Speed Control options 2006 RLXI HH383

[HitIt]

In short, what are my speed control options for my 2006 RLXI with 383 Hammerhead?  Paddle wheel PP, ZO w/ECM accessory?  Ugh, thinking I should have bought newer. 

 

[BlindSquirrel]

Can’t you put star gazer perfect pass on it? Uses gps to control speed and easy to install. At least on a 350 it is.

[PaulH86]

You're a prime candidate for Perfect Pass Star Gazer.   Should be able to do the install yourself if you want to.

[ahopkins22LSV]

@UWSkier has his perfect pass zbox dialed in.

[UWSkier]

Your boat is TBW but PP SG v9.x with Zbox feels really nice on my 01. Are you looking to emulate ZO? Ski a course? 

[Woodski]

What is your objective?  What will you be using it for?

Your #1 option - Perfect Pass, that will operate with your system.  http://perfectpass.com/

PP systems:  http://perfectpass.com/?q=systems

If 3 event or slalom is your priority, Stargazer 3 event and if you want to emulate Zero Off, the Z box is their version of a ZO emulator.  ZO will not be compatible with your ECM unless it accidentally happens to be a 2007 Econtrols one.  PP works very well so don't fret the fact you are not going to have the 'latest' option.  Just my opinion, way too much is made of the perceived need for ZO to practice what pulls tournaments.  There is as much difference across boat & engine combinations as there is in the two speed control brands until you are at the Nationals, pro or Big Dawg level to be overly concerned.  Is ZO nice, absolutely and very easy to use but not worth losing sleep over.  The ZO pull can be emulated with PP Classic (paddle wheel version) via baseline, kx, px and skier weight settings but that is for another day.  The one negative that keeps being talked about with PP Stargazer is dialing it in for a short ski course setup, although PP released a new cal that seems to help a lot.

There are other systems on the market, but pre 07 boats PP is the gold standard.

[HitIt]

Thanks to all...  it’ll primarily used for slalom course behind my home.  So, PP Stargazer package I get.  What is the ZBox add on?  It emulates ZO?  In what way?  TIA!

[UWSkier]

It's an accelerometer that sits inline between the GPS puck and the master module. You mount it in a specific direction so it can sense when the skier is pulling. When enabled, the boat will throttle up on the skier pull just like ZO does. Even has the same ABC123 settings. I ski my boat with PP and Zbox and ZO boats at C2 and can't really tell a difference. 

[UWSkier]

Listen to the engine note in this video from this morning for an idea.  Then find a video from a ZeroOff pass from in the boat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/c6Ui55PS85b7CEgM7

[85 Barefoot]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:31 AM, UWSkier said:

Your boat is TBW but PP SG v9.x with Zbox feels really nice on my 01. Are you looking to emulate ZO? Ski a course? 

you sure about that?  An 06 being TBW?  First throttle by wires were correct crafts in 07 I had always thought?  While star gazer is of course fine, he needs servo doesn't he?

 

to OP, unless you're course skiing a lot, with intention to compete, there is nothing wrong with perfect pass.  At all.  In fact most people still prefer it from the end of the rope.  It's just that for the last 10 years zero off is used in competitions and has a different feel.  There is nothing wrong w ppass tho.  It still provides course mapping and all buoy times.

Edited October 21, 2019 by 85 Barefoot

[UWSkier]

8 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

you sure about that?  An 06 being TBW?  First throttle by wires were correct crafts in 07 I had always thought?  While star gazer is of course fine, he needs servo doesn't he?

 

to OP, unless you're course skiing a lot, with intention to compete, there is nothing wrong with perfect pass.  At all.  In fact most people still prefer it from the end of the rope.  It's just that for the last 10 years zero off is used in competitions and has a different feel.  There is nothing wrong w ppass tho.  It still provides course mapping and all buoy times.

Yes.  Still shift by cable but was throttle by wire starting with the '06.  That's the first year of the "Malibu Cruise."

[85 Barefoot]

13 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Yes.  Still shift by cable but was throttle by wire starting with the '06.  That's the first year of the "Malibu Cruise."

uw,  then when was first year one could install after market zero off?  Is there an ECM reflash for 06s and later without repower?

[UWSkier]

Presumably there's a way to make the 06 work but I've always read it needs to be 07+

[SkiPablo]

Perfect Pass can still sell you a module for Throttle by wire as long as your boat is 2008 and older.  They call it DBW on there modules.   I have seen plenty of those floating around on ebay b/c they only did those from 2005-2008 i believe.   I would call them to see what they can do.

 

[Woodski]

Zero Off requires an e Controls ECU, that is the kicker.  Info I have seen, the e Control ECU was launched in '07 but I could be incorrect on it.  Don't think the first Malibu ECU's were e Control units so that is a verification required prior to purchase.

FYI - I have gone back and forth between PP and ZO boats and have tuned a PP to be a very close replication of a ZO boat.  As big a difference can be noticed across different hulls and even more so on different engine combos so just my opinion, the 'requirement' for ZO is more mental than actual.  ZO is significantly easier to use and is a great system but that is a luxury.  It seems that the ZO 'mandate' by some is simply providing an excuse or reason to acquire a new boat.  Don't forget, when ZO was first introduced it was not love at first sight, just go back to some old threads on the subject.

Opinions and info from others on latest PP upgrade:  https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/21938/perfect-pass-3-event-version-9/p1

PP does require a fair amount of tuning and calibration effort which can be tedious, so that is clearly a check in the ZO bucket.  

Edited October 22, 2019 by Woodski

[UWSkier]

1 hour ago, Woodski said:

Zero Off requires an e Controls ECU, that is the kicker.  Info I have seen, the e Control ECU was launched in '07 but I could be incorrect on it.  Don't think the first Malibu ECU's were e Control units so that is a verification required prior to purchase.

FYI - I have gone back and forth between PP and ZO boats and have tuned a PP to be a very close replication of a ZO boat.  As big a difference can be noticed across different hulls and even more so on different engine combos so just my opinion, the 'requirement' for ZO is more mental than actual.  ZO is by significantly easier to use and is a great system but that is a luxury.  It seems that the ZO 'mandate' by some is simply providing an excuse or reason to acquire a new boat.  Don't forget, when ZO was first introduced it was not love at first sight, just go back to some old threads on the subject.

Opinions and info from others on latest PP upgrade:  https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/21938/perfect-pass-3-event-version-9/p1

PP does require a fair amount of tuning and calibration effort which can be tedious, so that is clearly a check in the ZO bucket.  

Right.  Need an E-Controls unit, which is why the ZO upgrade on those older Malibus is expensive.  I know you can get one for '07 but it's a few grand.  I'm not sure if there were motor changes from '06 to '07 that would prohibit you from running the '07 ECU.  It would be pretty awesome to have a first gen RLXi with ZO.

[SkiPablo]

On 10/4/2019 at 2:44 PM, UWSkier said:

Listen to the engine note in this video from this morning for an idea.  Then find a video from a ZeroOff pass from in the boat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/c6Ui55PS85b7CEgM7

Nice skiing !   What letter are you using on Zbox ?  

[UWSkier]

 

15 minutes ago, SkiPablo said:

Nice skiing !   What letter are you using on Zbox ?  

Thanks.  C2

[windsurfnut]

@UWSkier @Woodski

Care to share your PPSG /Zbox settings?  ZBOX value, KX, and ball settings.  I've been working on a PerfectPass database https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UsM99RDC-YlpybtqcjCv1-0ArnljSR_lNVITXSYwElA/edit#gid=0  to help users understand and dial in their boats.  There is certainly no "one setting fits all" but the database is beginning to shine some light on the mystery.  @uwskier, I heard your boat in the video you posted, its sounds VERY much like a ZO boat.

I'm generally intrigued with the background settings on PP.  Its a very cool product for our non ZO equipped boats.

[UWSkier]

Zbox 13, KX+, and ball settings default since sadly, I never use my boat in the course (but want the ZO feel).

[Joeprunc]

I know its an old thread, but a rare thread to have skiing, so I'll play.

 

It took awhile to dial in my PP ZBox V9.12. 2006 Response LXI  Monsoon motor.  Our course has an aggressive 90 degree left when coming in from the west end, makes it difficult to dial in, and requires a gentle throttle hand to get a good 1 ball. 

From another site this is what I did a few years ago when I got it dialed. 

What I did:
1) invert RPMs
2) re calibrate speeds (and map course)
3) Control Test passed (no change here)
4) Adjusted Ball 1 times by 2 less than PP settings.
5) adjusted CRS from 1900 rpm to 1850 rpm.

Ball times, entrance speed, and course speeds appear to be very very desirable.  With these settings we ski slow long line skiers, to 34.2@ -38'

I am very happy with now with this design and Zbox system.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Joeprunc