Tesla Cybertruck

[85 Barefoot]

9 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Nope.  Norway.

only by ratio, not raw numbers.

That aside, I of course also mean engineering, development,  and production of EVs, and those companies' ownership.  I chuckle at people who buy toyotas and say they're good for America because they build cars here.  They fail to realize that the PROFIT is shipped overseas.  Here, in your Norway example, Tesla is the NUMBER ONE selling car.  Designed by, built by, and owned by, Americans...and we here at home stick our head in the sand and decry this transition because it will cause gas prices to go...up.

[85 Barefoot]

6 minutes ago, COOP said:

https://tesletter.com/hit-pole-tesla-model-s-cost-fix-it/

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/20/heres-what-7000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-3/

https://enrg.io/this-is-what-30000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-s/

https://www.tflcar.com/2019/06/tesla-model-3-repair-story/

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/insane-cost-repair-teslas-achilles-heel

every one of those appears to be an insurance claim.  Big difference between "repair" and "body shop repair due to an accident or comp claim".

[oldjeep]

5 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

every one of those appears to be an insurance claim.  Big difference between "repair" and "body shop repair due to an accident or comp claim".

True.  Curious what it costs to insure a tesla for comp/collision vs another car of the same MSRP?  Side note - in one of those articles, someone had optioned a model 3 up to 79K?  Holy crap

Edited November 27, 2019 by oldjeep

[Eagleboy99]

One of my kids popped a headlamp and cracked a (plastic - bolt on replacment) fender on an Outlander.  I figured two grand, tops.  Nope!  Almost $7K CAD with the car rental.  Little wonder insurance rates continue to climb.  

[Eagleboy99]

43 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

not raw numbers.

Once again, Nope.  By numbers - China.

[85 Barefoot]

21 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Once again, Nope.  By numbers - China.

 I never said Norway led in Numbers, you did.  I responded that's only true for ratio, not raw numbers.  Have a Happy Thanksgiving.    

[justgary]

So, what is the hangup you guys sense with EVs and cold weather?  The motors won't care (and will probably enjoy extra cooling).  The batteries do care, but it's useful to consider a few points:

- You generally don't want to stuff the battery full every time you charge.  You can seriously reduce the lifetime of the battery by doing that.  90 to 95% is a good target.  Of course, that will reduce the total range available to the vehicle.  You probably don't want to take the batteries to zero, either.  The bottom line is the less you cycle lithium batteries, the longer they last.

- The batteries will warm significantly during a quick charge, so you probably won't get a reduced charge compared to a summer day.

- The batteries warm during discharge, so the same thing applies.  Tesla has to actively manage battery pack temperature, so I suspect that cold weather actually helps them do that.  The only time I see range as a factor is sustained highway driving, so the batteries will be plenty warm (potentially, with the heat used in the cabin).

Perhaps someone with actual cold tesla experience can chime in.

By the way, is there a cold temperature at which your ICE vehicle won't fully warm?  That would affect your range also, but I imagine it would have to be *very* cold.

[Sixball]

So our winters run from 20F to -20F norm.  EV vehicles don't heat the interior well at least all I have had reports from. The lose in range is significant in the EV vehicles we have had reports from. Dealers are few and far so no chance if a dealer is not performing to just move to another. How long to get parts?  As the vehicle ages what is the decline of value? the next owner is not going to be exceeded to drop good cash if they expect to go spend big bucks for new batteries.  I am one who does not think EV's are nearly as clean as made out to be. The production of batteries is not a low emission poses and recycling of them is not cheep easy or complete. The power to do both is very significant. So did we save any emissions or is a clean natural gas electric plant as good?  Same thing for many of the alternate fuels. Corn ethanol requires six gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Maybe water is more precious then the fuel it makes add in the loss of fuel economy from those fuels. And a ton of our tax money going into all of this. The industry's can not stand on there own yet. Even small things like emergency response teams need to carry special fire fighting equipment for fighting fires on EV vehicles.  I for one just am not willing to jump an this wagon yet or maybe ever. I do see Hi Bread vehicles being something I would like to see more work on.                

[Eagleboy99]

4 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

 I never said Norway led in Numbers, you did.  I responded that's only true for ratio, not raw numbers.  Have a Happy Thanksgiving.    

The point, numbers, per capita etc. is that the USA is not #1.

[Eagleboy99]

28 minutes ago, Sixball said:

So our winters run from 20F to -20F norm.  EV vehicles don't heat the interior well at least all I have had reports from. The lose in range is significant in the EV vehicles we have had reports from. Dealers are few and far so no chance if a dealer is not performing to just move to another. How long to get parts?  As the vehicle ages what is the decline of value? the next owner is not going to be exceeded to drop good cash if they expect to go spend big bucks for new batteries.  I am one who does not think EV's are nearly as clean as made out to be. The production of batteries is not a low emission poses and recycling of them is not cheep easy or complete. The power to do both is very significant. So did we save any emissions or is a clean natural gas electric plant as good?  Same thing for many of the alternate fuels. Corn ethanol requires six gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Maybe water is more precious then the fuel it makes add in the loss of fuel economy from those fuels. And a ton of our tax money going into all of this. The industry's can not stand on there own yet. Even small things like emergency response teams need to carry special fire fighting equipment for fighting fires on EV vehicles.  I for one just am not willing to jump an this wagon yet or maybe ever. I do see Hi Bread vehicles being something I would like to see more work on.                

Our winters can be worse. I'm 99.9% positive our next SUV will be hybrid.  Really liking the Toyota RAV4 Prime AWD PHEV.  0-10 in under 6, 2.8 l/100, gas motor for winter and long trips with short trips 100% electric.  10 year warranty on the battery.

[Eagleboy99]

Just now, Eagleboy99 said:

emergency response teams need to carry special fire fighting equipment for fighting fires on EV vehicles

nah, you just need a lift and a seacan.    https://www.motor1.com/news/315476/bmw-i8-fire-reponse-netherlands/

[bamaboy]

I've read 7 pages (and by read I mean try to choke down 7 words in a post before my eyes bleed) and I've come to this conclusion....

 

HATERS. GONNA.  HATE

[justgary]

17 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

I've read 7 pages (and by read I mean try to choke down 7 words in a post before my eyes bleed) and I've come to this conclusion....

 

HATERS. GONNA.  HATE

Whoa.  If your eyes are bleeding, you should see a doctor. 

[Bozboat]

12 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

there's virtually no gov't subsidies available anymore for teslas.  

 

High cost of repairs?   8 year warranty suggests what?  there's nothing going to break.  virtually no maintenance.  Talk to some more people with Teslas and ask about operating and maintenance costs.  I've found they all rave.  

Tesla Fleet Economics are Promising

[BlindSquirrel]

I’m in for electric. Have they figured out how the electric vehicles pay their way on the road? There is a tax on fuel to pay for the roads they use... has that been figured out yet?

[85 Barefoot]

2 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

The point, numbers, per capita etc. is that the USA is not #1.

What I said was that America is “leading the way”.   You’ve then suggested it was Norway, then China, and now, essentially anyone not the US.  

If you’ve got something productive to add, do so, if not, again, Happy Thanksgiving....and have a great day tomorrow.  

[roeboat]

1 hour ago, BlindSquirrel said:

I’m in for electric. Have they figured out how the electric vehicles pay their way on the road? There is a tax on fuel to pay for the roads they use... has that been figured out yet?

I know in Illinois they want to raise the annual registration for electric cars from $17.50 to $1000 a year to compensate for lost revenue.

[oldjeep]

14 minutes ago, roeboat said:

I know in Illinois they want to raise the annual registration for electric cars from $17.50 to $1000 a year to compensate for lost revenue.

Mn has had similiar proposals, but it was around $250 a year surcharge over normal registration.  Current surcharge is $75. 

[Eagleboy99]

55 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

What I said was that America is “leading the way”.

Leading what exactly?  So far not in total number, not in per capita, not in units produced...  Other than California, EVs are unicorns.

[Eagleboy99]

20 minutes ago, roeboat said:

I know in Illinois they want to raise the annual registration for electric cars from $17.50 to $1000 a year to compensate for lost revenue.

Yeah, up here there is a gas tax that is purportedly for roads (it usualy winds up going to general revenue then squandered). I figure an EV and a bicycle and let some other ICE shlepps pay for my roads. 

[Nitrousbird]

12 hours ago, COOP said:

https://tesletter.com/hit-pole-tesla-model-s-cost-fix-it/

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/20/heres-what-7000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-3/

https://enrg.io/this-is-what-30000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-s/

https://www.tflcar.com/2019/06/tesla-model-3-repair-story/

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/insane-cost-repair-teslas-achilles-heel

Did you actually READ these articles?  I'm guessing not.

[minnmarker]

Does anyone know what insurance costs are for Teslas compared to an equal value vehicle?

[Eagleboy99]

7 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Does anyone know what insurance costs are for Teslas compared to an equal value vehicle?

Model X vs Q7 - about 30% more for the Tesla.  Off kanetix.ca

[Pnwrider]

14 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Other than California, EVs are unicorns.

Um, not by a long shot. At one of the offices I work at, the 4 charging stations are constantly being used. Several immediate coworkers have Tesla’s, hard to drive a block without seeing an EV of some sort around here. 

[RyanB]

7 hours ago, minnmarker said:

Does anyone know what insurance costs are for Teslas compared to an equal value vehicle?

I don't know that one.  But I do know that liability claims cost more than property damage, and with all the built in safety features in a Tesla, that might actually make them less to insure despite being more expensive to repair.