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joaquin12345

Is Service Dept screwing me?

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joaquin12345

Long story bare with me. I have a 2005 LSV with the Monsoon 350. 6 wks ago went to lake for first time. Everything was running great. I stopped in middle of lake to listen to engine. I was just out there to make sure everything was good after De-winterizing. When I stopped I heard a tiny rattle. Thought it was belt so I stopped engine. Checked everything out, looked good. Tried to start and just clicked. Thought it was battery so I boosted but just clicked. Towed in pulled starter and when I did noticed a 10inch crack on bell housing. Pulled starter, and tiny spring pieces fell out. Found out about the damper plate failures on these models. Have 464hrs. 2005 model. Anyways went to Malibu mechanic locally and asked about a quote. They told me 6-8 hours labor plus parts if I removed all seats and braces. Did that. Took it in. Been 5 weeks. Never get calls so I have to go in periodically to check in that’s when they talk. Anyways finally they started on it, removed engine, replaced damper plate, flywheel, bell housing. Started to put engine back in and attached to prop shaft. Said they went ahead and put boat in gear and tried to spin prop by hand to make sure everything is connected. Well it’s hung up. Went in today cause don’t ever get a call and mechanic is telling me this and that he has to now remove engine again separate transmission and vdrive and see if any of those are hung up because they think it might have damaged those as well. I told them I wasn’t going to pay any labor on removal again and installation a second time if this is on them. Wondering if any of you guys that know about this if there’s a big chance my vdrive or transmission were damaged when damper plate failed?  Also what would cause the prop not to spin by hand while in gear when they put everything back. Obviously boat is off. Before I took the boat in I put it in gear while off and my neighbor spun the prop to make sure the flywheel was spinning and it did turn slowly. We were just trying to make sure Engine wasn’t hung up. Anyways thoughts?  

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JasonK

Could it have been locked up in the forward direction, but the neighbor spun it in the reverse direction?

Maybe the shop should have checked the trans and v-drive for damage before they re-assembled.

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formulaben
1 hour ago, joaquin12345 said:

Said they went ahead and put boat in gear and tried to spin prop by hand to make sure everything is connected. Well it’s hung up.

You lost me here, what do you mean by this?  Are you saying they started the engine and then put it in gear?  Or put it in gear with engine off/stopped and tried to spin the prop?

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joaquin12345
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, formulaben said:

You lost me here, what do you mean by this?  Are you saying they started the engine and then put it in gear?  Or put it in gear with engine off/stopped and tried to spin the prop?

Engine hasn't been turned on. They loosely connect everything shifted the transmission into gear and tried to spin prop by hand to make sure everything is rotating before fully bolting everything down then realizing this after all done and boat does go. Transmission/vdrive are all connected to the engine when I say loosely connected I mean engine/transmission mounts.

Edited by joaquin12345
Forgot some info

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Steve B.

I'm sure others will chime in. Even in neutral, mine is hard to spin by hand. Hope all goes well. Keep us posted.

Steve B.

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joaquin12345
1 minute ago, Steve B. said:

I'm sure others will chime in. Even in neutral, mine is hard to spin by hand. Hope all goes well. Keep us posted.

Steve B.

See that's what I thought as well. I remember changing out my prop before and it was hard to spin. Even before I took it to the shop I spun the prop in gear and so did my neighbor. We both spun it to make sure engine wasn't locked up as well since I didn't know the prob at the time. I remember it turn but was hard to do as in the passed.

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mikeo

I forget the exact name, but the gasket/bearing on the driveshaft that goes through the hull (cutlass bearing) needs to be wet or it binds and makes it very difficult to turn. I assume the shop knows this. On my '15 if I try to spin the prop shaft while the boat is on the trailer (dry) it is almost impossible and it sounds horrible.

I'm not suggesting to put it in the water, but maybe try turning the engine from the front with a large socket wrench or breaker bar. The prop shaft may need to be disconnected from the trans. Just my .02, I know there are much smarter engine/driveline people on TMC who may chime in.

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Falko

Wait, they connected the engine to the trans and v-drive, put it in gear (as to fully connect the prop to the crankshaft) and tried to spin the assembly by turning the prop?  I would expect that you wouldn't be able to turn it. You can't spin an engine turning a prop. Trans has to be in neutral to spin the prop.

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joaquin12345

So after they removed the engine they fixed the flywheel/damper plate and installed a new bell housing. They then mated the transmission and vdrive back to the bellhousing. Went to reinstall the engine. Loosely connected the mounting brackets then pushed the prop shaft back into place connected them. Put the transmission into gear and tried to turn the prop. This is where the mechanic is saying it felt hung up and they couldn’t get it to spin so he wants to remove everything again. Unbolt transmission from vdrive see if that turns if it does then see if the vdrive spins as well. Anyways just frustrating. Obviously I hope neither of those are damaged but then also wondering why these guys don’t seem to be able to diagnose a simpler way.  For you guys reading if your close to your boat. Go see if you can turn your prop by hand in neutral. If I remember correctly this wasn’t easy either. Then put in gear and see if it turns at all. Obviously boat off or it was nice knowing your hands 

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formulaben
1 minute ago, joaquin12345 said:

Go see if you can turn your prop by hand in neutral.

100% yes.  Some are stiffer than others, but should turn for sure.

2 minutes ago, joaquin12345 said:

Then put in gear and see if it turns at all.

I've never had a reason to do that...I would think that the trans needs to be turning to utilize hydraulic pressure to engage the clutch, but not sure.  Either way I fail to see what is being accomplished with this check.

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Slayer

FWIW, I think you need to grab some Vasoline, KY, or Astro-Glide because you're getting the shaft.  

 

 

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MadMan

Sounds to me like they need to align the driveshaft.  It's a common inboard procedure.

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Sixball

I am very confused after looking at this. :dontknow:   Put into gear and tried to rotate the prop?

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formulaben
3 hours ago, MadMan said:

Sounds to me like they need to align the driveshaft.  It's a common inboard procedure.

Doesn't sound like it, but I'm HOPING that is what they're trying to do and it's getting lost in translation.

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BlindSquirrel

I agree with the confused crowd... ever put a car or motorcycle in gear when off, then try to push it.... she won’t move:dontknow:

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joaquin12345

Boardjnky4,

If Im understanding correctly if they did this then the prop should spin by hand when they connect the prop shaft to the vdrive? I guess that's what he was saying that when they did this it did not turn. If I remember correctly my prop has never turned very easily by hand even in neutral.  Ive changed out props and with the prop shaft nut wrench connected it turns but not super easy. Anyways just trying to think this in my head about what exactly he's talking about. I still don't see how the damper plate failing would cause the transmission or vdrive to also fail.  Before this happened everything was running flawlessly. Ive never had one issue with that boat. I was underway then suddenly heard rattling. I had stopped completely and listened and heard a slight rattle then shut everything off. I checked all fluids and nothing was smoking, didn't have pieces of anything on any dipstick. Im going to let the memorial weekend pass then Ill be going up there if they haven't worked on it which I doubt they will. I just don't know why they didn't check this before trying to install the engine/transmission/vdrive back. I told them I wasn't paying for the extra hours its taking to do this part because they should have checked before. Im not a mechanic but when I do work on engines or anything at that I check over all parts and during installation. I guess Im not paid by the hour so I understand now :/ . Either way I think its simple. If they are worried disconnect prop shaft then see if that spins, if hard prob because seal isn't wet or lubricated, then spin the vdrive in that spot by hand, if this doesn't happen then I can see them doing more.

 

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boardjnky4
Posted (edited)

It’s hard to say without observing the situation and feeling what they’re feeling.

Anything is possible, but it should be very straightforward to determine if the trans is locked up.

Last summer a friend’s boat had its trans lock up while underway. I swam under the boat and it was locked SOLID.

It’s also possible that your trans or vdrive locked up and that is actually what caused the damper plate to fail. Seems unlikely based on the description and the known failure point.

Edited by boardjnky4

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formulaben
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, joaquin12345 said:

If I remember correctly my prop has never turned very easily by hand even in neutral.  Ive changed out props and with the prop shaft nut wrench connected it turns but not super easy.

There should be some resistance, especially when dry.  If your alignment is off it will be harder to turn. 

In the meantime, I'd get back with the shop and ask them specifically what they are doing...something doesn't add up here and hoping it's just someone not using correct phraseology.

Edited by formulaben

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joaquin12345

Update:  So originally they removed engine only and left trans/vdrive installed. Replaced damper plate/flywheel. When they went to install engine they tried to turn prop by hand with everything connected but not 100% bolted down. Prop didn’t turn so removed engine and checked transmission. It’s locked up so hit a quote for $2500 for transmission and 3 hrs labor since engine is already out and already getting charged for that removal/install for damper plate. Reg rate is $155hr. I know the manager so giving me rate of $90hr. So far I’m at $5600 for labor and parts for damper plate screwing up and transmission replacement. First time boat has actually cost me money other then maintenance. Crazy. 

Question could the transmission going out have been the reason damper plate went out?  It’s strange because I was literally driving on smooth water, me alone, just taking out for first time of the season. Went 3/4 throttle and everything felt and sounded great. Stopped listened and heard a slight rattle then never spun over again. Sounded like dead starter/battery. Only thing that I can think of is last season at the end we took on some water after middle plug under center seat next to vdrive was left out. Water got up to floor by the time I noticed. Water was almost to top of transmission. Quickly emptied water. Fluids looked good. Boat ran great all day. Maybe took it out one last time then winterized. Wondering if that’s what caused this. 

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wakesonthesnake

I doubt that could have caused your issues.  Sorry to hear about the expense.

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Nitrousbird
On 5/29/2019 at 3:09 PM, joaquin12345 said:

Question could the transmission going out have been the reason damper plate went out?

No.  As soon as you mentioned cracked bell housing, I was very certain you had a 2005 before even looking.  If you have a 2005 Indmar GEN-I SBC motor, it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when the damper plate will let go.  Most say the bell housing is the cause.

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95echelon
On 5/30/2019 at 9:11 PM, Nitrousbird said:

No.  As soon as you mentioned cracked bell housing, I was very certain you had a 2005 before even looking.  If you have a 2005 Indmar GEN-I SBC motor, it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when the damper plate will let go.  Most say the bell housing is the cause.

How do you check if your 05 has that particular motor? Were there 340's with a different generation motor? Mine has super high hours (nearly 1400) and I am wondering if there is a way for me to check if this has already been done by the previous owner...

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goodmatt78

Im with you.  I am on my 3rd season on my 05 VLX and about a month after purchase, I started reading about this subject.....EEEEK!  Im around 400 hrs and she's still purring like a kitten.  I originally called the local dealer about swapping it as preventative maintenance and they talked me out of it.

I just changed my starter yesterday....no bits fell out, but the flywheel is rusty.  :-)

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Nitrousbird
3 hours ago, 95echelon said:

How do you check if your 05 has that particular motor? Were there 340's with a different generation motor? Mine has super high hours (nearly 1400) and I am wondering if there is a way for me to check if this has already been done by the previous owner...

Is it a LS1 or Big Block?  If not, it is the old GEN-SBC.  Can't tell that...does it have a distributor?  If so, it isn't the LS1 or Big Block, as they don't use distributors.  Plus many other differences. 

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