as the ECM sees a power issue, it starts to pull power from the O2 sensors first.  They have a little built in heater and when not running properly, throw this error.  I haven't tried this new setup back in the water yet, but will this weekend.  You have to make sure this thing has tons of power.  With a 25 and our docking situation, I have to back in to our slip and there are some underwater trees close enough that I'd have a heck of a time without the thruster.  

 

Did moving the power cable for the thruster up to the house battery eliminate the codes? I have the upgraded alt, currently run to the power block by the engine. I am seeing the same error codes when using the thruster for a bit. I am either going to run the power cable to the battery or add a 3rd battery dedicated/isolated to the thruster.

[JeffK]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:53 PM, gregtay said:

Did moving the power cable for the thruster up to the house battery eliminate the codes? I have the upgraded alt, currently run to the power block by the engine. I am seeing the same error codes when using the thruster for a bit. I am either going to run the power cable to the battery or add a 3rd battery dedicated/isolated to the thruster.

So....  A couple things.  I have only received this message once since moving the thruster up to the battery directly (or the perko switch).  The one time I did get it was when I had come right off the trailer and idled around to our dock, then left it idling until I could get the lift dropped in the water.  I have found if I am going to sit and idle for a while and the motor isn't warmed up, I will rev the engine after it has warmed up a few times.  This code, I believe, happens when the cats/02 sensor/something doesn't warm up quickly enough.  They get a small current to help them do that, but if you use the thruster a lot at the beginning, this is the first place that gets power pulled.  But I did get the thruster off of the post at the engine.  

Hope that helps.

[Setter2016]

Ok, pushed off the alternator upgrade until this week.  Originally, my 2016 Wakesetter LSV25 had a 95 Amp alternator and the procedure used to start the boat was to switch the battery termination terminal from the off position to the number one position, press the power on button at the lower right portion of the dash at the drivers seat, watch the screen, enter the security code and press the start button directly next to the power button to start the engine.  Regarding the installation of the new 200 Amp Alternator, I turned the battery termination terminal to the off position (Note:  I did not remove the negative battery cable from the batteries because the battery termination terminal was in the off position and there was no electrical battery power to the engine compartment) and I then replaced the alternator with a 200 Amp alternator in accordance with the instructions from Indmar for its alternator upgrade (I tried to purchase Indmar's alternator package, but it was sold out. Because of this, I followed Indmar's instructions and purchased each of the required parts from separate vendors). The only change made to Indmar's instructions was the new alternator was not self exciting per the seller which required the wire harness plug to continue to be plugged into the new 200 Amp alternator (In the Indmar directions, their upgraded alternator was self exciting and did not need to have said wire harness plug plugged into it).  Additionally, in order to allow said wire harness plug to be plugged in, I had to cut away some of said wire harness plug's plastic housing.  In following Indmar's instructions, I installed a new negative 1/0 AWG black cable from the alternator bracket to the engine's negative post and a new positive 1/0 AWG red cable from the alternator to the positive post of the starter solenoid. 

After completing the installation of the new 200 Amp alternator, I turned the battery termination terminal from the off position to the number 1 position and the engine immediately began to turn over (I had not pressed the boat's power on button, entered the code or pressed the start button).  I immediately turned the battery termination terminal from the number 1 position to the off position.  The engine immediately stopped turning over when I did this. This took about two to three seconds to complete.  

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I did wrong or any method to fix this?

Thanks for the help.
 

[a2t]

replying to older topic but ive got 2019 LSV 25 with EZ drive stern thruster, worked when i bought the boat but has been slowly working more and more intermittently.  Now its totally dead.

Im trying to dig into this install, Im really not sure if Malibu did it or previous owner or what, but the wiring is messy.  Does anyoen have a installation manual showing the wiring detail for this ?  Ive got thumb switch on the throttle lever and the main box seems to be under the observer seat where the battery off, 1, 2  and combine 1/2 is located.

Ive found 2 circuit breakers both labeled thruster - why are there 2 ? The 1st is located under 1st observer seat and has only 1 wire going into it. Not sure how a breaker works with just 1 pole connected, see pic below.

The 2nd breaker is back on the transom where Mailbu already has a few breakers for the gates and wedge. I cant see the back of that breaker (yet).

Anyways, any help prelim diagnose would be helpful.  I could really use a wiring / install manual so I can see how this should of been hooked up, maybe a wire is lose or something.  As I said, it all worked fine in March when I bought the boat, but Ive noticed it didnt always engage thruster with thumb switch.  That prob was intermittent but yesterday it became 100% dead .. neither of the 2 breakers were tripped. By tripped I assume that means the little yellow tab is swung out, like when you press in the blue button.  I cycled both breakers a few times, couldnt get any life out of the thruster.

This is making docking really tough where my boats parked, its super tight and windy. Definltely need this working !  Thanks for any guidance / manual so I can begin to diagnose.  I must say Im a bit ashamed of the wiring on this boat, not sure if that was Malibu or the PO, someone needs to be kicked in nuts though.

 

 

https://ibb.co/5FghvHm

 

https://ibb.co/8KsHw3K

 

 

Paul

Edited September 18, 2023 by a2t

[asnowman]

8 hours ago, a2t said:

 

Anyways, any help prelim diagnose would be helpful.  I could really use a wiring / install manual so I can see how this should of been hooked up, maybe a wire is lose or something.  As I said, it all worked fine in March when I bought the boat, but Ive noticed it didnt always engage thruster with thumb switch.  That prob was intermittent but yesterday it became 100% dead .. neither of the 2 breakers were tripped. By tripped I assume that means the little yellow tab is swung out, like when you press in the blue button.  I cycled both breakers a few times, couldnt get any life out of the thruster.

https://ibb.co/5FghvHm

https://ibb.co/8KsHw3K

Paul

Paul, I have the install manual, happy to send it to you. 

It looks like someone installed it with the breaker under the seat, making for extra length of cables, then it got relocated to the correct area, which is where my breaker is, in the port rear locker.

My guess would be either the switch in the throttle is bad, or that the connection to the control arm for power is bad / loose,  FWIW, i used the fire suppression power feed to power the throttle handle in my 25 LSV since it was right there, and required no additional effort on my part.

I would also check the wire connections, especially near the engine, as they had comically short terminal posts 

Edited September 19, 2023 by asnowman
I cant tell port from left some days