GM strike and malibu motors

[audipwr1]

The motor I am being quoted in my 2020 23 lsv is a Monsoon 6.2L 410 - is that the 2018 raptor motor that got the lukewarm reviews? 

For us uneducated can you explain the difference between that and the new motor GM was supposed to supply? Power? Noise? fuel consumption? Reliability? 

[granddaddy55]

1 hour ago, audipwr1 said:

The motor I am being quoted in my 2020 23 lsv is a Monsoon 6.2L 410 - is that the 2018 raptor motor that got the lukewarm reviews? 

For us uneducated can you explain the difference between that and the new motor GM was supposed to supply? Power? Noise? fuel consumption? Reliability? 

yes that’s the raptor , 409 would be PCM or crusader 
Noise, fuel consumption better on M, actual motor reliability should be similar and the raptor was powerful but loud , so both with surfpipe most said m was quieter , I think you have to go M6 to be equal to or better than the raptor on power 

M is supposed to be more fuel efficient 

haven’t heard about as Many codes thrown with the M versus raptor 

the winterization is supposed to be A little easier as well as maintenance  on the M motor 

but I believe the Raptor has 5 or 6 easy plugs for winterization for the open cool part 

Edited October 24, 2019 by granddaddy55

[greg2222]

So it’s tru they cannot sell M240 with LT4 engine?

[Wakesetter67]

For me it was just the noise, Which didn't really bother me in my 2018, But once I demoed the new M6 there was a big difference. Now as far as power, Our 410 Raptor did great for surfing, but we did have to drain the 2 rear bags to about half to get it to plane faster when switching over to wakeboard. I'm not sure how many of you run that heavy in the first place, but I have a few riders that like it that way!  That being said I would assume the 450 Raptor would have been equal in power to the M6?  Maybe since they cant get the M6 & M5 for a short time, Just offer the 450 at a highly discounted rate as a compensation!  I believe I got my order in just in time for the M6. It really comes down to this If you want a new boat, Try to find a dealer with the M5 or M6 already equip boats, Or settle for a New boat with what ever Malibu can find to replace for a short time.  My guess is the longer you wait to order maybe the better chance to get the engine you want to allow GM to catch up on production! 

[Cole2001]

The raptor engines also run better on high octane versus the GM which is fine on regular. 

[23LSVOwner]

7 hours ago, greg2222 said:

So it’s tru they cannot sell M240 with LT4 engine?

If they have stock, yes they can.

[Slurpee]

I was reading on this topic of engine "efficiency" as I was collecting a bunch of fuel consumption numbers in my boat and the dealer's boats and friend's boats this summer.  How it read to me was that the Raptor engines don't lose much of anything on fuel efficiency to the M6Di. 

Really all these engines are modern and they all have BSFC (i.e. efficiencies) in the mid 50% range.  Gas converts to the energy needed to move the boat.  You just don't do too much better on efficiency than what you get today already.  From another perspective.  Engines ranging from 0.5 to 0.6 BSFC cover the gamut.  An engine/boat build that could use up a full tank of gas on the water in 8 hours with a 0.5 BSFC would only lose out about another 1.25hrs to a super efficient 0.6 BSFC engine.  It's hard to get exact numbers from engine publications, but what I gleaned was that the DI and other improvements to the engine might have bumped the M6DI ~3% up in fuel efficiency from the Raptor.  That's cool, but doesn't translate much to me as valuable.  I'd love to hear some engine nerd talk from the gear heads on this topic.  I'd learn more I think than trying to apply academics on automotive applications to marine where there's only one gear.

Now you CAN make big impacts with prop selection and transmission ratios from what we saw (20% swings or more), but the engine... not so much.  I have the Raptor, and it is a bit loud.  But tons of power.  Also, don't bag on the noise though too much.  In 2017 they used more material around the engine (i.e. thicker HDPE and such) and that mitigated a lot of the sound.  I did the same thing by adding MLV around mine.  Just that attention to noise is enough to get it down to around the same volume of the M6DI and PCM motors.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Slurpee

[85 Barefoot]

12 hours ago, audipwr1 said:

The motor I am being quoted in my 2020 23 lsv is a Monsoon 6.2L 410 - is that the 2018 raptor motor that got the lukewarm reviews? 

For us uneducated can you explain the difference between that and the new motor GM was supposed to supply? Power? Noise? fuel consumption? Reliability? 

yes...I"d disagree with lukewarm reviews though.  I had two and found them to be great engines.  Have I had issues with my other pcm or GM indmars?  No, but the raptor performed great and I didn't find it excessively loud.  

[bbattiste247]

On 10/22/2019 at 4:00 PM, UWSkier said:

I just know the Malibu engines have been getting great reviews for their performance, noise levels, fuel economy, and ease of maintenance.  The Raptor 2020s will be kindof viewed as one-offs.

Wonder what happens with the TXi.  Raptor isn't an AWSA-approved engine for that boat.

After having two 23 lsv' s with the Raptor motor and now a 25 lsv with the GM motor, I MUCH prefer the new Malibu motor. It is quieter, more efficient and the power is incredible. With lead in my boat, 15 people, full ballast and pnp's, there has never been an issue with power. But I often had power issues with the Raptor. 

[85 Barefoot]

1 hour ago, bbattiste247 said:

After having two 23 lsv' s with the Raptor motor and now a 25 lsv with the GM motor, I MUCH prefer the new Malibu motor. It is quieter, more efficient and the power is incredible. With lead in my boat, 15 people, full ballast and pnp's, there has never been an issue with power. But I often had power issues with the Raptor. 

That is not an apples to apples comparison.  Not saying raptor would outperform, but longer hulls perform much better with weight, and you have a major prop difference.  

[oldjeep]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/business/gm-strike-uaw-vote/index.html

Crisis averted.  Gm can go back to building v8's, trucks, suvs that a lot of people want and small cars that nobody wants. 

[Eagleboy99]

16 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/business/gm-strike-uaw-vote/index.html

Crisis averted.  Gm can go back to building v8's, trucks, suvs that a lot of people want and small cars that nobody wants. 

OMG - back to the climate crisis/emergency!

[ahopkins22LSV]

Thank god. What no one talks about is how this affects everyone outside of GM. Suppliers have been dying as they’ve been off this entire time too. 

[UWSkier]

so will there still be Indmars and PCMs in 2020s?

[ahopkins22LSV]

20 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

so will there still be Indmars and PCMs in 2020s?

My guess is yes. There is a significant pipeline to fill just internally for GM. But I could be wrong. I don’t know how orders go through their engine plants. 

[justgary]

1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/business/gm-strike-uaw-vote/index.html

Crisis averted.  Gm can go back to building v8's, trucks, suvs that a lot of people want and small cars that nobody wants. 

I say we keep right on hypothecating as if nothing has changed.  It's much more fun this way.

[timmypop]

Just did my lake test and got the bad news on the m6. I was a couple of days behind in keeping up with the forum. Offering a $2k discount on the stock raptor. Also learned Malibu will get Indmar and Axis will get PCM. Some parts from Malibu like sensors are being shipped to Indmar to take care of some issues they had back in the day. Some people were concerned of this. CEO addressed this in his call with dealers a few days ago. 

 

Still learning. Just got an update again from my dealer about a possibility for an M6 in my 2020 but I'll hold back that info until I know for sure. 

[jjackkrash]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

My guess is yes. There is a significant pipeline to fill just internally for GM. But I could be wrong. I don’t know how orders go through their engine plants. 

I am not sure this is still the case, but I read once a while back that GM could produce all of the marine V8s they sold for the year globally in just 2 shifts at one of their factories.  I would be curious to see how many marine engines are actually sold now versus autos.  In any event, I would be surprised if there was any lasting shortage of GM engines for the marine market given how small the segment is compared to autos.  

[ahopkins22LSV]

5 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

I am not sure this is still the case, but I read once a while back that GM could produce all of the marine V8s they sold for the year globally in just 2 shifts at one of their factories.  I would be curious to see how many marine engines are actually sold now versus autos.  In any event, I would be surprised if there was any lasting shortage of GM engines for the marine market given how small the segment is compared to autos.  

I have no doubt they could produce that many that fast, but no one wants to hold inventory of any kind. Malibu obviously didn’t have the year worth of inventory they needed and I doubt GM is holding onto and just didn’t have anyone to ship it. I could be wrong but my guess is they batch build to keep inventory costs low. 

[Woodski]

Second tier needs run across several markets, not only marine but also basic crate engine sales, industrial, performance parts sales, etc.  Time delay will also include build schedules at PCM, Merc, Illmor, Volvo, etc.  The marine market delay just points out the fact that GM engines are the main (and best) choice for the small boat marine market.    

[TenTwentyOne]

7 hours ago, Woodski said:

Second tier needs run across several markets, not only marine but also basic crate engine sales, industrial, performance parts sales, etc.  Time delay will also include build schedules at PCM, Merc, Illmor, Volvo, etc.  The marine market delay just points out the fact that GM engines are the main (and cheapest) choice for the small boat marine market.    

Fixed that for you.......

[SouthsideBoarder]

On 10/24/2019 at 12:11 PM, Slurpee said:

I was reading on this topic of engine "efficiency" as I was collecting a bunch of fuel consumption numbers in my boat and the dealer's boats and friend's boats this summer.  How it read to me was that the Raptor engines don't lose much of anything on fuel efficiency to the M6Di. 

Really all these engines are modern and they all have BSFC (i.e. efficiencies) in the mid 50% range.  Gas converts to the energy needed to move the boat.  You just don't do too much better on efficiency than what you get today already.  From another perspective.  Engines ranging from 0.5 to 0.6 BSFC cover the gamut.  An engine/boat build that could use up a full tank of gas on the water in 8 hours with a 0.5 BSFC would only lose out about another 1.25hrs to a super efficient 0.6 BSFC engine.  It's hard to get exact numbers from engine publications, but what I gleaned was that the DI and other improvements to the engine might have bumped the M6DI ~3% up in fuel efficiency from the Raptor.  That's cool, but doesn't translate much to me as valuable.  I'd love to hear some engine nerd talk from the gear heads on this topic.  I'd learn more I think than trying to apply academics on automotive applications to marine where there's only one gear.

Now you CAN make big impacts with prop selection and transmission ratios from what we saw (20% swings or more), but the engine... not so much.  I have the Raptor, and it is a bit loud.  But tons of power.  Also, don't bag on the noise though too much.  In 2017 they used more material around the engine (i.e. thicker HDPE and such) and that mitigated a lot of the sound.  I did the same thing by adding MLV around mine.  Just that attention to noise is enough to get it down to around the same volume of the M6DI and PCM motors.

What is MLV and how did you install it? Recommended supplier? Any pics?

Is it permanent?

Interested in using it on my ‘18 LSV. 

Thanks

[Slurpee]

1 hour ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

What is MLV and how did you install it? Recommended supplier? Any pics?

Is it permanent?

Interested in using it on my ‘18 LSV. 

Thanks

Howdy, here's the thread I did on the topic from a couple years ago.  My supplier retired and closed his doors, but you can find the same stuff out there if you look around.  It's a real chore to do right, but it did help a decent bit with the machine noise from the engine.  And it's removable.  I always remove it before taking it into the dealer for any reason.  The first time they saw it they tore it in places trying to figure out what to do with it.  My fault for not taking it out first.  Just forgot about it.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Slurpee

[Jhucke]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:50 PM, ahopkinsVTX said:

I have no doubt they could produce that many that fast, but no one wants to hold inventory of any kind. Malibu obviously didn’t have the year worth of inventory they needed and I doubt GM is holding onto and just didn’t have anyone to ship it. I could be wrong but my guess is they batch build to keep inventory costs low. 

I doubt GM holds any inventory at all in the sense you are thinking.  Also I would be willing to bet supplying Malibu with engines is more of a nuisance to GM than anything as they definitely make more money if that engine ends up in a vehicle instead. GM doesn't 'have' two days to build crate engines to sell to others, the engine factories are insane. Probably all built on off-days.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Jhucke

[COOP]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:43 PM, jjackkrash said:

I am not sure this is still the case, but I read once a while back that GM could produce all of the marine V8s they sold for the year globally in just 2 shifts at one of their factories.  I would be curious to see how many marine engines are actually sold now versus autos.  In any event, I would be surprised if there was any lasting shortage of GM engines for the marine market given how small the segment is compared to autos.  

We've been told it could be well after the first of the year for Malibu motors.