Need ideas for a clean acr install

[JeffK]

Hey crew!  Picked up a 25 and I’m adding an acr with a new switch and I’m trying to find a clean way to install it. I like the friction door that the old one is installed in, but they don’t make them for the larger e series switches that blue seas makes. I also have a small inverter remote panel I’d like to mount there as well. I’d love to use the existing space, just have an enclosure that would house both. I’d prefer to have a friction door so there isn’t a latch showing. Anybody have any ideas or have you seen something that might work?

[JeffK]

The first pic shows the original equipment.  The rest are the things I'd like to add in. 

[JeffK]

Turns out, I may have spoken too soon.  I may have found a distributor that makes doors to fit the larger switch.  I'll keep you posted.

Edited December 12, 2019 by JeffK

[MLA]

I guess you already have the full size Dual Circuit Plus switch? 

[shawndoggy]

https://www.bluesea.com/products/6011/m-Series_Mini_Dual_Circuit_Plus_Battery_Switch_-_Red

They make a smaller switch that looks like it has the same form factor but is designed to work with the ACR.  Though if you could get the trim piece for the bigger switch that's probably preferable.  I've only ever used the "big" acr switch and it always seems to be real tight getting all the connections on the studs.  I can only imagine it's that much harder with the smaller switch (which again, I've never actually worked with).

[JeffK]

1 hour ago, MLA said:

I guess you already have the full size Dual Circuit Plus switch? 

I do.  It came in the ACR kit I purchased.  If there is am M series switch that would work, I'm not opposed to packaging this stuff up and sending it back.

Edited December 12, 2019 by JeffK

[JeffK]

In looking, I guess the 6011 from Blue Seas would do the trick?

[JeffK]

@MLA and @shawndoggy since I have you both on this thread, I’ve seen two diagrams for acr installs and wanted to verify which is the best or most appropriate way to do this. One shows breakers inline and the other doesn’t. Will both work safely?  If you loop the acr back to the posts on the switch, is an additional fuse or breaker not necessary?  And if so, wouldn’t you run those acr leads back to the batter side of the switch and not the house load and starter side?

 

[shawndoggy]

#2 is my diagram, so that's the way I would do it.

[formulaben]

2 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

I've only ever used the "big" acr switch and it always seems to be real tight getting all the connections on the studs.  I can only imagine it's that much harder with the smaller switch (which again, I've never actually worked with).

+1 here.  Having just done this recently I can say that you'll definitely want the bigger switch unless the smaller switch is the only form factor that will fit your desired arrangement, meaning something like this.

[JeffK]

Thanks all!  Well, I've got it all on the way, so I'll play with it and return what isn't wanted/needed. 

@shawndoggy - Is there a reason you have the ACR on the top half of the switch, against the house and starter side vs on the same posts as your batteries?  My assumption is the onboard charger, which I have as well, so I wanted to verify.  I'm guessing that by having it on the other poles, when charging, it would break the isolation, right?

[shawndoggy]

12 minutes ago, JeffK said:

Thanks all!  Well, I've got it all on the way, so I'll play with it and return what isn't wanted/needed. 

@shawndoggy - Is there a reason you have the ACR on the top half of the switch, against the house and starter side vs on the same posts as your batteries?  My assumption is the onboard charger, which I have as well, so I wanted to verify.  I'm guessing that by having it on the other poles, when charging, it would break the isolation, right?

correct.

If the battery and acr are on the same posts, then when you charge one or the other battery, the switch is going to close, creating one big battery, and then you lose the benefit of a dual bank charger that can separately charge and condition each battery independently.

 

[MLA]

1 hour ago, JeffK said:

I do.  It came in the ACR kit I purchased.  If there is am M series switch that would work, I'm not opposed to packaging this stuff up and sending it back.

Yes, the "kit" comes with the standard sized switch, but you can get the mini switch and ACR a-la-carte. 

1 hour ago, JeffK said:

, I’ve seen two diagrams for acr installs and wanted to verify which is the best or most appropriate way to do this. One shows breakers inline and the other doesn’t. Will both work safely?  If you loop the acr back to the posts on the switch, is an additional fuse or breaker not necessary?  And if so, wouldn’t you run those acr leads back to the batter side of the switch and not the house load and starter side?

Theres 2 reasons why I edited the original blue sea diagram to what it reflects now. The ACR has a small parasitic draw. This can run the batteries down over long layups. More importantly, if there is a dual bank charger in the mix, the ACR  would combine, essentially making one bank. In the edited version, the ACR is taken out of the loop, when the switch is off. No draw, will not combine when charger is in use. 

[JeffK]

Thanks for the explanation guys.  Makes total sense!  Appreciate it!

[minnmarker]

Why do you even need a switch with the ACR?  If one battery runs the stereo and the other the starter and lights there is no need for a switch.

[shawndoggy]

Just now, minnmarker said:

Why do you even need a switch with the ACR?  If one battery runs the stereo and the other the starter and lights there is no need for a switch.

Not this again!

See discussion above about dual bank battery charger.

Some of us also like to be able to "turn the boat off" so as to not accidentally leave a ballast pump running and find out you can't start next weekend when you get to the ramp.  Not that anyone would ever be that dumb.  But, you know, maybe your spouse or kids would be. 

[formulaben]

Yeah, definitely count me as a "yes" to a master switch.  When I leave the boat at the slip, I turn the switch off and know that the only way the batteries will be drained with if the bilge pump has been running a lot...which means you have bigger problems than a drained house battery.  Whether it is the slip or garage, with the switch off I know I'll have no DC power issues when it's time to go play.

[minnmarker]

 

[JeffK]

20 minutes ago, formulaben said:

Yeah, definitely count me as a "yes" to a master switch.  When I leave the boat at the slip, I turn the switch off and know that the only way the batteries will be drained with if the bilge pump has been running a lot...which means you have bigger problems than a drained house battery.  Whether it is the slip or garage, with the switch off I know I'll have no DC power issues when it's time to go play.

I tend to be in this camp as well.  I know it is overkill, but that's always the way I have approached things and the peace of mind is worth it for me.  Plus, there are times when the system needs a reboot due to a freezing screen or something else and this is much easier than breaking out the wrenches.

[ElHeffe]

@shawndoggy what would be considered a "house load" in the diagram?

[shawndoggy]

the red wire that goes to the helm.  May or may not go to a breaker first before heading to the helm.

[ElHeffe]

@shawndoggy thanks

[MLA]

Anything you do not want drawing from the cranking battery when the engine is off, would be a house load. Any loads on the same side of the switch as the cranking battery, could potentially draw the cranking battery down, while at anchor. 

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, MLA said:

Anything you do not want drawing from the cranking battery when the engine is off, would be a house load. Any loads on the same side of the switch as the cranking battery, could potentially draw the cranking battery down, while at anchor. 

but not as drawn on my diagram.  That would put ballast pumps and stereo on the same side of the switch.  My diagram puts the stereo on one side of the switch and "everything else" on the other side.  An argument can certainly be made for putting stereo and other house loads on the same side of the switch, especially where there's a traditional keyed ignition switch that is powered from the starting battery side of the switch.  I'm not sure whether that's the case for all of the screens and touchpads on a modern malibu?

Anyhow the design "my way" is to allow the stereo to run independently of the rest of the boat at rest, so that you can run the stereo battery to nothing.  But if you were running ballast pumps too long or there was another parasitic or ignored draw, you could potentially deplete both.

[MLA]

8 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

or there was another parasitic or ignored draw, you could potentially deplete both.

Exact point of my post. Theres potential to deplete both banks with the house loads spit between both banks. Stereo should be considered a house load, along with ballast, anchor lights, courtesy lights, AC, Frig, spot light, windless, etc. If one does not want the rest of the house loads drawing off the house battery so to get longer life for the stereo, then they do not have enough house bank reserve for the job.