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weekender

800lb fat sac in pnp area 19 23lsv?

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weekender

Would a 800 lb fat sac fit in the 23 lsv 19 as a pnp bag?

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wdr
Posted (edited)

It will fit but it won’t fill all of the way. I have 570s in mine and I don’t fill them all of the way normally because it’s too much weight back there and the gates won’t work as designed. I am running an 850 Sumo in walk through to keep the bow down and lengthen the wave. 

Edited by wdr

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ahopkinsVTX

Probably not. The hard tanks were redesigned to go up the side of the boat to give you a more accurate reading of hard tank plus plug in play bag ballast level. Your best bet is to use the recommended bags which are 570’s. 

https://www.fatsac.com/custom

https://www.wakemakers.com/malibu-rear-factory-ballast-upgrade.html

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weekender

Thanks!!

I'm running the wake makers custom 580s in the back and half full they work great.

Was just curious how to get the best possible wave. Will play around w more people and try different wedge settings 

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ahopkinsVTX

Cue @NWBU for an optimized surf setup.

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NWBU
On 6/16/2019 at 6:40 AM, weekender said:

Thanks!!

I'm running the wake makers custom 580s in the back and half full they work great.

Was just curious how to get the best possible wave. Will play around w more people and try different wedge settings 

I’m not going to say this is the best possible wave but I’m really happy running the WM 580s full (all stock full too) with 250-300 lbs of lead spread around in the observer’s compartment and 4-6 clicks of PW3 (from lift).

Speed is usually 11.2, for 3300-3400 RPMs on the port side, and 3100-3200 RPMs on the starboard side (2277 prop and the 6.0 PCM).

Keep in mind I’m a regular rider so a predominately goofy crew would stack a little more of this weight on the starboard side. I just dump a little water from the port side to compensate when a goofy friend wants their turn.

7ED7BA3F-B66A-4FDF-B050-2A48A86AACD2.thumb.jpeg.aad1f47b0f402c0cb53bbddc07e5fb64.jpeg

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eubanks
16 hours ago, NWBU said:

7ED7BA3F-B66A-4FDF-B050-2A48A86AACD2.thumb.jpeg.aad1f47b0f402c0cb53bbddc07e5fb64.jpeg

Dang, that is a sick wave!  How the hell do you get that out of your 23?  My wave isn't half that long or clean.  We have the same bags in our 2019, 300 pounds of lead in walkway and throughout boat, wedge up a couple of clicks, and speed 10.8-11.

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racer808
2 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Dang, that is a sick wave!  How the hell do you get that out of your 23?  My wave isn't half that long or clean.  We have the same bags in our 2019, 300 pounds of lead in walkway and throughout boat, wedge up a couple of clicks, and speed 10.8-11.

If you remove the gas cap & replace everything after that to a 19 MB B52, your wave will be twice as sick

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wdr
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Dang, that is a sick wave!  How the hell do you get that out of your 23?  My wave isn't half that long or clean.  We have the same bags in our 2019, 300 pounds of lead in walkway and throughout boat, wedge up a couple of clicks, and speed 10.8-11.

eubanks, do you have the M5 and if so, what prop are you using and what rpm are you seeing with it with that set up?

Thanks

Edited by wdr

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NWBU
1 hour ago, eubanks said:

Dang, that is a sick wave!  How the hell do you get that out of your 23?  My wave isn't half that long or clean.  We have the same bags in our 2019, 300 pounds of lead in walkway and throughout boat, wedge up a couple of clicks, and speed 10.8-11.

This was literally the very first wave after filling the bags when I was done with break-in, so it's better now. Do you have anyone in your area with a 23 that you ride with that could help dial yours in? There's always photo angles at play with any wave pic but you should be able to get a great wave out of your boat, especially since I think you're goofy?

My lead placement right now is 150 lbs in the bow end of the observers compartment, 100 lbs under the observers seat (right where the storage deepens) and 50 lbs right behind the drivers seat under the flip-up seat. The extra weight on the port side hurts the goofy wave though, so I'd adjust that to be more evenly distributed, or even starboard biased, if I was a goofy rider. I rarely have more than 2 other adults in the boat but extra bodies just help the displacement. 

I've gone to using Vert wedge or one click below it and am running 11.2 now.

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Mattyb
On 6/16/2019 at 6:14 AM, wdr said:

It will fit but it won’t fill all of the way. I have 570s in mine and I don’t fill them all of the way normally because it’s too much weight back there and the gates won’t work as designed. I am running an 850 Sumo in walk through to keep the bow down and lengthen the wave. 

How do you decide where to fill to so that the gates will work as designed?  Like many of you, working to dial in the wave on a new boat!

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wdr
Posted (edited)

Trial and error mostly. With a bigger crew the set up changes, but that is not normal for us as everyone we know has a wake boat so I am trying to set it up for a normal 2 pax, me and the wife load. I normally only fill the bags part way or I see wave degradation from the gates being too deep or the tell tale water over the gates spray and a 4k surf rpm. The 850 (in the walk through) helps to drop the front to level the boat and lengthen the wave and what I think I will ultimately be able to do is maybe add a little more weight to the partially filled 570s to get a little more push. I have only had the chance to use 850 for one weekend so not much experimenting there yet. Other than the rpms, I am running a 2773,  I am trying to avoid looking at numbers until I find the best possible set up to avoid the "I need to fill this much to get the best wave" mentality. The smaller increments of change on the PW3 seem to help more than PW1 on my '10, but that could just be a Jedi mind trick on me. The '19 seems to not need as much wedge to get the same wave which makes sense it is a bigger boat in all respects except the interior. Mattyb are you using the 2249 prop?

Edited by wdr

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NWBU

Agree on the trial and error approach. My dealer fills the rears/PNP to 75% as a fairly normal demo setup, so that’s a place to start from.

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SouthsideBoarder
On 6/17/2019 at 5:15 PM, NWBU said:

I’m not going to say this is the best possible wave but I’m really happy running the WM 580s full (all stock full too) with 250-300 lbs of lead spread around in the observer’s compartment and 4-6 clicks of PW3 (from lift).

Speed is usually 11.2, for 3300-3400 RPMs on the port side, and 3100-3200 RPMs on the starboard side (2277 prop and the 6.0 PCM).

Keep in mind I’m a regular rider so a predominately goofy crew would stack a little more of this weight on the starboard side. I just dump a little water from the port side to compensate when a goofy friend wants their turn.

7ED7BA3F-B66A-4FDF-B050-2A48A86AACD2.thumb.jpeg.aad1f47b0f402c0cb53bbddc07e5fb64.jpeg

I’d like to place a bag in the walkway of my ‘18 23LSV. My local store has 370 pound and 750 pound fatsacs on sale. I know I can fill the 750 less but might not want to play with guessing how full it is. I’m 3 hrs from the boat so unsure how wide the walkway is either as I don’t want it pressing too hard against it.

The 750 is 20x20x50

370 11x12x62

Do you have a recommendation?

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wdr

I am running an 850 Sumo (20x20x50 same dimensions as the FH bag but 100 lbs more, go figure) more or less completely full in the walk way with no worries about crushing anything.

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Ronnie

On my last few 23LSV's, I run a 600 LB Sumo sac in the walkway if we only have a couple of us in the boat. The Sumo pump fills it fast too.

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SouthsideBoarder
Posted (edited)

Thanks. 

I’ll go for the 750. 

We usually only have 3 of us when surf so glad to hear it should fit and work well. 

Are Sumo bags better than fatsac or are they all similar enough?

Edited by SouthsideBoarder

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wdr

I have had FH bags exclusively over the years and they are good bags. I was going to go that route again but the FH bag requires a separate adapter to fill and drain and is a more involved process. The Sumo bag came with the Super Tsunami pump and an internal check valve built in to the bag so it is a great and crazy fast 4 mins to fill system. It was also about $30 cheaper than the FH bag with out the separate valve. Surprisingly both bags have the same dimensions, but 100 lbs claimed capacity difference.

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SouthsideBoarder

Thought I’d update. Did the 750 fly high bag in the walkway today and it was amazing the difference in push and length of the wave. Just awesome!

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Murphy8166

I run 400 lbs of fly high fat sac in the walkway and another 100 lbs of lead in the observer compartment.  I have started to plumb the ballast in with a reversible pump and it make for a really nice setup.  Currently getting a new boat each season so I just pull the gear out of the old boat and install in the new boat.

Here are a couple pictures of how I conceal everything. I use the center drain plug with a 3/4' threaded nipple into a ball valve.  I run the hose under the floor and into the storage area under the drivers helm.  Mount the pump and then make a quick connect fitting in the front hatch store area.  My reversible switch hangs out in the chubby hole behind the throttle. 

I refuse to ever throw a pump overboard again!

IMG_2277.jpg

IMG_2278.jpg

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Mattyb
On 6/19/2019 at 11:21 AM, wdr said:

Mattyb are you using the 2249 prop?

Yup,

 

fully loaded with pnp bags, the boat can’t get up to speed when the wedge is more than halfway to vert.  I have been experimenting with less water in the bags to see if that may do the trick. 

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eubanks
On 6/18/2019 at 10:22 AM, wdr said:

eubanks, do you have the M5 and if so, what prop are you using and what rpm are you seeing with it with that set up?

Thanks

Yeah, M5 with the “wake” prop. Don’t remember the model number...maybe 2249 or 2277. I looked at RPM numbers this past weekend. With full ballast, 5 adults,, 300 lbs of lead in the bow, 10.8mph, and wedge 2 clicks from lift we were running 3900-4000 rpms. Put the wedge just two more clicks towards vert and we were at 4200-4300 without changing anything else. To get to 30mph and no ballast we are running about 5000  

 

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wdr
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, eubanks said:

Yeah, M5 with the “wake” prop. Don’t remember the model number...maybe 2249 or 2277. I looked at RPM numbers this past weekend. With full ballast, 5 adults,, 300 lbs of lead in the bow, 10.8mph, and wedge 2 clicks from lift we were running 3900-4000 rpms. Put the wedge just two more clicks towards vert and we were at 4200-4300 without changing anything else. To get to 30mph and no ballast we are running about 5000  

 

Hmm.... I was seriously thinking of switching to the 2249 (default prop on the Malibu build site "when I ordered") from the 2773 that I ordered to get a better cursing speed . After seeing the numbers you are posting I am not so sure. I have never had a problem getting to speed with any load. With out any bow weight and full MLS with the rear 570s "full" and PW 2 clicks from LIFT I am seeing about 3900rpm. If I drain the 570s to where just the bottom portion of the bags are full I see @ 3750rpm at 11.2 mph which is higher than I like, but smack in the middle of the torque band which is where we normally surf. Add a click or 2 on the PW and I am into 4000/4050. With the 850 full in the walk through I see @ 4000/4050rpm  as well, but I don't think it needs that much bow weight. I have never crept into the 4200-4300 zone yet "when I was driving with a surfer" my son may have when he was driving but IDK. 20mph empty sees 3900rpm and I think I got to 30mph one time at about 5200 in a short sprint. I am at 62 hours now and I swear I noticed the engine relaxing/settling a little bit at around 58 hours.

Edited by wdr
sp

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eubanks

Thanks for the stats.  I'm not a very knowledgeable gear head so would the 4200 concern you?  Also, coming from an old mid 2000's Monsoon my crew were all complaining about the sound of the new M5 and how loud it is.  Ironic that there are all these "this engine is so quiet" marketing materials flying around right now.  So perhaps quieter than the old Raptor but this thing is dang loud.

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wdr
3 hours ago, eubanks said:

Thanks for the stats.  I'm not a very knowledgeable gear head so would the 4200 concern you?  Also, coming from an old mid 2000's Monsoon my crew were all complaining about the sound of the new M5 and how loud it is.  Ironic that there are all these "this engine is so quiet" marketing materials flying around right now.  So perhaps quieter than the old Raptor but this thing is dang loud.

This is the one thing the service manager kept beating me up about and I quote, "it is not your old 350 Monsoon, so you can't compare the 2" and to "drive it like I stole it". The verdict is still out on this guy and those statements, but he does have a valid point. This boat and the M5 are nothing like my 2010 and the 350 in it! Would I like to have to run @4200.  Nope, as it is past the range of the Malibu stated max torque @ 3800 rpm zone. I personally would like to keep it at or below that as a norm which I am close to now. From the sounds of it I am not going to be able to prop myself out of that zone and still maintain surf performance. Will it hurt anything, I would be the last person to ask. I am going to have my oil sent into Blackstone at the end of the season to see what the oil says. In support of that I am going to stay religious about the oil changes just like my 2010. I could be FOS, but I think 2 things make it sound louder. 1. There is no exhaust noise covering up any valve train noise or any noise for that matter. 2. My M5 runs typically 500-700 rpms faster in comparison to my 2010 350 for a given event so it is going to be louder. My buddy has a MOJO with the 400 Raptor in it. I am going to have to sit in his and compare. It is a smaller, lighter boat w/o a surf pipe so maybe not an apples to apples comparison.

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