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jfw432

Manual wedge mods

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jfw432

I feel like this has to have been covered but I can't seem to find any real information on it. I've read a bunch of threads about converting a manual wedge to a floating wedge and floating wedge to a power wedge but they all seem to get derailed before anyone reaches a conclusion. Even if these did reach a conclusion, the wedges themselves appear to be for sale but the mounts aren't. I'm not going to drive 4-5 hours round trip to a Malibu dealership to have them install a new wedge either especially considering I'd have to do that trip twice and lose my boat for several weeks. 

Has anyone modded the older manual wedge to give a little more effectiveness? I've got a 2000 Response LX and I can't drill any extra holes in the existing mounting bracket because there just isn't any room. I've had people fail to lock it in the down position effectively making it a floating wedge style but on my boat, it just flips back so far that it doesn't do anything. I'm not looking for massive gains here. Ideally, a little more like having an extra person or two in the boat at wakeboarding speeds would be perfect. However, the biggest goal with this would be to wakesurf without ballast.

My current thoughts are below:
1. Attempt to remove the existing wedge mount. If I can get to it to get it out,  I could weld up a new one that will allow for more adjust-ability. Would be pretty cheap but I don't know what the hull can take and what the wedge can take. 
2. Attach a larger foil or more effective airfoil. Seems like this would be easier to attach but way harder to accomplish as it may require more precision work. 
3. Last option I can currently think of is to somehow modify the existing mounting bracket to allow for more angle. This seems like the hardest. Bolting something else to it looks tricky with the close proximity of the exhaust and the original position of the wedge arms. I don't know for sure but I'm guessing the mount is made of aluminum and I don't have the capability to weld aluminum or re-heat treat it after welding. 

 

Opinions?

 

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IndyFerg
6 minutes ago, jfw432 said:

However, the biggest goal with this would be to wakesurf without ballast.

I am by no means a boat or wakesurfing expert.  However, I highly doubt any wedge modifications would enable you to surf that boat with only the wedge for displacement.  I have a 2018 T22 with the floating wedge and there is no way it would have a surfable wave without ballast full and just the wedge deployed.  Even with stock ballast + wedge I haven't been able to go ropeless much yet (part of it likely due to my surfing skills).

Just my $0.02.

Best of luck on your modification though, interested to see what others say!

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Eagleboy99

Wedge alone on a Response for surfing?  No way.  We surf ours (well my kids do very nicely, ropeless) with the wedge, a bow sack, and two more by the motor/rear locker.  

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anotherrunner83

not that it couldn't be done, but i imagine it would have to be a massive foil to generate enough down force  at the surf speeds to to create the displacement required give you a decent wave

on another note, am i the only that has negative results trying to surf with the wedge down?  it completely washes out my wave.  i'm running mls full plus 900s in the lockers and a suck gate.  wedge just about ruins the wave.  

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jfw432

I have surfed on my boat with a driver and 2 average sized passengers in the back corner with the wedge down but it was all I could do to stay with the boat. Granted I do have a longer and faster board than most people use behind the big V drive boats with 1000+ lbs of ballast. For my application, a 400-500lb in fat sac with 2 people and a driver or the equivalent in wedge downforce would get me to where I could surf and have a good time.  That's all I'm really looking to gain here and I'm always going to have at least 1-2 other people with me so I'm really only looking to get that extra 400-500lb fat sac replaced with the wedge. 

I have pictures of us surfing on my boat but not sure how to post on here. 

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blk93jeepzj
27 minutes ago, anotherrunner83 said:

not that it couldn't be done, but i imagine it would have to be a massive foil to generate enough down force  at the surf speeds to to create the displacement required give you a decent wave

on another note, am i the only that has negative results trying to surf with the wedge down?  it completely washes out my wave.  i'm running mls full plus 900s in the lockers and a suck gate.  wedge just about ruins the wave.  

@anotherrunner83Sounds like you need bow weight...    Wave will probably wash out if you throw the wedge down in that scenario, if you can even get on plane.  

Do you have a MLS bow tank?  

Stern you have 2300lbs without the wedge.  Starting point would be 40(bow)/60(stern) split of weight.  So between the bow and midship you need 1400lbs total to equal the 40%.  Take out the 500 midship and you still need 900 in the bow area.    

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Gavin17
2 hours ago, anotherrunner83 said:

not that it couldn't be done, but i imagine it would have to be a massive foil to generate enough down force  at the surf speeds to to create the displacement required give you a decent wave

on another note, am i the only that has negative results trying to surf with the wedge down?  it completely washes out my wave.  i'm running mls full plus 900s in the lockers and a suck gate.  wedge just about ruins the wave.  

It depends on our setup and how many passengers etc.  Sometimes the wedge helps our wave and sometimes it doesnt.  I think the best wave I've made was with a bunch of ballast and 10ish passengers and no wedge. Other times with a lighter load wedge definitely helps.  

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Wayne

Are you using any type of “surf gate” device?  Honestly this will do more for you than screwing around with modification on the wedge. It’s been a while but some where on here there was a floating versus fixed wedge discussion and the difference is negligible on a Response. Also the “floating” wedge does not move when the boat is underway. It stays at the bottom of its travel unless you modify it to lock in other positions. A power wedge could help but not much. At some point your going to run out of freeboard on the response hull. I’ve had my 2009 RLXI weighted such that the water line was just barely below the rear vents and have a floating wedge. The wave was surfable but I would never do that on a public lake. Just not safe. 

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Eagleboy99

Pretty sure that the 2000 Response can't accept a surfgate.  My 99 cannot.

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Wayne

You are correct which is why I said “surf gate” device. Meaning any of the aftermarket or home made variants.  

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jfw432

We have used a surfgate device when we had the fat sacs but I've never used it with just 2-3 people onboard. I'm not sure there is enough weight at that point for the device be of much help. It's mostly just grabbing chine spray at that point. We have used a surfgate device when we had the fat sacs but I've never used it with just 2-3 people onboard. 

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Eagleboy99
1 hour ago, Wayne said:

You are correct which is why I said “surf gate” device. Meaning any of the aftermarket or home made variants.  

None of the aftermarket devices I've tried will work on the 99 RLX due to the stepped hull.  I will have to make my own.

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BEN307

we had more welded on the back of our manual wedge bracket of our 05 vlx so we could drill two more sets of holes(there is little to no meat between the holes drilled at the widest part of the holes which has not been a problem)

the mod is very handy for quickly swapping between activities and certainly makes a difference between the different settings we only use it to surf with but its been done for over 5 years now and haven’t had a problem with it. We tried it but dont seem to use the most aggressive set of holes 

 

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jfw432
8 hours ago, BEN307 said:

we had more welded on the back of our manual wedge bracket of our 05 vlx so we could drill two more sets of holes(there is little to no meat between the holes drilled at the widest part of the holes which has not been a problem)

the mod is very handy for quickly swapping between activities and certainly makes a difference between the different settings we only use it to surf with but its been done for over 5 years now and haven’t had a problem with it. We tried it but dont seem to use the most aggressive set of holes 

 

Do you remember if the bracket is steel or aluminum? 

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anotherrunner83
19 hours ago, blk93jeepzj said:

@anotherrunner83Sounds like you need bow weight...    Wave will probably wash out if you throw the wedge down in that scenario, if you can even get on plane.  

Do you have a MLS bow tank?  

Stern you have 2300lbs without the wedge.  Starting point would be 40(bow)/60(stern) split of weight.  So between the bow and midship you need 1400lbs total to equal the 40%.  Take out the 500 midship and you still need 900 in the bow area.    

Sorry to high jack your thread a bit here...

I do  have the front MLS tank and mid MLS tank both full.  Adding the 400 upfront would put me at 650.  Should I not fill the mid tank and both 900s full?  Maybe go with a bit of list?

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anotherrunner83
15 hours ago, jfw432 said:

We have used a surfgate device when we had the fat sacs but I've never used it with just 2-3 people onboard. I'm not sure there is enough weight at that point for the device be of much help. It's mostly just grabbing chine spray at that point. We have used a surfgate device when we had the fat sacs but I've never used it with just 2-3 people onboard. 

could you modify the gate to get it lower on the side of the boat?  have the "gate" hang below the suction cups a bit?  creating the delayed convergence of the wake has been the best modifier for my setup.  

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blk93jeepzj
1 minute ago, anotherrunner83 said:

Sorry to high jack your thread a bit here...

I do  have the front MLS tank and mid MLS tank both full.  Adding the 400 upfront would put me at 650.  Should I not fill the mid tank and both 900s full?  Maybe go with a bit of list?

Bow is 250 plus 500 midship = 750

Stern (Left 250 + 900 and Right 250 + 900) = 2300

Currently you are about a 25/75 split on weight.  

So if your rear is full and your 60% goal.  Bow needs to be 1400 lbs.  Subtract out the 750 from midship and bow, still need 650 to balance out the rear.  

Or you can drop rear weight to help even out the front.  This is just a starting point and can be adjusted for sure.  We always use the wedge since the wave has no push without it.  

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jfw432
41 minutes ago, anotherrunner83 said:

could you modify the gate to get it lower on the side of the boat?  have the "gate" hang below the suction cups a bit?  creating the delayed convergence of the wake has been the best modifier for my setup.  

Yes I can do that but I always felt that without a big enough wave, it's kind of a moot point. Maybe I could play around with a custom gate setup and see if 3-4 people in the boat would be enough to get us by. The reality for me is that surfing is just one of those end of day activities when everyone is already worn out but doesn't want to go home yet. 

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BEN307
6 hours ago, jfw432 said:

Do you remember if the bracket is steel or aluminum? 

Aluminium 

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anotherrunner83
4 hours ago, jfw432 said:

Yes I can do that but I always felt that without a big enough wave, it's kind of a moot point. Maybe I could play around with a custom gate setup and see if 3-4 people in the boat would be enough to get us by. The reality for me is that surfing is just one of those end of day activities when everyone is already worn out but doesn't want to go home yet. 

it also hurts a lot less when you fall surfing vs any of the other water sports.  i've had some serious wipeouts on a single stick, that's for sure.  you tend to feel some of those for a couple of days

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