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Lptexastornado1

2006 23 LSV Hard Start Monsoon 340

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Lptexastornado1

Calling all Malibu Engine experts (and those that know more than me so that all of yall :biggrin:) ,

 

About a month go purchased a 2006 23 LSV Wakesetter with 550 hrs.  on it and it has the Monsoon 340 engine in it.  The first few times out I noticed that when you turned the key over it cranked but not full force so I put a new starter on it (had the old one tested at Advanced auto parts and they confirmed it was bad) 

After that it turned over and cranked a lot stronger but would still crank for 5-10 secs before it fires up and runs.  I started thinking maybe it is gas related.  So Last week I changed out the inline fuel filter and when I started it in in the driveway it took 5-10 secs to fire up the first time after replacing the inline fuel filter but eventually fired up.  I attributed this to no pre-priming the fuel filter.  I turned it off and on another 5-6 times in the driveway including letting it sit for a couple hours then firing it up again and all worked great.  Cranked 1-2 times then fired up.

Then on the lake this past weekend It went back to cranking for roughly 10 seconds and then starting or cranking and not starting.  When it wouldn't start i would pull the silver button that disengages the transmission and advance the throttle forward when I turned the key and the boat starts up every time when i "give it gas"  I started it roughly 8 times and of those 8 times 6-7 of them i had to "give it Gas" to get it going.

Once it starts it seems to be running tip top.  I can hit roughly 5200rpm and 44mph.  i can load all stock ballast and 900# piggy back with wedge down and get on plain (slowly but i get there :) 1235 pull prop should be in this week and help with that).  I think it idles fine.  Might be running slightly rich at idle if the wind is coming from the back of the boat you can either smell the fumes or a faint gas smell.

When I originally got the boat home I noticed that it was the original Cap and wires so I replaced the plugs, wires cap and rotar from SKIDM tune up kit.  ( i have since found out that the HVC distributor cap they sent might or might not be part of a recall from the manufacture but the symptoms of the bad caps are misses and back fires and I haven't experienced that).

 

Any thoughts on what could be causing the hard start? 

- I was leaning towards the fuel pump due to it starting when I "give it gas" I put quotes around that as I was just told that I'm not actual giving it gas but rather giving it more air when I advance the throttle when starting the boat.   I need to go listen and see if the pump is priming when I turn the key on.  I will do that this Afternoon. Is there a low and High fuel pump or just a single high pump?

- I was also told it might be my IAC valve but I don't have problems idling. idles like a champ once started.  Is the IAC by the Air filter just bottom left of the distributor cap?

- Any chance y'all think it could be the distributor cap.  I feel like if it was spark issue it would run poorly when started and not start when i advance the throttle?

 

My old Tige had a Mercrusier engine in it and i was able to find some good engnine diagrams where i could point out all the parts on the engine but i have struggled finding that for this Indmar Monsoon.

 

Thanks in advance for the help!  I appreciate it.  I love the boat already just need it to start reliably to gain some more confidence in it  :crazy:

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JasonK

I bought an 06 last year and only got 30 hours on the cap and rotor before it quit and wouldn't start. New cap and rotor last summer, and so far so good.

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formulaben

Try keying up a couple times before you start and see if that change anything.

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Lptexastornado1

@Formulaben I should have taken better notes.  I believe i tried that but now I'm not a 100% sure if I did or not so I will give it a try.

 

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srab
9 hours ago, Lptexastornado1 said:

 Is there a low and High fuel pump or just a single high pump?

 

If your boat is stock, it has only the single high pressure Pierburg fuel pump.

I recently added a second, low pressure, fuel pump to solve a recurrent vapor lock issue.

You should hear the pump whine briefly on key up. 

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Lptexastornado1

I was able to confirm the pump primes with the key on. I lifted the engine hatch and heard the pump prime when I turned the key.

 

Unfortunately i Didn’t get a chance to do 3-5 key on and start the boat test tonight but should be able to get to it tomorrow afternoon. 

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Lptexastornado1

Started the engine this afternoon on a fake a lake (outside temp was 88 degrees) and this is what happens. 

- first start up it started up after cranking for a couple seconds and idled fine. 

- turned it off  then started it again this time took a little longer cranking time to get it to start. Let it idle till the engine warmed up engine hatch open. 

- turned it off then started it again but this time I had to pull the silver button and give it throttle to start but it started. Repeated this 2 more times and it started. 

- then I keyed it on and off 5 times to “prime” it better ( I can hear the fuel pump priming on key up) but after keying it on and off 5 times it will not start. It cranks and cranks over and over but won’t fire. I pull the silver button and advance the throttle and now this won’t start the engine. 

 

- I let it sit for 1.5 hrs and engine has cooled down and it starts after a couple cranks it sounds as if the engine was trying to start and gasping for fuel or air? Not sure which just seemed like it was starving for something. 

- turned it off and then basically back to the warmer the engine gets then I have to give it throttle to start but it starts. 

- I tried the key on 3-4 times to verify and once again after doing that it would not start even when I advance the throttle. 

 

This makes me think it isn’t the fuel pump but rather the IAC?  But then again I’m no mechanic and I still get confused on all this jazz.   

 

Any  thoughts? Maybe something other than IAC and fuel pump? Or change those and see?

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Lptexastornado1

Since I am now a Malibu owner I am a paid subscriber :rockon:  now I can post pictures. But for this thread here is a video of the boat cranking but not starting. 

The first set of cranking is no throttle. Then after the pause I pull the silver button and give it throttle and it fires up. 

 

 

And a bad picture of the boat just because. 

421F301D-A85F-4412-8F6B-569E7F6AD017.jpeg

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Lptexastornado1

Man I was hoping there would be more suggestions on this that might led me in the right direction.  

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boardjnky4

I definitely don't think it would be a bad idea to investigate the IAC. At the very least, clean it.

Coolant Temp Sensor and Crank Position Sensor also affect starting the engine. With there being a difference with starting it cold vs warm, that would sort-of have me considering the Coolant Temp Sensor.

The ignition coil and Ignition Control Module could also be something to replace/look at. If the coil is weak, you could get a weak spark.

Basically, could be anything, ha.

Edited by boardjnky4

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justgary
38 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

I definitely don't think it would be a bad idea to investigate the IAC. At the very least, clean it.

Clean the whole throttle body.  The IAC is not involved in starting, as it only engages after the ECM is convinced that the engine is actually running.  The fact that you have to crack the butterfly for a reliable start tells me that you are not getting the proper air flow with it closed.

A can of spray carb cleaner should do it.  Soak everything you can find inside the TB, let it rest a while, start the engine, and do it again.  It wouldn't hurt to pull the IAC and TPS and clean them directly.

It is also possible that you have an air leak from someone else pulling the IAC, TPS, or whole throttle body in the past.  I think that this is less likely since more air is what gets it to start.

Anyway, the throttle body is an integral part of a properly running engine, so it doesn't make sense to start a bunch of diagnosis before getting it clean so it can do its job.  It is very likely that it has never been cleaned before.

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Lptexastornado1

Sounds good I’ll pull the big black cover and clean the TB and inspect / Clean the IAC.  Thanks for the feed back. 

 

@boardjnky4 that’s what I’m worried about it could be anything and I start throwing parts at it and it’s none of those and I’m wasting money. I’ll clean it all and then see if that fixes anything if not might have to go to the mechanic for diagnosing. 

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boardjnky4
8 minutes ago, Lptexastornado1 said:

Sounds good I’ll pull the big black cover and clean the TB and inspect / Clean the IAC.  Thanks for the feed back. 

 

@boardjnky4 that’s what I’m worried about it could be anything and I start throwing parts at it and it’s none of those and I’m wasting money. I’ll clean it all and then see if that fixes anything if not might have to go to the mechanic for diagnosing. 

The good news is that most of that stuff is relatively inexpensive and easy to replace.

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kylesullens

I'm no help for the mechanical issues, but man that is a pretty boat.  I have the same year/model, but I love the orange and black.  

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formulaben
3 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

If the coil is weak, you could get a weak spark. 

Just a hunch but this sounds similar to other coil failures.  They aren't that expensive, so I'd definitely check for spark.  I know you don't want to throw money at this, but keep in mind these parts are 14 years old if they are original...might be time anyhow.

If you don't know when the "consumable" items were replaced, it may be time to do a full tune up: plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil.  At least then you'll eliminate them as culprits.  There is a long thread here about an issue and the poor guy threw all kinds of time and money at it and in the end it was spark plugs, probably the cheapest thing to replace (and should be replaced on a regular schedule.)  When you replace the plug wires, swap them one at a time...too many have mismatched wires to make their situation even worse.  Also do a check for good grounding at the engine block.

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Lptexastornado1

Ya I replaced plugs, wires, cap and rotar replaced a month ago after I bought the boat.  

 

ya  the orange and black has really grown on me

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formulaben

My guess is it's the coil.

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Lptexastornado1

@formulaben I have a slight understanding of some of the engine parts and where they are but when you say coil where is that coil located?  Anyone know of a pet number I can look up or try to cross reference one at my auto parts store?

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boardjnky4

yeah, don't buy the indmar coil. I replaced the one on my old boat with a regular one from the auto parts store. The MSD is probably not a bad idea.

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Lptexastornado1

Got ya. Perfect thanks, makes sense now where the coil is. 

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Lptexastornado1

well My flat springs came in to fix my throttle problem and It did so I’m real pumped about that. 

 

Before we went out i pulled  the black metal cover that has the TB and air filter on to swap out the IAC. Well there isn’t a IAC on it (see the two pictures)

the air filter looked super dirty so I sprayed TB cleaner from the inside out and tried to scrap out dust and stuff on the outside the blew it all out with the air compressor. It definitely cleaned up some. 

 

Put the boat in the water and it fired up good when it was on the trailer. Ran great but I was the only one on the lake so I was afraid to test it and turn it off and on till I got back on the trailer. 

 

Turned it it off and back on and it fired up quickly. I thought great problem fixed must have been the dirty air filter but then turned it off and on 3 more times and it wanted to start without advancing the throttle but ultimately wouldn’t. As soon as I did give it a little throttle boom fired up strong.  

 

Oh one more thing when I had the top of the engine I did clean the TB it wasn’t that bad at all just a little black build up. Very minimal the butterfly thing was actually clean. 

 

So maybe the coil but I’m not connecting the dots on why the coil going bad it would start up when I advance the throttle. 

 

Definitely fired up quicker (even when giving it throttle) than a  couple days ago in the driveway  so I think it has something with getting air.  Almost makes me wonder if it is just a super dirty/ clogged KN air filter.  Could be the IAC but I don’t know where it is at or the gear thing on the side of the TB in the picture (I thought that was where the IAC would be).  Seems like it just needs some more fresh air when warm?  Or I could be way off with my thinking.

 

E38577F7-5B45-466F-ACBF-4776DF4F7C47.jpeg

0E7A2243-9580-45F5-8AAE-422FBEB538B3.jpeg

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Lptexastornado1

Okay so I put a new coil on it and a new distributor cap and Rotar. I deep clean the k&N Flame Arrestor and it still has trouble firing up when engine is hot. 

I bought a fuel pressure kit but of course the connection is slightly smaller than what come in the kit so Hopefully Tomorrow I can go grab the right connection and test the fuel pressure on key up and boat on. 

 

Thought is that a bad fuel fuel regulator or fuel pump might be suppling the engine a higher pressure and when the engine is hot it is already full and energized with fuel therefore you have to crack the butterfly valve with advancing the throttle to even out the higher pressure of fuel. But when cold it get enough fuel to start as the system might be slightly low on fuel. 

 

I don't know but I am hoping testing the fuel rail psi Tomorrow gives me some high fuel pressure readings and then I can replace the fuel regulator and hopefully be finished. 

Thanks 

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justgary

Try to measure the fuel pressure four different times:

1 - During key on, engine off cycles

2 - Engine cranking but not starting (the problem you describe)

3 - Engine running at idle

4 - Engine running at wide open throttle

Report back with the pressures, which should all be the same (roughly three atmospheres, about 44 PSI).

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Lptexastornado1

Fuel gauge readings 

key up Cold - 50psi but dropped to 48psi slowly 

key up hot - 52psi (sometimes it started on the first key up hot but typically have to advance throttle)

idle 58psi

3,000RPM 58psi (I didn’t see your post justgary till after I did the test my bad wish I would have and I would have gone WOT)

once engine was on it was steady as a rock at 58psi 

So if it is supposed to be 44 seems to be high?

 

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