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eubanks

M5 Disappointment

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eubanks

What are other’s opinions on this engine thus far?  For a $2k upgrade, I guess I was expecting more from this motor with my 23. My biggest complaint is having major issues planning even with the 2249 and running at no elevation. I’ve got the 550’s in the back, and even with 300 lbs of lead in the bow and a couple of adults onboard, I cannot get her to plane for wakeboarding with full ballast and wedge. I thought this would be the least of my concerns.  The engine is also insanely loud but I guess that’s too be expected when it’s having to run at 4K+ RPM’s  

 

Also, if the driver uses too much throttle on the hole shot, then it’s like the throttle arm runs out of room and you can’t reach your set speed. Does anybody else have this issue? The only other option seems to be to accelerate VERY slowly to leave throttle room to make it to your speed setting. But even then, it will reach the set speed and take over but then continue to beep at you to give it more throttle even though you hit that set speed. It’s driving us crazy.

Thoughts on both fronts?

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Tjards

Have you tried the 2773? The short frame of the 22 and all that weight in the back is a lot to get up on plane. Try switching out props and see if that helps.

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Sparky450
1 hour ago, eubanks said:

What are other’s opinions on this engine thus far?  For a $2k upgrade, I guess I was expecting more from this motor with my 23. My biggest complaint is having major issues planning even with the 2249 and running at no elevation. I’ve got the 550’s in the back, and even with 300 lbs of lead in the bow and a couple of adults onboard, I cannot get her to plane for wakeboarding with full ballast and wedge. I thought this would be the least of my concerns.  The engine is also insanely loud but I guess that’s too be expected when it’s having to run at 4K+ RPM’s  

 

Also, if the driver uses too much throttle on the hole shot, then it’s like the throttle arm runs out of room and you can’t reach your set speed. Does anybody else have this issue? The only other option seems to be to accelerate VERY slowly to leave throttle room to make it to your speed setting. But even then, it will reach the set speed and take over but then continue to beep at you to give it more throttle even though you hit that set speed. It’s driving us crazy.

Thoughts on both fronts?

I pulled wakeboarders VERY heavy for the first time this weekend. I found that as the wedge deploys back out and the speed will catch up and act normal. Also I found not to go full throttle.  As the speed comes up let up and it would catch up. We don’t wakeboard much. And very seldom that heavy. Hope that makes since. 

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Sparky450
1 hour ago, eubanks said:

The engine is also insanely loud but I guess that’s too be expected when it’s having to run at 4K+ RPM’s  

I love the M6. I waited for Malibu to come back to a GM block. And if you think the M5/M6 is loud. Don’t ever ride in a boat with the Raptor engine without ear plugs. My friends send videos behind those boats and I know immediately that it is a Raptor engine. 

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bbattiste247

If it won't reach your desired speed, try putting more weight in the bow. When the prop is vertical and facing straight in water, it makes a lot difference. Just a small suggestion. My 2017 23 lsv was struggling one day, and two guys decided to go sit in the bow. Once the bow lowered, the boat caught up to speed. 

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ahopkinsVTX

Are you using lift mod?

I think you are over propped. I’d asked your dealer if you can try the “speed prop” option. I forget the number but I’m pretty sure @Ronnie and at @NWBU run it with good success. 

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boardjnky4

550s with lift mode and that prop should work pretty well. You could try a 2773 but your RPMs will run higher.

I have a PCM 6.0 in my A22 and I can plane off with 750s full.

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wdr

With the M5 (86 hours now), the 570 pnps 3/4 full and the 2773 I don't have a problem getting to or holding surf speeds. I normally see 3850-3900 rpms at @ 11.2 mph with the wedge at 2 clicks from lift. If I am using the 850 in the walk through and the wedge at 3 clicks from vert I will see @ 4050 rpm with the same load. I have yet  to pull a wake boarder and imagine I would be seeing about 4100 rpm with a full MLS @ 20 mph. I haven't messed with the lift mode yet for surfing because I haven't had a need to. With the 2773 cruising empty I see 3700 to 3800 rpm from the paddle wheel at 20 mph, river current dependent . I was thinking about putting on a 2249 as my main prop to pick up some cruising speed but I am going to have to demo one from the dealer before I commit. There is a big drop in noise when you drop 500 rpm, but there is no exhaust noise to cover up any other noises. I don't think I will be able to achieve a happy balance between cruising speed and surfing speed rpms with this boat and motor by just switching props like I did on my ‘10. It is just too much boat to get there. If someone has found that golden prop I am all ears. I think a different trans ratio would help to quiet things down, but it would probably push the torque curve to a less desirable location. BICBW

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NWBU
48 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Are you using lift mod?

I think you are over propped. I’d asked your dealer if you can try the “speed prop” option. I forget the number but I’m pretty sure @Ronnie and at @NWBU run it with good success. 

We both run the 2277, which is the "speed prop" option on the '19 23. But we also both have the PCM 6.0 engine.

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rsutton1223
Posted (edited)

No issues here. Make sure you are using lift mode when fully loaded wakeboarding. It is also much quieter than previous motors. I have said this before but the pitch is different (thanks to zero exhaust noise and direct injection) so it came seem louder when it really isn't. The decibel level is a lot lower. It is much easier to have conversations in the boat while running than previous motors. We are running the 2773. It sounds like you might have more of a setup issue.

Edited by rsutton1223

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ahopkinsVTX
24 minutes ago, NWBU said:

We both run the 2277, which is the "speed prop" option on the '19 23. But we also both have the PCM 6.0 engine.

True, but he isn’t at elevation so I’d guess he’d have similar results. Definitely worth the question to his dealer. 

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Ronnie

Not having been on the boat, I suspect your overweighted in the rear for wake boarding for your setup. Like NWBU said above, I'm running a similar but different motor and prop but we don't pull many wakeboards.

You could grab @Murphy8166 or @G Spot and get them on the boat to help solve the issue. Or you (and them too) could come out here and we could play with it.

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G Spot
5 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Not having been on the boat, I suspect your overweighted in the rear for wake boarding for your setup. Like NWBU said above, I'm running a similar but different motor and prop but we don't pull many wakeboards.

You could grab @Murphy8166 or @G Spot and get them on the boat to help solve the issue. Or you (and them too) could come out here and we could play with it.

GREAT IDEA @Ronnie!!

Jarret?? :footing:

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pauley71

No issues w/ M5di getting on plane w/ 580 PNPs.  I suspect the lift mode is disabled in settings or you are blowing by the zero off somehow.  The M5 has plenty for that configuration.  And it's not even close to loud compared to Ford (which I also had).   

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UWSkier

In GM trucks, the 5.3 has never been known as a torque monster.  It's not a bad engine, but it's got to be working like crazy in a 23' boat.

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Murphy8166

@eubanks

You must be getting really washed up if you need wedge, tanks and bags to get over the wake.  Don’t you ride at 65’ 😂 I’m kidding.

For me it’s either - tanks full, bags full and no wedge or it’s tanks full to the point the just start to put water in bags and use wedge.  All 3 at once is way to much weight in the rear of the boat.

Take a day off work and let’s go experiment when we have a full day and the lake to ourselves. 

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ahopkinsVTX
47 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

In GM trucks, the 5.3 has never been known as a torque monster.  It's not a bad engine, but it's got to be working like crazy in a 23' boat.

Go drive a 2019. The throttle mapping was very conservative in the 2014-2018. To not go too far off topic. 

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1107

Before I took delivery of my 2019 M5, the dealer’s test ride revealed the transmission was slipping.  Malibu sent a new one.   

717AF01C-A6BB-44A8-8E4B-DB489A812980.jpeg

BCC0291A-20C9-4B8E-9EA9-77BDD732203B.jpeg

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wdr
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, 1107 said:

Before I took delivery of my 2019 M5, the dealer’s test ride revealed the transmission was slipping.  Malibu sent a new one.   

717AF01C-A6BB-44A8-8E4B-DB489A812980.jpeg

BCC0291A-20C9-4B8E-9EA9-77BDD732203B.jpeg

How did they figure that out?  Symptoms or seat of the pants comparison?

Edited by wdr

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eubanks
2 hours ago, Murphy8166 said:

@eubanks

You must be getting really washed up if you need wedge, tanks and bags to get over the wake.  Don’t you ride at 65’ 😂 I’m kidding.

For me it’s either - tanks full, bags full and no wedge or it’s tanks full to the point the just start to put water in bags and use wedge.  All 3 at once is way to much weight in the rear of the boat.

Take a day off work and let’s go experiment when we have a full day and the lake to ourselves. 

Perhaps you boys were tubing in the early 2000's while the real men were trying to put the platform 2' deep and getting upside down 75 feet back.  :rockon::lol:

 

I am old school and want a huge wakeboard wake.  I should be able to run stock ballast w/ PNP, wedge, and 300 lbs. of lead in the bow and still get on plane.  It definitely helps dumping weight in the back but I don't think I should have to with these new boats, no?  Last weekend I was running this setup plus two adults in the bow.  The nose would almost dip coming off plane so I know we had all the bow weight the boat could handle.  So perhaps I will keep playing but maybe the answer is 50% full in the back and then full everywhere else and hopefully the wake is negligibly smaller.  I run a steeper wake for wakeboarding so typically 1-2 clicks from vert.  I believe the lift mode is working because you can feel the wedge deploying as you're getting up to speed.

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Murphy8166
11 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Perhaps you boys were tubing in the early 2000's while the real men were trying to put the platform 2' deep and getting upside down 75 feet back.  :rockon::lol:

 

I am old school and want a huge wakeboard wake.  I should be able to run stock ballast w/ PNP, wedge, and 300 lbs. of lead in the bow and still get on plane.  It definitely helps dumping weight in the back but I don't think I should have to with these new boats, no?  Last weekend I was running this setup plus two adults in the bow.  The nose would almost dip coming off plane so I know we had all the bow weight the boat could handle.  So perhaps I will keep playing but maybe the answer is 50% full in the back and then full everywhere else and hopefully the wake is negligibly smaller.  I run a steeper wake for wakeboarding so typically 1-2 clicks from vert.  I believe the lift mode is working because you can feel the wedge deploying as you're getting up to speed.

There was a reason Harrelson would come ride with us on the Brazos back in y2k 😉...

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eubanks
4 minutes ago, Murphy8166 said:

There was a reason Harrelson would come ride with us on the Brazos back in y2k 😉...

Ha, Justin and I were in Aggieland at the same time.  Sick rider.  I need to get together with you guys and get the wake dialed in.

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Murphy8166
3 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Ha, Justin and I were in Aggieland at the same time.  Sick rider.  I need to get together with you guys and get the wake dialed in.

@JustinHarrelson he runs a 2019 23 LSV - I'd be interested to know what he is doing with the base motor....

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IXFE
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eubanks said:

I am old school and want a huge wakeboard wake.  I should be able to run stock ballast w/ PNP, wedge, and 300 lbs. of lead in the bow and still get on plane.  It definitely helps dumping weight in the back but I don't think I should have to with these new boats, no?  

I sort of disagree...

You may have paid $2k to upgrade, but you upgraded to LESS displacement.  That’s all good if you want the latest technology, but if your goal is to run heavy I’d have given some serious thought to the M6. 

Consider this... you bought the motor that couldn’t get it done as the base motor in the G23 (with a 17” prop to boot), a boat that pound for pound isn’t really much heavier than you’re running your boat. 

I’m not saying the M5 isn’t a great engine... it’s just maybe not the one I’d gravitate to if I was was going to wakeboard heavy. 

Question... did you demo it set up like that?

471DC5C9-4386-4B50-9D2B-8D80B7226A7C.gif

Edited by IXFE

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Chappy
Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2019 at 9:25 PM, eubanks said:

Also, if the driver uses too much throttle on the hole shot, then it’s like the throttle arm runs out of room and you can’t reach your set speed. Does anybody else have this issue? The only other option seems to be to accelerate VERY slowly to leave throttle room to make it to your speed setting. But even then, it will reach the set speed and take over but then continue to beep at you to give it more throttle even though you hit that set speed.

I have this same issue with my 24 MXZ, I have the Monsoon 450, the High Torque prop (not sure what # it is) and 550 PNP but it doesn't sound quite as bad unless I have a boat full of ppl.  As long as I roll into the throttle slowly is doesn't seem to be a problem but if I drop the hammer I can run out of throttle and not get up to speed. 

Quick stupid question, can you set up the wedge to go back and forth from lift to desired wedge position or do you have to do it manually each time you pick up a rider? 

Edited by Chappy

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