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rvan

2018 LSV fresh water inlet Valve OFF - damage??

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rvan

I put my LSV in the water today after a very long winter in storage (northern Ontario).  After leaving the dock and heading toward camp (5-8 minutes) the boat start to fill with smoke and I had power loss from the engine.  I immediately killed the engine to address the billowing smoke from the engine compartment.  After rescue from a passing boat and getting the tow of shame from a 12' tin boat, I opened the engine compartment for further inspection to see burnt wired and hoses.  I inspected to find the problem and it looks as though the water intake valve was turned off during the winterization process and NOT turned back on.  This means that the boat was without the water to cool the exhaust for several minutes including at higher RPMs.  The water hoses that attach to the exhaust blew right off and the exhaust pipes even started to bubble.  I understand this engine to have a closed cooling system......what do I need to be worried about?  Could this lack of water on the exhaust side have destroyed the engine?  What questions should I be asking the company that winterized the boat and furthermore the dealer that I will be bringing the boat back to (5-6 hour drive).  I am sure the full exhaust system will need to be replaced, but I want to know about the engine itself?

thanks for any help

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Raimie

If you have a water intake valve, you don't have a closed cooling system. Your engine is cooled by the raw water that is cycled though the engine/trans, then back out through the exhaust. This is potentially a 'big deal'. I would take your boat to the dealer and let them do a complete evaluation of what should be replaced. This is a shame and I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. I am very surprised your engine overheat alarm didn't sound before temps got so high to cause this kind of damage.

FWIW, it is a common practice by many to close the raw water valve during winterization (I however don't). Part of recommission in the spring is opening the valve.

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hethj7
Posted (edited)

Yea, sorry to say it, but this doesn't sound good in terms of repair cost or time.   


Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm certainly not trying to rub salt in fresh wounds, but it is good practice the first time out each season to let the engine come up to temp at the dock/on the trailer and make sure you have no leaks and water flow, which would hold the engine at temp.   

Some boats are partially closed cooled (if you have a 2018 23LSV, yours is partially closed cooled)- they use antifreeze in the engine block and typically the heater core, but still rely on raw water from the lake to run through the heat exchanger and cool the antifreeze (just like a car radiator, but using water instead of air).   Raw water may typically still run through the exhaust manifolds as well.  

FYI - If you have a flush kit (where you can hook a hose up to the engine,) that valve must be closed so water runs up to the engine vs. out the valve and the bottom of the boat when running on a hose.   


Check with your insurance.  I was surprised to learn while chatting with Progressive online last fall that my policy covered winterization errors.    I hope yours does as well!

Edited by hethj7

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Txstoj

@Raimie, I believe as the Hulk discovered a few years ago. If no water is running through the engine, it can't register a high temp to sound alarm.

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formulaben
10 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

...but it is good practice the first time out each season to let the engine come up to temp at the dock/on the trailer and make sure you have no leaks and water flow, which would hold the engine at temp.  

This.  First outing I always wait a bit and make sure everything looks good before leaving the trailer.  Depending on maintenance schedule, it will be the first time for new engine oil (always), raw water impeller, new trans fluid, new v-drive fluid, ballast upgrades/repairs, or any other miscellaneous maintenance from the previous winter. 

Without a doubt, if there is something bad to happen, odds are very good it is this day when it does.  Just reading the forum today you'll see a few mentions of it.

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gregtay
14 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

 

FYI - If you have a flush kit (where you can hook a hose up to the engine,) that valve must be closed so water runs up to the engine vs. out the valve and the bottom of the boat when running on a hose.   

 

This info on the flush kit is good to know!.. I hadn't thought of that.  MY understanding is that Malibu requires the flush kit for the M5/M6 motors (at least that was what I was told) so I expect a lot of people will run into needing to know this when they hook it up to the hose.

 

Sorry to hear about your 1st day not going so well @rvan :-/  Hope things turn out and the exhaust manifolds took the brunt of the damage. 

 

 

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gregtay
15 minutes ago, Txstoj said:

@Raimie, I believe as the Hulk discovered a few years ago. If no water is running through the engine, it can't register a high temp to sound alarm.

But in the case of the 1/2 closed cooled engine wouldn't the temp sensor be sitting in the coolant on the closed side?   My guess is his coolant circulated fine but it wasn't getting cooled by the heat exchanger since it was basically empty on the raw side.  The exhaust risers would have been the first thing to really overheat (and melt) since the hot exhaust had no cooling.  In this case my guess (my hope) is that the exhaust hoses overheated (cooked!) before anything on the closed (engine) side of the motor overheated by much.  Situation would have likely been worse if this was a fully open system.

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gregtay
7 minutes ago, formulaben said:

This.  First outing I always wait a bit and make sure everything looks good before leaving the trailer.  Depending on maintenance schedule, it will be the first time for new engine oil (always), raw water impeller, new trans fluid, new v-drive fluid, ballast upgrades/repairs, or any other miscellaneous maintenance from the previous winter. 

Without a doubt, if there is something bad to happen, odds are very good it is this day when it does.  Just reading the forum today you'll see a few mentions of it.

Same. In those "1st outing" situations we back down the ramp and start the motor still hooked up.  We then pull all the engine cover and v-drive cover and look around for leaks, any water, etc and listen for any strange noises.  After a min or so I will unhook the boat and my wife will float just off the ramp while I park the car and she keeps a close watch on the gauges.  Once I get back on board we will sit in the no wake zone till the temp is up, then we head out power up for a min or two then stop again, look one last time at the engine and v-drive areas just to make sure all is good.  It has saved us more than once (every time it was something simple (loose plug, something was left disconnected after service, etc.)

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hethj7
12 minutes ago, gregtay said:

This info on the flush kit is good to know!.. I hadn't thought of that.  MY understanding is that Malibu requires the flush kit for the M5/M6 motors (at least that was what I was told) so I expect a lot of people will run into needing to know this when they hook it up to the hose.

 

Sorry to hear about your 1st day not going so well @rvan :-/  Hope things turn out and the exhaust manifolds took the brunt of the damage. 

 

 

Hmm, I need to look at my M6 closer.  I was thinking on first glance, i didn't see a hose connection readily available, but I may be wrong.   On my 2016, the hose connection was right above the valve at the strainer - water would just pour back out the bottom of the boat if that valve wasn't closed.  

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gregtay
2 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Hmm, I need to look at my M6 closer.  I was thinking on first glance, i didn't see a hose connection readily available, but I may be wrong.   On my 2016, the hose connection was right above the valve at the strainer - water would just pour back out the bottom of the boat if that valve wasn't closed.  

My hose inlet is on the back of the transom, so hard to miss if you have it.  My dealer informed me I had to order the flush kit as Malibu required it with the new motors. No idea if that is true, maybe it was just a recommendation, some misinformation, or my dealer just found it was much easier for them to work on boats with it.  I'm am happy to have the function (certainly easier and I trust it a bit more than a fake-a-lake) but it does stick out a bit and hope no one bangs a shin on it.

Capture.thumb.JPG.fb88044789ccd630e77c0e84d3af34cb.JPG

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Hemmy
9 minutes ago, gregtay said:

Same. In those "1st outing" situations we back down the ramp and start the motor still hooked up.  We then pull all the engine cover and v-drive cover and look around for leaks, any water, etc and listen for any strange noises.  After a min or so I will unhook the boat and my wife will float just off the ramp while I park the car and she keeps a close watch on the gauges.  Once I get back on board we will sit in the no wake zone till the temp is up, then we head out power up for a min or two then stop again, look one last time at the engine and v-drive areas just to make sure all is good.  It has saved us more than once (every time it was something simple (loose plug, something was left disconnected after service, etc.)

I did normal check for leaks.  Also, one of the first things I did was check my flush kit to make sure water was passing through the clear plastic cylinder to make sure the impeller was working properly.

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G Spot
8 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Hmm, I need to look at my M6 closer.  I was thinking on first glance, i didn't see a hose connection readily available, but I may be wrong.   On my 2016, the hose connection was right above the valve at the strainer - water would just pour back out the bottom of the boat if that valve wasn't closed.  

Correct, it has the strainer bowl but no hose hookup. 

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hethj7

@gregtay  That connection on the transom is definitely an option.   If you run in salt, the dealer may have basically stated it as being required to flush after an outing, but certainly it isn't required on the M5/M6.    I was thinking like G Spot - that perhaps there was a connection in the engine bay I was unaware of, but he confirmed my memory - strainer bowl with no hose hook up.  It may be an option even in the engine bay, but I am not sure.   I think the strainer with hook up on my 2016 was an option vs. standard as well.  

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gregtay
Just now, hethj7 said:

@gregtay  That connection on the transom is definitely an option.   If you run in salt, the dealer may have basically stated it as being required to flush after an outing, but certainly it isn't required on the M5/M6.    I was thinking like G Spot - that perhaps there was a connection in the engine bay I was unaware of, but he confirmed my memory - strainer bowl with no hose hook up.  It may be an option even in the engine bay, but I am not sure.   I think the strainer with hook up on my 2016 was an option vs. standard as well.  

Got it. I don't run in salt (but plenty of it around here... so maybe my dealer just really encourages people to check the box.) In my case I wouldn't have ordered it but they checked the box for me and said it was req'd.  No biggy. Well... I suppose if I were the person buying the boat from me down the road and saw that option installed I would be worried the boat was ordered to be run in salt :-/.)

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hethj7

You will be glad you have it if you ever run it out of the water.  That makes it very convenient!  

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minnmarker
Posted (edited)

Where did the OP go? @rvan  With a 2012 VLX would he have closed cooling?  At least his moniker says 2012.  No fluid in there would explain the no temp alarm.  I fear he has a mess on his hands.

Edited by minnmarker
addition

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Sparky450
49 minutes ago, gregtay said:

This info on the flush kit is good to know!.. I hadn't thought of that.  MY understanding is that Malibu requires the flush kit for the M5/M6 motors (at least that was what I was told) so I expect a lot of people will run into needing to know this when they hook it up to the hose.

 

Sorry to hear about your 1st day not going so well @rvan :-/  Hope things turn out and the exhaust manifolds took the brunt of the damage. 

 

 

My M6 does not have a flush kit. At least that I have seen. And I was not told about one. 

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gregtay
1 minute ago, Sparky450 said:

My M6 does not have a flush kit. At least that I have seen. And I was not told about one. 

Okay.. well with that many data points we can agree that it was some misinformation my dealer had. No biggy.. I paid a few extra bucks and got a flush kit. :)

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gregtay
6 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Where did the OP go? @rvan  With a 2012 VLX would he have closed cooling?  At least his moniker says 2012.  No fluid in there would explain the no temp alarm.  I fear he has a mess on his hands.

That is what I thought at first.. but his post clearly stated 18 LSV.. so guessing he got a new boat and didn't update his profile.

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Pnwrider
15 hours ago, hethj7 said:

  I think the strainer with hook up on my 2016 was an option vs. standard as well.  

Not sure on the 16s but in 2018 the sea strainer was standard on Malibu and an option on Axis. 

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victoryismine06

Is the valve right above the strainer on the 18s? I have zero water going through the strainer but didn't notice a valve when I glanced. Maybe I missed it. 

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Sixball

Ouch!  I run my boat on a fake a lake and watch Oil pressure temp voltage after winter hibernation.I also look for water from the exhaust. I run long enough to be sure the thermostat  opens and close. At the launch I idle with the engine cover open and check again as I idle down the lake. One of the big advantage to having a strainer, easy water flow check!  If the OP's boat has no closed cooling this could be very bad if it does its just bad. 

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carguy79ta
Posted (edited)

I have an H6(prolly about the same as the M6) in my boat, I ran mine on a fake lake to warm the oil, before the end of season oil change, then ran it after. This spring, I replaced fuel filters and ran it on the FL. Just wanted to make sure no probs. On  our first outing,We also kept an eye on the temp until we were satisfied all was well.

Edited by carguy79ta

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pauley71

I hook a hose to the transom and NEVER close the thru hull.  It has a check valve in it and lets water run towards the engine only.

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Hemmy
11 hours ago, victoryismine06 said:

Is the valve right above the strainer on the 18s? I have zero water going through the strainer but didn't notice a valve when I glanced. Maybe I missed it. 

It should be below and to the left of the strainer.  Look for a red (I think red) handle toward the bottom of the bilge.

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