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Looking for new boat MC X22, Supra SA/SL, Nautique G23 or Malibu 22 MXZ


procos

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So I am looking to get a new boat. I am coming from a 2016 Malibu 22 VLX and we mostly surf. My 13 year old Wakeboards but I think he will soon be transitioning to surfing. Before the VLX I owned a 2013 24 MXZ. I think I prefer the pickle fork style nose over the V bow. So If anyone has any comments on any of these boats it would be great. I am going to get out and demo all 4 but still would like input. So boats I am looking at are:

Mastercraft X22 or XT22
Supra SA or SL
Ski Nautique G23
Malibu 23 MXZ or 23 LSV

Also How does the pricing go from most expensive to least? From what I have gathered I think from most to least would go. Nautique, Mastercraft, Supra and Malibu?

I really like my VLX but the cons and the reason I am looking for a new boat are: 

-Speed of filling balast
-The bow rides really high out of the water when someone is surfing(might just be the nature of the beast)
-Handling when returning to pick up a downed surfer
-Not sure is all boats need the extra PNP bags or if the stock ballast is enough.  Would love the answer.  My 22 VLX has the extra PNP bags and would rather not have to use them but maybe all boats need them to create a large enough wave to surf?


Thanks for all and any comments.

Chuck

Edited by procos
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Id skip the G23 all together. Too expensive and the wave isnt worth the price. If it were my money Id be looking centurion then supra. I know they arent on your list but they should be. Ramfill is the fastest filling ballast out there and IMO the centurion has the most adjustable wave out there.  

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Onewake09,

Thanks for the response.  I thought about the Centurion but I don't care for the graphics.  I know it shouldn't matter but I like looking at my boat and being proud.  To me the Centurion has cheesy graphics and I hate the knight and wave graphics on the boat.  Doesn't mean it isn't a killer surf boat just isn't my thing. 

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29 minutes ago, procos said:

cheesy graphics and I hate the knight and wave graphics on the boat

Which boat are you looking at?  And I suspect they are just decals that can be deleted:  no one does in-gel graphics anymore.

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2 hours ago, ORMailbuboater said:

Demo all is a great idea.  Think that will give you some answers.  My 2 cents below: 

Cost wise based on the models you show I estimate the order from most expensive to least expensive (Not necessarily best to least a boat just based on price) :  1) Nautique G23 2) Mastercraft X22 or XT22, 3) Supra SA or SL, 4) Malibu 22 MXZ.    These boat I think are not "apples to apples" comparison as far as size goes.  G23 is bigger than the 22s. Why not look at a Malibu 23MXZ or MC X23?   

I also speculate you have other motivators to get a new boat.  Your reasons for a new boat may not be fixed by a new boat.   Plus you say nothing about quality of wake which may or may not be better than your current 2013 24MXZ.  

- Speed of filling ballast - How much faster fill????  Adding bigger or multiple pumps could fix fill and empty speed.  Newer Malibu boats do fill faster I know but maybe not as fast as you want.
-The bow rides really high out of the water when someone is surfing(might just be the nature of the beast)  Set up optimization could help if you do not have enough bow weight.  Add "lead" or ballast bag to bow???
-Handling when returning to pick up a downed surfer  - My fastest way to pick up down surfer is to power down wait for wave to pass then turn to retrieve rider ~30 seconds.   Not sure a new boat is going to get you to down surfer faster.    Video on "proper way" to Pick up down surfer

 

Thanks for the reply.  My current boat is actually a 2016 22 VLX.  I owned a 2013 24 MXZ but traded it in for the VLX because I went from really big water to an inland lake and couldn't find a place that had a slip to accomodate the 24.

As for the bow riding high I have talked to a few people that have told me Supra and Mastercraft have fixed this problem without adding lead or bow bags to the boat.  I am not that interested in putting lead or bags on top of my cushions in the bow.  My boat currently has tank in the bow under the cushions  but it obviously is not enough.  My wave is awesome.  It is super tall and steep.  The only thing that I guess it could be improved upon is that it could be a tad longer.  But I think everybody wants their wave longer no matter how long it is. 

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4 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Which boat are you looking at?  And I suspect they are just decals that can be deleted:  no one does in-gel graphics anymore.

Its not just the decals on the boat it's on the tech deck and other areas.  Just don't like the knight head logo of the Centurion.  

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5 hours ago, onewake09 said:

Ramfill is the fastest filling ballast out there and IMO the centurion has the most adjustable wave out there.  

That should really say “Ramfill is the fastest way to fill half of your ballast”

Centurions aren’t nearly the fastest. They still take more than 10 minutes to fill, by the time you run the boat through the ramfill procedure, and then wait for the pumps to fill everything else. 

Fastest ballast fill/empty is going to be the MC (X series), especially if it has the fast fill option. Fast fill on the X22 is 3 minutes. The standard system takes a little over 6 minutes. 

Supra is going to be the second fastest to fill at 7-8 minutes.

Ri and Fi’s take about 9-10 minutes depending on the bag setup. 

The new Bu’s seem to be down to about 10 minutes now as well.

 

G23 is going to have the lowest bow attitude.

None of these are great for loaded handling, but the G23 is one of the worst. The Xt22 is also not that great. The X22, however, has a much bigger rudder than the others and turns much better with a heavy load.

 

Edited by TenTwentyOne
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6 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Fastest ballast fill/empty is going to be the MC (X series), especially if it has the fast fill option. Fast fill on the X22 is 3 minutes. The standard system takes a little over 6 minutes. 

None of these are great for loaded handling, but the G23 is one of the worst. The Xt22 is also not that great. The X22, however, has a much bigger rudder than the others and turns much better with a heavy load.

 

can confirm, Hi-Flo absolutely hauls at filling up the ballast, and the larger rudder on an X22 is nice. Bow rise isn't horrible, but with just about every surf boat, bow lead will help with that and lengthening the wave. Not sure how much a difference something like DockStar would make, but definitely something to consider or try out at a dealer. I don't suspect it'd make much of a difference going forward but still worth looking.

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On 8/21/2019 at 10:02 PM, TenTwentyOne said:

That should really say “Ramfill is the fastest way to fill half of your ballast”

Centurions aren’t nearly the fastest. They still take more than 10 minutes to fill, by the time you run the boat through the ramfill procedure, and then wait for the pumps to fill everything else. 

Fastest ballast fill/empty is going to be the MC (X series), especially if it has the fast fill option. Fast fill on the X22 is 3 minutes. The standard system takes a little over 6 minutes. 

Supra is going to be the second fastest to fill at 7-8 minutes.

Ri and Fi’s take about 9-10 minutes depending on the bag setup. 

The new Bu’s seem to be down to about 10 minutes now as well.

 

G23 is going to have the lowest bow attitude.

None of these are great for loaded handling, but the G23 is one of the worst. The Xt22 is also not that great. The X22, however, has a much bigger rudder than the others and turns much better with a heavy load.

 

Thanks a lot.  All this stuff is very helpful.  My buddy told me he just got a XT23 and takes delivery on Sunday so I will be able to ride that wave.  However I am way more interested in the X22.  But seems like MC sells 4 XT's to every 1 X.  So harder to find them.  I am going to demo the Supra and the Nautique but from all the research I have done the Nautique isn't worth the extra cash.  But I guess I will have to find out myself.  I have only talked to the Nautique and MC local dealer.  The Nautique dealer is a mom and pop shop with the husband, wife and daughter running the whole show which is appealing to me.  The MC dealer is a huge operation but seem to have a great rep.  My local Malibu dealer was bought out by Tommy's and so far it has been nothing but a huge improvement.  I have known the local General Manager at Tommy's for many years, our daughters played hockey together for a few years, and he has really bent over backwards for me so it will take a lot from another boat manufacturer to steal me away from being a Malibu guy but you have to check your options.  I do wish the picklefork on the Bu's were more streamlined like the MC, Nautiques and Supras.

Edited by procos
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Just added this question to my topic.  Do all surf boats need the extra PNP bags to make a good wake for surfing?  My VLX has the added PNP bags.  DO any newer boats not need the extra weight or do all of them need it?  If some don't who?

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21 minutes ago, procos said:

Just added this question to my topic.  Do all surf boats need the extra PNP bags to make a good wake for surfing?  My VLX has the added PNP bags.  DO any newer boats not need the extra weight or do all of them need it?  If some don't who?

My friends who have a Tige use meat ballast with the built-in tanks and they get a good wave.  But I think pretty much every overloads the boat with extra tanks.

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3 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

That should really say “Ramfill is the fastest way to fill half of your ballast”

Centurions aren’t nearly the fastest. They still take more than 10 minutes to fill, by the time you run the boat through the ramfill procedure, and then wait for the pumps to fill everything else. 

Fastest ballast fill/empty is going to be the MC (X series), especially if it has the fast fill option. Fast fill on the X22 is 3 minutes. The standard system takes a little over 6 minutes. 

Supra is going to be the second fastest to fill at 7-8 minutes.

Ri and Fi’s take about 9-10 minutes depending on the bag setup. 

The new Bu’s seem to be down to about 10 minutes now as well.

 

G23 is going to have the lowest bow attitude.

None of these are great for loaded handling, but the G23 is one of the worst. The Xt22 is also not that great. The X22, however, has a much bigger rudder than the others and turns much better with a heavy load.

 

 10 minutes to fill a Centurion? When is the last time you've been in one? You can fill the Ramfill and bags at the same time.. Once the ram fill is full and your rider is ready, your surfing in 5-6 min. 

To the OP, full disclosure I sell MC, Centurion, Supreme and MB Sports. Demo and factor in the dealer and see what you like best. I was in a 2016 G last spring and disappointed it didn't live up to the hype. Surfed a X22 recently and was really impressed. Super quiet. It has the same interior space as the outgoing X23. Surf left steep, 3 min, moved the starboard tab from 35% down to 50% down, 2 people in the boat, 2 bags of lead under each rear sac, center plate 10% down, Speed 11.2. Surfed 2017 22 MXZ last year, fun wave and boat. Can't comment on the Supra wave, haven't been behind a newer one.

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8 hours ago, procos said:

Thanks a lot.  All this stuff is very helpful.  My buddy told me he just got a XT23 and takes delivery on Sunday so I will be able to ride that wave.  However I am way more interested in the X22.  But seems like MC sells 4 XT's to every 1 X.  So harder to find them.  I am going to demo the Supra and the Nautique but from all the research I have done the Nautique isn't worth the extra cash.  But I guess I will have to find out myself.  I really dig everything I have been reading about the Supra but just not that hip on our local dealer.  I have only talked to the Nautique and MC local dealer.  The Nautique dealer is a mom and pop shop with the husband, wife and daughter running the whole show which is appealing to me.  The MC dealer is a huge operation but seem to have a great rep.  My local Malibu dealer was bought out by Tommy's and so far it has been nothing but a huge improvement.  I have known the local General Manager at Tommy's for many years, our daughters played hockey together for a few years, and he has really bent over backwards for me so it will take a lot from another boat manufacturer to steal me away from being a Malibu guy but you have to check your options.  I do wish the picklefork on the Bu's were more streamlined like the MC, Nautiques and Supras.

 

The XT23 isn’t going to have the wave that the X22 has. It also won’t handle as nice when loaded, or fill ballast as fast, but that is just a couple of the ways that they differentiate the two model lines.

 

7 hours ago, procos said:

Just added this question to my topic.  Do all surf boats need the extra PNP bags to make a good wake for surfing?  My VLX has the added PNP bags.  DO any newer boats not need the extra weight or do all of them need it?  If some don't who?

Quite honestly, with most of your “must haves”, it seems you’d be best suited in an XStar. It has the fastest fill time, best loaded handling, and open rear compartments for storage (G23, and SL also have the rear ballast all sub floor), and it doesn’t need any added ballast/bags in compartments.

I do run 150lbs of lead in the bow of my XStar, because none of my crew sit in the bow for some reason. So, I throw that 150 up front, so that I have good visibility without having to bolster the seat up.

4 hours ago, skurfer said:

 10 minutes to fill a Centurion? When is the last time you've been in one? You can fill the Ramfill and bags at the same time.. Once the ram fill is full and your rider is ready, your surfing in 5-6 min. 

 

Last year. Was a 2019 Ri237. I also demoed a 257 the year before. Admittedly, I am fairly biased to Nautique and MC, but I have really loved the centurions lately, and have looked at them when I have upgraded the last two years. I’m pretty sure the rep started filling the bags at the same time as he did the ramfill procedure, but maybe not? 

 

To the OP, I’d be curious on your views if you demo the SL and SA. I spend quite a bit of time on a SL, and a new SE, and I am VERY underwhelmed by the wave on both boats. The port wave is a joke, but the starboard wave is halfway decent. The rest of the boat is really well done.  

Unless both of my friends boats have something wrong with them, I think you’ll find the X22, 23LSV,  etc., will have much better waves, especially if you ride the port (Regular) wave.

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I don’t understand the “must have” of filling the ballast faster. I always fill when we start to think about surfing, usually when we are underway. By the time we stop, get a vest, get the rope on, it is pretty much time to go. 

As far as adding bow weight, as long as your lift or tow vehicle can handle it, no reason not to stash lead under the cushions. If there isn’t room for bags, make your own by filling pvc pipes with tire weights. I have 300 pounds of lead around my bow tank in my 23LSV. Just added a seat risers as well. Bow rise isn’t nearly the problem it was before I did that. 

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1 hour ago, RyanB said:

I don’t understand the “must have” of filling the ballast faster. I always fill when we start to think about surfing, usually when we are underway. By the time we stop, get a vest, get the rope on, it is pretty much time to go. 

As far as adding bow weight, as long as your lift or tow vehicle can handle it, no reason not to stash lead under the cushions. If there isn’t room for bags, make your own by filling pvc pipes with tire weights. I have 300 pounds of lead around my bow tank in my 23LSV. Just added a seat risers as well. Bow rise isn’t nearly the problem it was before I did that. 

Agree,

this has never been of concern for us.

22’s and 23’s will need bow weight across the board, nature of the beast.

in the spots we ride, we can surf 100 yards from the launch, or others have a 5-10 min run. If we are surfing close to the launch we fill while parking the truck, if we are making a run we start the fill about half way down the line.

 

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1 hour ago, RyanB said:

I don’t understand the “must have” of filling the ballast faster. I always fill when we start to think about surfing, usually when we are underway. By the time we stop, get a vest, get the rope on, it is pretty much time to go. 

As far as adding bow weight, as long as your lift or tow vehicle can handle it, no reason not to stash lead under the cushions. If there isn’t room for bags, make your own by filling pvc pipes with tire weights. I have 300 pounds of lead around my bow tank in my 23LSV. Just added a seat risers as well. Bow rise isn’t nearly the problem it was before I did that. 

Does the extra weight in the bow effect the way the boat rides when not surfing?

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6 minutes ago, procos said:

Does the extra weight in the bow effect the way the boat rides when not surfing?

IME, it helps a little.  I have a 22 VLX and run a couple hundred pounds of lead in the bow.  I don't notice any negative implications to the handling or driving characteristics of the boat.  The added bow weight when not surfing seems to assist in cutting through some chop however the benefit is nominal. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, procos said:

Does the extra weight in the bow effect the way the boat rides when not surfing?

 

2 hours ago, inlandlaker said:

IME, it helps a little.  I have a 22 VLX and run a couple hundred pounds of lead in the bow.  I don't notice any negative implications to the handling or driving characteristics of the boat.  The added bow weight when not surfing seems to assist in cutting through some chop however the benefit is nominal. 

 

 

I agree with Inlandlaker. It gets the bow lower to allow the deadrise in the hull to do its job cutting through waves. 

I see two downsides. One is it will make the swim platform sit higher out of the water. Not an issue when your rear tanks are full but it is more of a stretch to get in the boat when they are empty. Second is on the rare event I have multiple people who want to sit in the bow when surfing I have to be more careful with waves over the bow. On the plus side in addition to less bow rise you get a longer wake. 

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2 hours ago, inlandlaker said:

IME, it helps a little.  I have a 22 VLX and run a couple hundred pounds of lead in the bow.  I don't notice any negative implications to the handling or driving characteristics of the boat.  The added bow weight when not surfing seems to assist in cutting through some chop however the benefit is nominal. 

 

 

I see you are from brighton.  Cool I live in Bloomfield Hills.  What lake do you surf on?

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My buddy just water tested a G23 and I went along for the ride.  Boat is a really nice boat, but as others have said, not that much nicer when you start to compare cost!  Aside from expense I found that the surf wave was really tall and short.  The main seating area seemed a little tight for a 23'. The walk-through transom area was bigger then expected and took away some of the seating area in my opinion.  I did like that the bow rise was minimal and the boat handled chop fairly well.  I also liked the screen and functionality.  However at the end of the day, after hearing the price, i said to my buddy you could get a loaded LSV 25 and still have some change in your pocket!  

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40 minutes ago, procos said:

I see you are from brighton.  Cool I live in Bloomfield Hills.  What lake do you surf on?

We have a house on Whitmore Lake and a house on Brighton Lake.  Just moved to Brighton Lake full time but still using Whitmore.  Let's hook up.

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I'm sure this has been discussed before but why do pickle forks have a premium price tag compared to traditional bow? Or am I mistaken? I believe a 24MXZ equally optioned compared to a 25LSV is more expensive.

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