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New Prop Results 19' 23lsv


Mattyb

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Hey All, 

Posting this in hopes that info may be helpful for others.  Background: took delivery on the new boat in April and had fun down at lower elevations.  However, when we got up to our normal lake at around 5000 feet in elevation we could not 100% fill all ballast (including PnP bags) and get the boat up to speed with wedge anything beyond 2 clicks.  The best we could do was about 9mph, drain about 25% of the weight and we could get up to speed.  Also worth noting, that the boat was working hard RPM's were maxed out and could fee vibrations.  Couple other data points: 450 motor, high elevation prop installed from the factory.

Talked with the guys at Wake Makers after discussing on this forum.  Turns out the owner is also an owner, had the same issue (they are about 3.5 hours away, also high elevation).  They recommended this prop:

https://www.wakemakers.com/acme-2419-propeller.html

 

Had small issue that meant I had not had a chance to run it until this weekend.  Results: Can fill the boat 100% and run any wedge setting, the wave is awesome.  In addition, the RPM's are more reasonable, not maxed out and the boat is working far less hard.  no more vibrations.  Top speed dropped from 39 to 33, but we almost never go full out anyway so this makes no difference for us.

Hope that helps for anyone else having challenges at higher elevations!  Shout out to Wakemakers, I have had nothing but great experiences working with them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

dang.  a 2419 on a 1.72 transmission.  That just sounds soooooo unpleasant.  

what RPMs are you running at, say, 11 mph?  What about at 26?

Are you running any supplemental bow weight, and when you say PNP bags, which ones?

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23 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

dang.  a 2419 on a 1.72 transmission.  That just sounds soooooo unpleasant.  

what RPMs are you running at, say, 11 mph?  What about at 26?

Are you running any supplemental bow weight, and when you say PNP bags, which ones?

Funny, because its far more pleasant than the stock "high altitude" prop I had on there before.

about 5k rpms at 11mph, 5.2/5.3k at 32mph.  That said, it was not great at low altitude, really had the boat vibrating and not as pleasant.

(for reference, with the old prop it was running at red line before)

200 lbs of lead in the bow, 580's in the lockers: https://www.wakemakers.com/malibu-rear-factory-ballast-upgrade.html

One of the owners at wakemakers has the same boat, had the same issue, recommended this and its a great solution.

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13 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

Funny, because its far more pleasant than the stock "high altitude" prop I had on there before.

about 5k rpms at 11mph, 5.2/5.3k at 32mph.  That said, it was not great at low altitude, really had the boat vibrating and not as pleasant.

(for reference, with the old prop it was running at red line before)

200 lbs of lead in the bow, 580's in the lockers: https://www.wakemakers.com/malibu-rear-factory-ballast-upgrade.html

One of the owners at wakemakers has the same boat, had the same issue, recommended this and its a great solution.

You meant 4k rpms at 11mph, right?

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14 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

Funny, because its far more pleasant than the stock "high altitude" prop I had on there before.

about 5k rpms at 11mph, 5.2/5.3k at 32mph.  That said, it was not great at low altitude, really had the boat vibrating and not as pleasant.

(for reference, with the old prop it was running at red line before)

200 lbs of lead in the bow, 580's in the lockers: https://www.wakemakers.com/malibu-rear-factory-ballast-upgrade.html

One of the owners at wakemakers has the same boat, had the same issue, recommended this and its a great solution.

5000 RPM??:cry:  Do you drag a fuel tanker with you? 

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53 minutes ago, Mattyb said:

Funny, because its far more pleasant than the stock "high altitude" prop I had on there before.

about 5k rpms at 11mph, 5.2/5.3k at 32mph.  That said, it was not great at low altitude, really had the boat vibrating and not as pleasant.

check page 6: http://pcmengines.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/2020-PCM-MPI-Website-Technical-Information.pdf

5000 is way way way too high.  Max cruising rpm is 4000

You need more bow weight or less weight in the rear.

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Weighting/balance is a bigger issue than props from what I keep seeing. I've had my 409 PCM at 5,000' this year with the standard 2249 prop and didn't see over 4,000 RPMs all weekend (with full ballast and 5-7 in the boat most of the time). It was actually the same lake as the WM owner lives on.

Stepping up to the factory torque prop probably would've gotten me to 4,000-4,100 RPMs, assuming an extra 300-400 RPMs for prop step-up, from the 3,700-3,800 I saw using the 2249.

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1 hour ago, NWBU said:

Weighting/balance is a bigger issue than props from what I keep seeing.

Exactly!  The reason for a different (lower pitched) prop is that the motor can't push the weight and won't spin up into the meat of the torque curve.  But if you are spinning 5400 rpm, getting into the torque curve isn't the problem, and going to a lower pitched prop isn't the answer... and it going to a lower pitched prop does help anyway it just shows how terrible the OP's weight setup must be in the first place.  Basically if you run too nose-high, the prop shaft is pointing towards the bottom of the lake rather than forward, and you have to spin crazy rpms to get any forward momentum.  The answer to the "speed wall" (tm @IXFE) is not prop, it's balanced weighting.

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26 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Exactly!  The reason for a different (lower pitched) prop is that the motor can't push the weight and won't spin up into the meat of the torque curve.  But if you are spinning 5400 rpm, getting into the torque curve isn't the problem, and going to a lower pitched prop isn't the answer... and it going to a lower pitched prop does help anyway it just shows how terrible the OP's weight setup must be in the first place.  Basically if you run too nose-high, the prop shaft is pointing towards the bottom of the lake rather than forward, and you have to spin crazy rpms to get any forward momentum.  The answer to the "speed wall" (tm @IXFE) is not prop, it's balanced weighting.

Speaking of that guy, his 2016 (with the Raptor 410) was out all weekend on the same lake.

F04CC07B-9B79-49D6-B6A9-27ABB1730811.thumb.jpeg.331cf9d32faf438432351386afb31a5a.jpeg

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I’m running a 2277 on my 19 with the m6di. My surf rpms are 3400 goofy side, 3600 rpms regular. I feel the prop is slipping  some. Especially when cruising at higher rpms. Does anyone think I could sneak one of these 15.5 props under there without out gel burn? Would like to lower my rpms a bit more,  I’m confident in the m6di, power wise.

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11 minutes ago, surfdude said:

I’m running a 2277 on my 19 with the m6di. My surf rpms are 3400 goofy side, 3600 rpms regular. I feel the prop is slipping  some. Especially when cruising at higher rpms. Does anyone think I could sneak one of these 15.5 props under there without out gel burn? Would like to lower my rpms a bit more,  I’m confident in the m6di, power wise.

how much clearance do you have now?  On my MB (a couple of boats ago), which originally was spec'd with a 14" prop, I ran the 15" 2315 for several seasons with no burn and it gave me a hair less than 3/4" of clearance.  for what that's worth.  I'd be real curious about your experience if you chose to run one.  If you do which one would you go with?  Seems like 2849?

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Don’t know which one. I’ll check my clearance today. Offhand it looks somewhere around 3/4”  I’m assuming the 15.5 adds 1/4 “ over the 15. The 2277, I believe is a 15.75 pitch,  1.5 cup. don’t know what pitch in that size So I don’t know which 15.5 to try

Edited by surfdude
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Just now, surfdude said:

Don’t know which one. I’ll check my clearance today. Offhand it looks somewhere around 3/4”  I’m assuming the 15.5 adds 1/4 “ over the 15. The 2277, I believe is a 15.75 pitch, don’t know what pitch. So I don’t know which 15.5 to try

All things being equal, experience says that as you step up in diameter you need to step down a bit in pitch.  for instance 1235 to 2315 was a common step, and most people who were running a 1235 would find a 2249 to be too "tall".

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On the current boat the top speed doesn’t Change in the last 600 rpms,  not that I run it wot, for more than a few seconds, or very often. That’s why I think I’m getting some slip, and could lower my surf rpms some

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Besides potential Gel Burn, you're also going to get a noticeable increase in audible tone (100-300Hz) from the propeller as it gets closer to the hull.  It's basically the pressure of the blade hammering water into the hull as it passes closest 4x a revolution.

Hull Tone = 4 blades * 1.71 ratio * (RPM / 60sec_per_M) * 1/2_cylinders

It rings the whole hull enough to hear.  We all have it now, but get really close to the hull with a bigger prop and you'll hear it more.  Mostly at higher RPMs.  YMMV, just turn up the speakers.

I'm curious about your comment on slipping.  I'm missing something.  You describe your last 600rpm not pushing your top end speed any.  And the conclusion is a potential for slipping at surf-speeds.  How's that logic connection made?  I struggle with all the variables of props so this interested me.

My first thought was that if you wanted to use that last 600rpm you'd benefit more from a little extra cup on the prop.  That doesn't help much at all at low speeds as I understand it. But it helps nicely at high speeds.

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The 2277 has a 1.50 cup, so the next logical step would be a larger diameter prop. The md6 is just loafing at surf speeds, plenty of reserve power, so I think I could lower the rpms some. Mind you, my boat is a 22 LSV, a bit lighter than the 23

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Thanks.  I run the same prop on the same boat, but a '16 with the Raptor engine.  Here's my data over a lot of props FWIW.  I collected all this a couple years ago to find out which prop would drop my RPMs the most at my preferred cruise speed as well as give me more top end.   

592767621b049_propellercharts.thumb.png.32e8007e8a08336275e915c705c3e1b8.png

 

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