Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Help me figure out this ballast issue


shawndoggy

Recommended Posts

2016 Axis T22 with PNP.  I am having trouble getting my underseat PNP fly high w706 bow triangle bag to drain.  The bag will fill no problem, but sometimes seems to "lock up" when draining.  A combination of jumping on the bag, filling a little, cursing, trying to run bow high for a while while filling then draining, and more cursing eventually seems to get the bag draining.  But it never "just drains." 

How can I improve my draining functionality on my bag?

Link to comment

I *feel* like it's some kind of an air lock issue where the aerator is getting air in the line at the pump and won't prime.  Once it primes, it will usually mostly drain.

Link to comment

Is the drain pump attached to bag or further downstream? 

Is the bag burping when filling?

I would also agree with @Ronnie and check to see if something is blocking at times as well (causing your airlock issue).

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

Is the drain pump attached to bag or further downstream? 

Is the bag burping when filling?

I would also agree with @Ronnie and check to see if something is blocking at times as well (causing your airlock issue).

Pump is attached downstream (hose from bag to pump)

bag is vented, so not really burping?

Where to look for a blockage?  At the pump?

Link to comment

Pump is attached downstream (hose from bag to pump)

  • Is the pump below the drain hose for the entire length?
  • How far from bag is the pump

bag is vented, so not really burping?

  • potatoe potato

Where to look for a blockage?  At the pump?

  • I would start at bag then work back to pump
Link to comment

The bag is new, so no blcokage there (meaning I switched bags recently)

Not sure on elevation of pump.  It's "how it came from the factory".  The pump is probably 2.5-3' from the bag?  (pump is under helm, drain port is essentially at the walkway center.

Link to comment
ahopkins22LSV

The pump is good? On a demo boat for an event a few years ago, one of the rear tanks/ bags would not drain. It actually would if you let the boat sit over night but something with the pump was bad. They say they replaced the pump and all was good after that. 

Ive also had debris get into a pump, granted it was a fill pump, that it would still work but man it would fill slow. I thought it was going to be a ton of weeds but it really wasn’t so I’d definitely pull the pump part. 

Link to comment
ahopkins22LSV
29 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

ugh.  alright alright.  I guess I need to pull the kick panel and the sub and see what there is to see down there.

Or just stick with the jumping and cursing method? :Tease3:

Video next time though please ;) 

Link to comment

update.  I took everything apart last night.  

Drain pump for bow bag is in the center bilge.  So there is a hose from the bag to down there to the pump and then a hose from the pump out the side of the boat. under/next to the helm.

Step 1: pulled all of the hoses from the pump, nothing obviously obstructed.  

Step 2: pulled cartridge and it seems to be working just fine.  reassembled everything and still no joy.  Pump runs, and you can hear it start to pull water, but nothing comes out the side. 

Step 3: pulled outlet side hose and turned on the pump.  This worked like a champ, pumping all of the residual water from the bag into the bilge.

Step 4: hooked up my tube pump and blew out the pump outlet hose.  Airflow seemed to be pretty good.

 

Of course this is all done with the boat on the trailer in my driveway so no real way to test what's going on.  Seems like I've narrowed it down to two potential culprits: (1) pump works but is weak and can't push the water uphill that far, or (2) the head pressure to get the water from the bilge location up and out of the boat is too great for the pump under the best circumstances.  Anything I'm missing here?

Link to comment

So on the water this weekend I can intermittently get the bag to drain. Seems to drain best if so overfilled that I am pushing water out of the vent. When it actually pushes water out the side of the boat, it does so with authority, so don’t think that there is any blockage in the vent line.

A little frustrated at this point. I like that it works  sometimes, but I wish it would work all the time. 

Link to comment

I didn't see this specifically listed but any kinks on either of the drain hoses?  I had a 2015 A22 and my rear starboard PnP bag would only drain half of the time correctly.  I had even removed excess hose and made 90 degree fittings to alleviate the issue but there was a slight kink that I didn't find until I removed the floor cover.  The bags tend to slide around a little and it kinked ever so slightly coming through the HDPE floor.  Once I changed that out, I never had the issue again.  It wasn't even kinked completely but probably 25% blockage but I remember a few times when we let the kids swim till dark and left the tanks full to keep the platform in the water and it is frustrating when you're just trying to get back to the ramp and a bag won't drain.

Link to comment

@shawndoggy I just replaced a water pump for the head on my houseboat because of similar circumstances: sometimes it worked great, other times not at all, most of the time it was just weak and noisy. I pulled the pump and "hotwired" it to a battery  and used a bucket of water to test, it worked just fine so I reinstalled it and it had issues again. If you've ever had to service a marine head you know you don't want to take it apart more times than you have to. Toilets in houses are one thing, marine heads are another mess entirely. What I was able to determine was that the pump was functional, but couldn't generate the required draw/prime when installed. In this case it was pumping ~3.5 ft vertical across a 10 ft run of hose with a check valve midway through the system (pre-pump). I swapped it for a replacement pump and everything is now working correctly, quieter, and more efficient (less power).

Granted these two are entirely different situations, but my point is that a pump can sound like it's working just fine but be a bad pump. If it's an aerator cartridge pump the cartridge could be good and there could be a defect in the case that is causing issues too. Also, any air leak in the system will cause major problems. Try drinking with a straw with a pinhole in it. The pinhole may be small, but it takes significantly more effort to pull the beverage.

You could try swapping the entire pump with another in your boat, or get another pump (from your dealer or Amazon) to see if that fixes the issue. If the pump isn't the issue, then you have a spare and can continue to investigate the rest of the system. If the pump fixes the issue, then you're done. If it's a Piranha aerator pump I have a spare at BB if you're going to be there anytime soon.

There are a couple of options: try swapping the fill and drain pump. Everything for the wiring harness should be exactly the same. I would suggest swapping both the cartridge and the body (assuming aerators) or the entire pump assembly. You could also move to a reversible pump, that's what I use for the bow bag in my boat.

Link to comment
51 minutes ago, mikeo said:

@shawndoggy I just replaced a water pump for the head on my houseboat because of similar circumstances: sometimes it worked great, other times not at all, most of the time it was just weak and noisy. I pulled the pump and "hotwired" it to a battery  and used a bucket of water to test, it worked just fine so I reinstalled it and it had issues again. If you've ever had to service a marine head you know you don't want to take it apart more times than you have to. Toilets in houses are one thing, marine heads are another mess entirely. What I was able to determine was that the pump was functional, but couldn't generate the required draw/prime when installed. In this case it was pumping ~3.5 ft vertical across a 10 ft run of hose with a check valve midway through the system (pre-pump). I swapped it for a replacement pump and everything is now working correctly, quieter, and more efficient (less power).

Granted these two are entirely different situations, but my point is that a pump can sound like it's working just fine but be a bad pump. If it's an aerator cartridge pump the cartridge could be good and there could be a defect in the case that is causing issues too. Also, any air leak in the system will cause major problems. Try drinking with a straw with a pinhole in it. The pinhole may be small, but it takes significantly more effort to pull the beverage.

You could try swapping the entire pump with another in your boat, or get another pump (from your dealer or Amazon) to see if that fixes the issue. If the pump isn't the issue, then you have a spare and can continue to investigate the rest of the system. If the pump fixes the issue, then you're done. If it's a Piranha aerator pump I have a spare at BB if you're going to be there anytime soon.

There are a couple of options: try swapping the fill and drain pump. Everything for the wiring harness should be exactly the same. I would suggest swapping both the cartridge and the body (assuming aerators) or the entire pump assembly. You could also move to a reversible pump, that's what I use for the bow bag in my boat.

Yep all of this.  I've actually got the replacement pump in my wakemakers cart but then hate to spend less than $100 and pay for shipping.  I also have a reversible already plumbed in this exact location (for seat top ballast) that I could just repurpose to pump the underseat bag given that I don't use the seat top bag any more.  But it would irk me that factory setup doesn't work.

Link to comment
On 7/29/2019 at 5:45 PM, mikeo said:

I'm not sure if mine is an 1100 or an 800, but I know I have a spare. Let me check.

Pump cartridge should be the same either way.  Only difference is in the housing of the 1100 and the 800. 1100 has 1 1/8" output, 800 has 3/4" output .

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

So not to jinx it because I haven't actually done anything to "repair" this issue, but things seem to have resolved themselves.  The only thing I can think of is that I have now "overfilled" the front bag to the point that water came out the vent.  Since then, it seems to be draining pretty well.  I still have a couple of inches of water in the back of the bag, but I think that that's because of where the drain port is situated on the bag ("rear" side of triangle, but halfway between top and bottom).  Once the water gets lower than the drain port the drain pump must be losing prime.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...