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Guppydriver

Dealer Add On Fees.....Universal?

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Guppydriver

Long time lurker and first post. I’m unbelievably excited to be submitting an offer on Monday for a brand new A20 (2018 model but brand new). I’m crunching the numbers and was wondering if anyone could answer a quick question about the dealer add on fees..Specifically, the “boat and trailer prep” and “transportation charge from Loudon, TN.”

I am very familiar with a destination charge on an automobile.  They are set by the manufacturer and are universal and appear on the monroney no matter where you buy the car (with some exceptions).  I was wondering if these two fees on the Axis are also established by the manufacturer or are they left up to the specific dealer for additional padding.  The reason I ask is that the dealer seems to be pretty aggressive on pricing (even on 2019’s) based on what I have read here. I was wondering if they are just getting their money back via excessive dealer add in fees or if these charges seem pretty par for the course  

Basically under the MSRP and the options is a line that lists the two fees. 

The Boat and Trailer Prep Fee is $2583

The Transportation charge from Loudon TN is $3350

Total Dealer add on fees equal $5933. (Yes there is a doc fee and TTL in addition to this)

Is this universal (set by manufacturer) for my region (UT) or is it at the discretion of my dealer ?

Thanks  in advance and wish my kick negotiating!!

 

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Raimie

Find out what exactly is included in the prep fee. It may or may not include things like fire extinguisher, throwable cushion, life vests, trailer tie down straps, ballast bags etc...

It sounds pretty high to me, but all dealers are different and this is not a rate set by Malibu.

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Eagleboy99

Those fees sound incredibly high to me, but I guess what really matters is what the all-in price is.  If you got the boat for 20% off MSRP , then maybe...  etc.

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NWBU

Those both sound normal for west coast pricing, and the transport charge is less than you’ll see on Portland or Seattle window sticker.

It’s already been said but everything is negotiable. But it’s also the worst 2 months of the year for a buyer to have any leverage since a dealer isn’t bluffing if they tell you they can sell the boat to someone else by next weekend.

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Guppydriver
8 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Those fees sound incredibly high to me, but I guess what really matters is what the all-in price is.  If you got the boat for 20% off MSRP , then maybe...  etc.

I thought they sounded incredibly high as well, but it makes sense because it gives the appearance of a large percentage discount off of MSRP. They are offering a 22% percent discount off the 2018 and 18.5% off the 2019’s (which have a more expensive MSRP to boot). All without negotiation. This seemed a little odd for such a hot market, but it makes sense if they recoup their margin in inflated dealer fees. 

 

I’m looking at a Moomba Helix as well, so I’m hoping they go the extra mile to earn a life long customer. I prefer the Axis, but I would be happy with a competitor if it was an offer that I couldn’t refuse. 

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Guppydriver
7 hours ago, NWBU said:

Those both sound normal for west coast pricing, and the transport charge is less than you’ll see on Portland or Seattle window sticker.

It’s already been said but everything is negotiable. But it’s also the worst 2 months of the year for a buyer to have any leverage since a dealer isn’t bluffing if they tell you they can sell the boat to someone else by next weekend.

Good to know and thanks. The worst they can say is no I guess. It’s just business. If I have to wait to be financially prudent, then so be it, but I would sure love to be able to enjoy it the beginning of the season.  I also just heard back that there is a $500 doc fee in addition which I KNOW is a little ridiculous. 

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Eagleboy99

Ask for an itemized list.  And maybe there is stuff there you don't want r can do yourself?  Like that car dealer scam of window etching (VIN for theft reduction - although you know who the thieves already are!)  But maybe all-in on the west cost that is an OK deal.

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Guppydriver
Posted (edited)

I emailed  some offers in and just waiting to hear back. Basically, there are two boats I’m interested in. The 2019 has the sound 2.2, surf pipe, a few other options and is blue which I love, but I’m not sure I love it for the $ and I could probably always add my own amps, sub and those speakers as an add on.

Anyway.....  

 

The asking prices are as followed 

 

2018 

MSRP $75,033

Dealer fees (including transportation) $5933

Total “Sticker” $80,966

Their offer $63,063

 

2019

MSRP $82,612

Dealer Fees $5933

Total “Sticker” $88,545

Their Offer $72,177

A one time doc fee and TTL is all that would need be added to these. I’ve offered them about $1500 lower, so we will see. It sounds like these seem reasonable from you guys are saying. 

Edited by Guppydriver

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ahopkinsVTX

By my math those are 16% off msrp for the 18 and 13% off for the 19 which is right in line with what I’d expect for Axis. Your offer for 1500 less is fair though so either way it’s a fair deal. 

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granddaddy55
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

I emailed  some offers in and just waiting to hear back. Basically, there are two boats I’m interested in. The 2019 has the sound 2.2, surf pipe, a few other options and is blue which I love, but I’m not sure I love it for the $ and I could probably always add my own amps, sub and those speakers as an add on.

Anyway.....  

 

The asking prices are as followed 

 

2018 

MSRP $75,033

Dealer fees (including transportation) $5933

Total “Sticker” $80,966

Their offer $63,063

 

2019

MSRP $82,612

Dealer Fees $5933

Total “Sticker” $88,545

Their Offer $72,177

A one time doc fee and TTL is all that would need be added to these. I’ve offered them about $1500 lower, so we will see. It sounds like these seem reasonable from you guys are saying. 

(don’t 18’ have pw2 option) If pw2 on the 18, surf band, tandem trailer , that’s a good deal even if it doesn’t have sound pack 2.  Buy that if so equipped that’s a very good deal. , if this is an auto set wedge (19 is obviously pw3, i.e. surf pipe one option ) then you need to consider the more expensive new boat though you’ll end up upgrading the DSP proprietary amps 

The real winner is the 64000 pw2 boat

Edited by granddaddy55

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Guppydriver
On 6/4/2019 at 8:49 AM, granddaddy55 said:

(don’t 18’ have pw2 option) If pw2 on the 18, surf band, tandem trailer , that’s a good deal even if it doesn’t have sound pack 2.  Buy that if so equipped that’s a very good deal. , if this is an auto set wedge (19 is obviously pw3, i.e. surf pipe one option ) then you need to consider the more expensive new boat though you’ll end up upgrading the DSP proprietary amps 

The real winner is the 64000 pw2 boat

They both have auto wedge. The blue one has the surf pipe as a $715 stand alone option. 

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granddaddy55
4 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

They both have auto wedge. The blue one has the surf pipe as a $715 stand alone option. 

Isn’t the blue one the 2019, I thought for 2019 they were a package option, must be power wedge must have surfpipe but surfpipe doesn’t have to have power wedge , learned something there 

Now I don’t think the ‘19 is worth the price  without power wedge 

debatable whether the 18 is worth that price,  the reason he has these boats is they don’t have  power  wedge

i wouldn’t be too concerned about him moving the boats even if it is summer

i would  be patient on the 18 snd definitely offer less  

no reason to pay more for the 19 when they are same boat!!! 

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onewake09
35 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

Isn’t the blue one the 2019, I thought for 2019 they were a package option, must be power wedge must have surfpipe but surfpipe doesn’t have to have power wedge , learned something there 

Now I don’t think the ‘19 is worth the price  without power wedge 

debatable whether the 18 is worth that price,  the reason he has these boats is they don’t have  power  wedge

i wouldn’t be too concerned about him moving the boats even if it is summer

i would  be patient on the 18 snd definitely offer less  

no reason to pay more for the 19 when they are same boat!!! 

Since power wedge became an option on axis, I'd be willing to bet their havent been more than 10 a20's ordered with it. The a20 is considered a bottom of the line budget boat. Unless you have a length restriction that is and Id bet people would order a 20vtx. I have yet to see a dealer spec'd a20 with power wedge. Its extremely rare. Shoot, alot of people dealers that order in stock boats dont even option pw2 or 3 on a and t 22's.  

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ahopkinsVTX
2 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

Isn’t the blue one the 2019, I thought for 2019 they were a package option, must be power wedge must have surfpipe but surfpipe doesn’t have to have power wedge , learned something there 

Now I don’t think the ‘19 is worth the price  without power wedge 

debatable whether the 18 is worth that price,  the reason he has these boats is they don’t have  power  wedge

i wouldn’t be too concerned about him moving the boats even if it is summer

i would  be patient on the 18 snd definitely offer less  

no reason to pay more for the 19 when they are same boat!!! 

Floating / auto set wedge and power wedge are still options on all axis boats. You are correct that when your order PW3 you also get the surf pipe. 

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granddaddy55

Ok, but why not use it as a negotiating technique, buyer/OP needs all the advantages he can get 

18 is a holdover , Just don’t be eager !

i like new but he can buy a lot of used nice boats for those dollars, a lot bigger if he doesn’t have restrictions 

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Guppydriver

The 2018 sold unfortunately ! I got held back a day for work and someone came in and bought last night right before closing. Must be quite the sellers market I thought the 2018 was a good deal, I was calculating it at 22 percent off of MSRP + dealer fees and transport costs. I know they are salesmen, but mine (who I genuinely like) said that on the A20, having the power wedge really does nothing other than not having to manually deploy the wedge compared to the auto wedge. Plus, I have been reading how a lot of you don't even the use the power wedge to surf, so I didn’t think it was that big of a deal. 

 

Maybe I will start looking at Moomba more seriously now, I just love the simplicity and wave that the Axis has.  

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Guppydriver
On 6/6/2019 at 10:00 AM, granddaddy55 said:

Ok, but why not use it as a negotiating technique, buyer/OP needs all the advantages he can get 

18 is a holdover , Just don’t be eager !

i like new but he can buy a lot of used nice boats for those dollars, a lot bigger if he doesn’t have restrictions 

To be honest granddaddy, that’s what I thought as well, but the used marked is really hot right now and I’m not sure you can get a whole heck of a lot for 60ish. I want a later model boat that is more likely to not have big issues. I love the thought of having a warranty. When I bought my I/O used two years ago, every few weeks I was putting money into it fixing things. I don’t want my V-Drive to come with big unexpected expenses that I have to pay cash for. I like the thought of having a fixed monthly payment with only maintenance to budget for.

Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise the 2018 sold. I didn’t like the color much and now I can maybe even evaluate a slightly larger boat like the T22 because they have lots in stock as opposed to just 2 A20’s. 

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Eagleboy99

And the 2020's will be out soon.

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ahopkinsVTX
17 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

The 2018 sold unfortunately ! I got held back a day for work and someone came in and bought last night right before closing. Must be quite the sellers market I thought the 2018 was a good deal, I was calculating it at 22 percent off of MSRP + dealer fees and transport costs. I know they are salesmen, but mine (who I genuinely like) said that on the A20, having the power wedge really does nothing other than not having to manually deploy the wedge compared to the auto wedge. Plus, I have been reading how a lot of you don't even the use the power wedge to surf, so I didn’t think it was that big of a deal. 

 

Maybe I will start looking at Moomba more seriously now, I just love the simplicity and wave that the Axis has.  

I’m not sure I agree with the statement that the power wedge does nothing. It has a significant impact on the wave in our VTX which is also 20’. Not saying that you wouldn’t get a very good wave with the manual wedge, but I think it’s a significant factor if you can get PW in your budget. 

For reference, pictures are wedge settings from lift. 

Wedge at ramp:

5CBC04D8-E000-468F-9E6B-3F8932E8DC94.thumb.jpeg.f5e93044134a2de83b0fd2acdd02ba2c.jpeg

Wedge 2

181D7BD5-0A45-41D6-911E-D5A8806BB372.thumb.jpeg.73da87d196a7c05bbb8b8fa627eee43b.jpeg

Wedge 3

C60FD51D-86E6-4FF5-B211-EDFD5412E2A7.thumb.jpeg.79197eaad3bbe3f4efcc5aaadbce5250.jpeg

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boardjnky4

22% off on an Axis is damn near dealer cost.

Power Wedge definitely makes a difference. We use ours for surfing.

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Eagleboy99
4 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

22% off on an Axis is damn near dealer cost.

I doubt that.

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boardjnky4
14 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

I doubt that.

Axis margins aren’t as high as Malibu. You’d be surprised.

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Guppydriver
3 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

I doubt that.

To be fair ....

The 22% is comparing the asking price to the boat sticker price COMBINED with the dealer add on fees of $5933 (which include boat and trailer prep fee ($2583) and transportation fee ($3350) to UT. )  I wish I could attach a photo of the sticker price, but on the 2019 (the 18’ that was “22% off” sold), the base price boat and options total is $82,612. The two fees are $5933 making the sticker price appear to be $88,545. The asking price is $72,177 which is 81.5% of the total sticker price. However, it’s not truly indicative of percentage off because of the included boat and prep fee that I am sure paid their margin.  In other words, if the prep fee were $1000 instead of $2583, I’m sure they wouldn’t be offering “18.5” percent. 

 

Darn I really hope they can negotiate on a 2019. 

 

Thanks for for all your help everyone. I have learned so much from this forum and am in a much better position to make an educated purchase. 

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Guppydriver
Posted (edited)
On 6/4/2019 at 3:52 AM, ahopkinsVTX said:

By my math those are 16% off msrp for the 18 and 13% off for the 19 which is right in line with what I’d expect for Axis. Your offer for 1500 less is fair though so either way it’s a fair deal. 

I’m not a smart man Jenny, so I just want to ask a dumb question.  Your math doesn’t include the transportation fee or boat and trailer prep fee to get to your percentage off MSRP.  Is that how everyone figures it pretty much? The general consensus I hear is 10% off  standard deal.  15% good deal. 20% smoking deal.  When people use these “rules of thumb” are they not factoring in the two fees which I assume most people pay? I ask because it obviously makes a huge difference. I was taking the asking price and dividing it by the total price on the sticker (boat+options+transportation charge+boat and trailer prep fee) which was giving me a very high percentage discount of sticker price (22% and 18.5%). Naturally, I thought I was being offered an incredible deal.  However, using your method of asking price divided by sticker price less dealer add ons (boat+options) results in a much lesser percentage discount (16% and 13%). 

 

When people on on this forum talk about their % off deals, should I assume the standard is your method?  That’s kind of why I was curious if the transportation fee was set by the manufacturer (like a car) or if it’s at the sole discretion of the dealer with additional revenue margin built in. I just want to know so I’m more aptly able to know how much negotiation leverage I realistically have compared to the consensus   

Edited by Guppydriver

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ahopkinsVTX
42 minutes ago, Guppydriver said:

I’m not a smart man Jenny, so I just want to ask a dumb question.  Your math doesn’t include the transportation fee or boat and trailer prep fee to get to your percentage off MSRP.  Is that how everyone figures it pretty much? The general consensus I hear is 10% off  standard deal.  15% good deal. 20% smoking deal.  When people use these “rules of thumb” are they not factoring in the two fees which I assume most people pay? I ask because it obviously makes a huge difference. I was taking the asking price and dividing it by the total price on the sticker (boat+options+transportation charge+boat and trailer prep fee) which was giving me a very high percentage discount of sticker price (22% and 18.5%). Naturally, I thought I was being offered an incredible deal.  However, using your method of asking price divided by sticker price less dealer add ons (boat+options) results in a much lesser percentage discount (16% and 13%). 

 

When people on on this forum talk about their % off deals, should I assume the standard is your method?  That’s kind of why I was curious if the transportation fee was set by the manufacturer (like a car) or if it’s at the sole discretion of the dealer with additional revenue margin built in. I just want to know so I’m more aptly able to know how much negotiation leverage I realistically have compared to the consensus   

I’m not sure how orhers calculate their percent off. I’d calculate your out the door price vs msrp because that’s what you are actually going to pay. 

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