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2004 Wakesetter VLX quit


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Hey really appreciate all the good tips i have gotten over the years but now i need some help ,  LOVE my 2004 wakesetter vlx a great boat !

Bought it new and have gone through 3 sets of upholstery , the stitching is the weak link took care of that ,,,, had the tranny ring gear blow up , pulled 

the motor and took care of that, have faithfully serviced it every season , I dread the idea of taking it to some one else to fix it , hoping someone on 

hear can give me some ideas , Idling back to pick up a rider in the water the engine just quit..... shut off like some one turned the key.... Obviously i did all

the stuff you would think. Jumped the kill switch . Checked all the fluids , it threw no error code... It cranks like a champ... Battery is brand new . So the problem 

is electrical .. diagnosing it in the blazing sun , i have the lobster burn to prove it.. I am getting no voltage to the fuel pump.... If i jump power to fuel pump it will 

run but getting lotsa chimes... but no display codes...Drove it onto the trailer and now hoping to salvage our vacation but some kind of miracle fix...

PLS  any ideas would be much much much appreciated 

 

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thanks for the response Jwl019 ,  Yes Ignition switch hots up the Ignition coil. but not the fuel pump.... my meter says its good at each terminal , i am guessing the chime pattern indicates the code... where can i find a list of code values? 

 

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ECU will not let the pump run until it sees oil pressure to the oil pressure sensor, so that is where where I would check first (not oil pressure sending unit to dash gauge.)

2r289lk.jpg

Edited by formulaben
added picture
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Make sure the Cannon plug for your ECU is tight.  Fuel pump is the first thing that stops getting voltage when it just starts getting loose (learned from experience).  Quick/easy check and fix.  

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Thanks Formulaben , I will check that first.... so i saw no where in the owners manual about oil pressure a must for fuel pump.... 

Can i bypass this in some way to verify it being the oil sensor?

Will also check the cannon ... thanks all!!

 

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Still a bit confused..... i saw somewhere to just pull the sensor wire off.... and the alarm will stop? How does that work... if the fuel pump will not run with out seeing pressure at the sensor?
 

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41 minutes ago, Towbot2 said:

i saw somewhere to just pull the sensor wire off.... and the alarm will stop? How does that work...

Yes, I believe that us the case; 4psi closes the circuit to allow fuel pump to run on start.  If engine is already running it goes into limp mode.  See bold below:

 

INDMAR (CHEVY) ENGINE START UP SEQUENCE


Fuel Rail Pressurization:

When you first turn the key to the "on" position (aka “key up”), the fuel pump will run for 2 seconds pressurizing the fuel rails. There is a Schrader valve on the fuel rail near and if you measure the pressure there after the pump runs, you should see between 40-42 pounds of pressure. The reading will go to 38-40 pounds nominal once the engine is running. Test by attaching a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail at the shrader valve, on TPI and LT1 engines its located on the pass side fuel rail.

Initial Crank Action:

If you then rotate the key to the start position the engine will rotate.  Once the oil pressure has reached 4 PSI, the oil pressure switch will close allowing the fuel pump to run.  The crank position sensor will send a string of pulses to the ECM in response to the engine being rotated by the starter. These pulses continue as long as the engine turns (both starting and running) and if they are not present, the engine will not run.

ECM Reaction:

If the ECM sees oil pressure greater than 4 PSI and the reference pulses from the distributor, it will energize the injector drivers which will begin pulsing the injectors on for 4 ms (milliseconds) periods. The ECM will also pull in the fuel pump relay in effect paralleling it electrically with the oil pressure switch.  The ECM also monitors the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor mounted on the throttle body assembly) and wants to see .54 volts at this time. If it sees more than 0.54 volts, it will assume the engine is flooded.  Assuming the ignition module is good the engine will "catch".

Engine "Catches":

When the engine catches, the MAF sends a signal to the ECM advising that air is flowing and also just how much air is being pulled through to the intake manifold. The ECM takes note of the amount of air being consumed and adjusts the injector pulse width to around 2.2 ms nominally so as to attain a proper air/fuel mixture to insure combustion.  The engine should show an initial idle speed of around 900-1100 RPM and then slowly diminish to 600-700 RPM.  If this does not happen, the Idle Air Mixture valve may be mis-adjusted. Alternatively, there may be a leak in the intake manifold or another vacuum leak may be present. Listen for hissing sounds---there should be none.

ECM Mode:

The engine will now be in Open Loop mode meaning that the ECM is controlling the air/fuel mixture by referencing values stored in memory.  Once the Oxygen sensor <if you have Cats> reaches operating temperature of several hundred degrees, the Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) sensor shows an intake air temperature of more than 140 degrees and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has reached 160 degrees, the computer will switch to closed loop mode meaning the Oxygen sensor's output is examined along with the MAT and ECT outputs and the ECM adjusts the injector pulse widths (more "on time" or less "on time") to constantly strive for a 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture which is the best mixture to hold down pollution.

Edited by formulaben
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Steve, this might be useful too:

·       BEEP CODES — the 4 maintenance items that can trigger the beeper are:

  • High engine water temperature (>203*)
  • Low oil pressure (<6 PSI)
  • High transmission temperature (>140?*)
  • A diagnostics trouble code

 

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Thanks Formulaben for a great detailed answer ,  went out to the VLX and looked for voltage at the pump at start . nothing..... 

wondering if fuel pump wont run cuz its not seeing pressure at the oil sensor...but wouldnt it eventually see pressure through the 

cranking cycle? 

One of your posts stated i could use a 1999 gm 350cid suburban sensor ... those are multi wire with gm connectors?

was gonna give that a try

thanks so much Formulaben....!!!

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My 2 cents is just replace the sensor (NOT the pressure sender unit) and eliminate it as a potential subject.  These switches are not expensive.  Could also be a fuel pump relay but for now I'd swap this part out.

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Thanks Formulaben ,  last question.... do you know if its a Normally open or Normally closed switch sensor? Hoping to find something locally quickly 

thanks again i will report back 

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12 hours ago, Towbot2 said:

Thanks Formulaben for a great detailed answer ,  went out to the VLX and looked for voltage at the pump at start . nothing..... 

wondering if fuel pump wont run cuz its not seeing pressure at the oil sensor...but wouldnt it eventually see pressure through the 

cranking cycle? 

One of your posts stated i could use a 1999 gm 350cid suburban sensor ... those are multi wire with gm connectors?

was gonna give that a try

thanks so much Formulaben....!!!

When you say no voltage at the pump at start, do you mean cranking or key-up?  It should run for 2 seconds with key to ON.  As for the sensor, it's a single wire.

https://www.bakesonline.com/indmar-oil-pressure-switch-sensor.html

img_4697.jpg

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Formulaben, no voltage at key on, no voltage at cranking... Does the pressure switch really kill the start altogether, I was under the impression you could remove the wire and get the chime alarm but it would still start and run

Thanks for your response!!

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No, just the start.  Fuel pump should run for 2 seconds at key up regardless of oil switch, so I would look at the fuel pump relay.  IIRC there is another relay there you can swap and see if that works...relay definitely cheaper than a new pump!

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just back from pulling every relay what a PIA , definately not service friendly... juiced each one and checked the switching ... all good 

I read somewhere about a fuel pump fuse? where would i find that ?

 while i was at it I checked  again no voltage at pump when keyed to on 

thanks Formulaben really really appreciate your suggestions !!!

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Hey Formulaben  thx for all the suggestions, 

Got it fixed , was the pump fuse, the fuse block was buried under the relays very poor design and not accessible, the fuse looked good but was just slightly blown it would ohm out if u held it right, should I be worried about the pump fuse blowing on a 15 yr old boat? What would be the cause?

Thx again!!

  • Like 2
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6 hours ago, Towbot2 said:

Hey Formulaben  thx for all the suggestions, 

Got it fixed , was the pump fuse, the fuse block was buried under the relays very poor design and not accessible, the fuse looked good but was just slightly blown it would ohm out if u held it right, should I be worried about the pump fuse blowing on a 15 yr old boat? What would be the cause?

Thx again!!

I would keep a few spare fuses handy.  To answer your question, it sounds like the pump is on its way out.  It is very typical for the current requirements for a DC motor to increase as it ages.  The primary causes are carbon buildup in the commutator, thickened lubrication in the bearings, and inefficiencies in the pumping action caused by worn parts. 

Running the engine at full load (like WOT or surfing)  presents a high load to the pump, since it has to keep up with the required flow at the required pressure.  I would expect those conditions to expose a tired pump long before it dies altogether.  Were you by chance surfing just before it quit?

My pump is still working, so I have never attempted a rebuild, but I suspect that it is possible.  The manufacturer probably didn't intend for you to rebuild them, so the trick is getting it apart in a way that allows you to put it back together.

Anyway, a reasonable test is case temperature of the pump body.  Does your pump get much hotter under load that it does with the engine idling or just cruising along?

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Hey Justgary, 

 I was acutally pulling surfers and turning to go back and pick up the rider, probably fuse blew underload but didnt run out of fuel until 

i was going back for the pick up.... thats a good idea checking temp on fuel pump housing or just maybe picking up a pump for spare.... Has Monsoon 

been using the same fuel pump for a while?

thanks for the reply 

 

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  • 11 months later...

Any update here? I recently had the same thing happen to me at Lake Powell last week. Both my 2006 VLX and my buddies master craft, same day. We both gassed up at the same station. We thought bad gas. The in line fuel filter hasn’t been changed in a couple years either. When I got home, found that I wasn’t getting power to the pump at startup. Checked the fuel pump fuse and it was blown. Hoping my pump isn’t on the way out and it tripped because of the filter. Towbot2, have you had any more issues with yours?

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