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Temps above my normal 162


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May or may not be related , getting wife up surfing felt what I thought was driveline vibration , I let off , found neutral snd did a reverse , no issues driveline as we surfed after this quite a bit

in idle back I noticed 180 temp , I’m 162 always 160-162 I think in all operations,  boat would run fine but temps elevate at idle, lower with running at higher rpm , back up idle , saw 200 once, ran it came off of that really quick,  never went anywhere near that high again mainly 173-186.  Visual inspection on water had only residual water from daily activities under engine and just enough to see floor wet, none standing  and very little with no leaks anywhere ,

 I filmed my shaft the other day it  has no drips ever so no way to be confused if leaking or not in engine area 

today inspected sea strainer from bottom , nothing visual , pulled impeller cap (replace seasonally after 200 hours last year 55 hours ago) no visual detonation, was going to film bumping starter and see it spin but I will.  Pump seems rock solid on its connection to motor

decided to see if blockage in intake ,pulled intake hose from Johnson pump, obviously water came out.  Tried forcing water with nozzle into hose backwards to see if water would exit sea strainer , non did.  

Should I expect water to exit the sea strainer past the open ball valve  and out the strainer on to ground if I have enough force pressure from hose nozzle ??? Or is there a flap valve at strainer to keep pump prime?

Going to start on transom flush and see if it maintains 160-162, maybe indication of partial block on intake  if temps don’t rise???

This is my starting point before I pull impeller and/or inspect /replace thermostat to determine if I have a partial blockage because since I didn’t have driveline damage I thought vibration could have been debris suck up???  impeller was wet and water was exiting when I pulled cap 5E426FBA-3C51-40BA-AE8D-495597363E19.thumb.jpeg.4848634c01e9006d292a4f9b8fda2ed1.jpeg

Edited by granddaddy55
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formulaben
34 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

decided to see if blockage in intake ,pulled intake hose from Johnson pump, obviously water came out.  Tried forcing water with nozzle into hose backwards to see if water would exit sea strainer , non did.  

Should I expect water to exit the sea strainer past the open ball valve  and out the strainer on to ground if I have enough force pressure from hose nozzle ??? Or is there a flap valve at strainer to keep pump prime? 

There is a lot of volume going back through the hose, strainer, and v-drive so it might take a while but yeah I would think for sure you'd get water coming back out the raw water intake.  Since you mentioned vibration I would definitely swap that impeller just because I've read too many stories where it looks great but it is spinning on its own shaft.

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You mentioned a transom flush.  A transom flush attachment almost assuredly means that you have a check valve between the sea water inlet and the flush attachment.  This allows you to hook up your hose to the transom and flush the engine without having to diddle with a sea water valve (which you would forget to put back, and overheat due to lack of sea water the next time you went out).

Conversely, you have to keep a good cap on the flush inlet because it will suck air into your raw water supply, causing you to overheat due to lack of sea water.  Did you leave the flush cap off?

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10 minutes ago, justgary said:

You mentioned a transom flush.  A transom flush attachment almost assuredly means that you have a check valve between the sea water inlet and the flush attachment.  This allows you to hook up your hose to the transom and flush the engine without having to diddle with a sea water valve (which you would forget to put back, and overheat due to lack of sea water the next time you went out).

Conversely, you have to keep a good cap on the flush inlet because it will suck air into your raw water supply, causing you to overheat due to lack of sea water.  Did you leave the flush cap off?

No,but thanks , 

@formulaben

“There is a lot of volume going back through the hose, strainer, and v-drive so it might take a while but yeah I would think for sure you'd get water coming back out the raw water intake.  Since you mentioned vibration I would definitely swap that impeller just because I've read too many stories where it looks great but it is spinning on its own shaft.”

tried but it never went through , mostly it was back splashing and none came out, guess I could try again but it just filled up the bilge , must have back flap for keeping pump prime or it’s blocked 

Gonna replace impeller though I filmed it and it was fine , see Malibu and Axis owner group today post for vid on impeller though I may have to re shoot 

 

Do you use a flat head screw driver and pry the thermostat cover from the base that attaches to manifold ?  Do you have to disconnect the top two or all four hoses to accomplish it??.  

 

Guessing I need a gasket seal compound to redo

 

I ran my ‘14 Indmar 330 on transom flush trying to hunt down slight overheat issue after inspecting impeller and videoing that it spins .

 

My boat usually climbs to 163 on idle and most operating conditions  and then thermostat opens and immediately drops to 159-160 and closes and rises again 

 

This time after raising core temp using fast idle ( it would fall during it) but rise each time higher than before as soon as I let off ,   

 

I’m suspecting thermostat now, took out the three bolts and the two pieces are glued together with gasket sealer I guess

A86D1532-7836-4D84-A5D9-16BA00BE3285.jpeg

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Got it, just pried between two pieces with box wrench , pried apart immediately 

 

I’m suspecting thermostat now

Edited by granddaddy55
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Any continued input welcome , my gauge tells me could be thermostat snd that’s an easy Change, started to unhook vdrive feeder line fir more blockage inspection snd that was going to be hard , lines on Johnson pump pop right off this was different and had lots of retaining tension from perfect fit length of hose 

may disconnect Johnson end of vdrive line , maybe that’s what will make it easier ,  do they  disconnect both ends to winterize?   

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Since the engine temp increased at idle, I would suspect a water flow issue. My suspicion is the engine water pump (the circulating pump, not the raw water pump). At higher rpms, the raw water pump will force water through the engine, but it needs the circulating pump to maintain cooling at idle. I've seen pics of several water pump impellers that have split and come loose from the shaft. If the thermostat doesn't fix it, I'd look there next.

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2 hours ago, jmack said:

Since the engine temp increased at idle, I would suspect a water flow issue. My suspicion is the engine water pump (the circulating pump, not the raw water pump). At higher rpms, the raw water pump will force water through the engine, but it needs the circulating pump to maintain cooling at idle. I've seen pics of several water pump impellers that have split and come loose from the shaft. If the thermostat doesn't fix it, I'd look there next.

Yea, I don’t think I have a blockage but you have to pull feed out line off Johnson pump to have slack to pull the port vdrive  cool water hose off, its tight,  if thermostat doesn’t fix it , I’ll start there snd maybe do it before I go to water but impeller housing had no debris or detonated ribs so I don’t think I have a blockage 

so your analysis maybe spot on 

710 hours in 4 years and 9 months of operation 

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I cleaned all four sides of thermostat housing assembly and then just practiced putting it back with no gasket or permetex to worry about snd that was a pain in the you know what to get it lined up snd hoses on,  top two I know won’t be a problem , seems like I’ll need the right hand lower angled hose will probably go on pre assembled housing slightly loose with the 3 hole gasket installed with small bolt?

I guess then install two hole gasket to bottom of housing permatexed at top with more permetex on manifold or on manifold side of gasket or no permetex on manifold side ?? 

When scraping pieces the bottom of two hole gasket was mostly solid green and no permatex but I think the top side of that gasket to bottom of housing was permatexed  

every other surface including the resting ledge for thermostat snd on top of rim of thermostat that lies on ledge was all coated, small amount around outside of gasket that squished out of housing in some spots and had factory Indmar paint on it 

 

first  try to mount housing with angled hose installed to that right pipe snd snuggle other bottom port into the left hose that would be already on its pipe but not on housing ??

then center outer larger bolts already in housing in manifold ( lined up slightly tilted initially due to tension from top hoses now on housing) holes keeping all hoses attached and tighten some after I push forward snd line up bolt to holes and push housing down the bolts to mate underneath gasket mate to manifold 

seems intimidating 

don’t think you can mount housing and then install all those stiff short hoses

what am I over thinking here , Sorry

bakes is overnighting the 160 degree thermostat and two and 3 bolt gaskets , permatex thread snd gasket sealer

 

hope it’s not motor water pump cause I have visitors coming 11 th,  only leaves 8,9,10 to get in and see Indmar mechanic with overnighting parts at best 

 

Edited by granddaddy55
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Bakes overnighted parts , Bench assembled it with thermostat snd all gaskets and bolts in place with the permatex and put it on with one hose on it, bottom right hose

Just hope that’s it, I have to wait 24 hours to water test with the permatex set up time 

B7822FDD-1784-4F60-97A9-DE31B83950C9.jpeg

Edited by granddaddy55
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Permatex thread sealer Recommended by bakes for threads of bolts on page of part to order and it was obvious that factory used some gasket sealer/maker on each side of inner 3 bolt gasket and ledge for thermostat and heavy squishing out between gasket and thermostat , they had it on thermostat housing side of two hole gasket , I also did some on manifold side they didn’t 

It was obvious factory used some because the Indmar paint was on the squished out residue and it scrapped off of metal surfaces and the big excess ring of it on ring of thermostat up against gasket and under the thermostat on its ledge I had to scrape  

And Andrew at Bakes recommended it snd I really trust him, he also told me about bench assembling the two part housing and bolts and gaskets which I am to stupid to envision myself with my limited mechanical skills 

Edited by granddaddy55
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On 7/2/2019 at 9:14 AM, jmack said:

Since the engine temp increased at idle, I would suspect a water flow issue. My suspicion is the engine water pump (the circulating pump, not the raw water pump). At higher rpms, the raw water pump will force water through the engine, but it needs the circulating pump to maintain cooling at idle. I've seen pics of several water pump impellers that have split and come loose from the shaft. If the thermostat doesn't fix it, I'd look there next.

I’m very much like you to expect worse but I just didn’t expect water pump to go out because that’s like s 50000 mile item or longer on most cars , isn’t that like more than 10000 hours in a boat ?

Edited by granddaddy55
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1.  Assume an average 30 MPH in that car.  Now 50,000 Miles / 30 MPH = 1,667 hours.  So not as many as you would think.

2.  Your car has coolant in it with lubricants for things like water pumps.  That's one thing I really like about closed cooling.

Edited by justgary
Fat fingered the numbers.
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I would expect a water pump in a car to last a lot more than 50K miles.  My kid did one in his Subaru at 250K kms (~135K miles).  But I think you are right - closed cooling is better for longevity, esp. since water pressure/quality  varies so much.

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On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 9:55 AM, granddaddy55 said:

I’m very much like you to expect worse but I just didn’t expect water pump to go out because that’s like s 50000 mile item or longer on most cars , isn’t that like more than 10000 hours in a boat ?

Glad the thermostat fixed it for you and it wasn't something worse!

I had to replace the water pump in mine around 750 hours due to the bearing, and I've seen others where the impeller has split. I don't know that it's a common issue, but I know that it's happened. Great that it wasn't your issue though.

As far as comparing car and boat engines, I've always used the oil change interval recommendations: 50 hours = 5000 miles, so a boat with 1000 hours = car with 100,000 miles. I'm not saying that's definitively correct, but it makes sense to me.

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