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MFknK

The Wedge for Surfing

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MFknK

So I have never been a huge fan of the wedge since the original... Back when I was wakeboarding competively. I always felt like it forced a much harder edge up the wake. 

 

Today, we spent most of the day surfing, moving around 600# of the 1200# of wake ballast bags to get everything dialed in. 

In all scenarios, I felt while the wave got bigger with the wedge deployed, it had much less push than without. 

Do any of you feel the same way? Or am I missing something?

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Eagleboy99

On my RLX the Wedge is a necessity.  Plus sacs and fat  people.

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Chappy
1 hour ago, MFknK said:

In all scenarios, I felt while the wave got bigger with the wedge deployed, it had much less push than without. 

Do any of you feel the same way? Or am I missing something?

You are saying the wave got bigger but had less push?

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MFknK

Exactly what I am saying. 

 

It especially had less push farther back, say any distance where the nose was further than 10’ from the platform.

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vanamp

I had floating wedge and now PW2 and absolutely think it does more harm than good to the surf wave. It just seems to add drag but not really improve the wave and I feel like it really needs wakeboard speeds to do its job.  

I generally watch how high my platform is off the water.  If it drags too much I don't get a good lip in the wave (makes a double lip).  I have deployed the wedge at multiple settings and have seen my platform go higher out of the water than with no wedge.  Lift mode should be the only thing that should cause this so just figured there was just not enough speed for it to bite properly and thats why may gas usuage with wedge was so bad. 

 

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ahopkinsVTX

It could depend on boat and surfing style but I’ve tested wedge and no wedge and could see no difference. You loose your ability to tweak the wave so I run it every time. I have not experienced it loosing push at the back of the wave. Are you guys running lots of rear weight at a slower speed?

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MFknK
Posted (edited)

 

On my A24, I am running 750 pnp bags, 600# wake ballast in the nose, 600# spread around midship under seats. 

Everthing full. 

I have been surfing between 11 and 12 bumping the speed around.

For the record, I am also small on a small board. 5’9” 160 #. 

This the board I have been riding lately in a 4’ 3”. 

 

https://www.ronixwake.com/products/naked-series-potbelly-rocket

 

Edited by MFknK

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saxton15

Last summer, one of my actuators bit the dust.  While I waited to receive the replacement part and take a day off to pull the boat and fix the issue, we started surfing without the use of the wedge.  Frankly, aside from the steepness right off the platform, the wave had more push further back and we ran at a lower RPM.  I'm indifferent at this point, but we tend to leave it stowed more and more.  

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MFknK
2 hours ago, saxton15 said:

Last summer, one of my actuators bit the dust.  While I waited to receive the replacement part and take a day off to pull the boat and fix the issue, we started surfing without the use of the wedge.  Frankly, aside from the steepness right off the platform, the wave had more push further back and we ran at a lower RPM.  I'm indifferent at this point, but we tend to leave it stowed more and more.  

Ok, so its not just me...

Think I am going to experiment withe a little more rear weight in lieu of the wedge and see what I get. 

I have most of the rear 600# of wake ballast in the side seats. I may try to move 200# per side all the way to the back, under the PnP bags to start and see what that does. 

 

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saxton15

Definitely running no wedge had me go back to assess our weight set up.  The wedge fully deployed would bring the bow down.  I'm now running a sack up front (including the stock bow tank) to level things off and extend the wave.  

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Nitrousbird

Hull dependent.  On the SV23, you lose a ton of push without it...night and day difference.  Not much difference in terms of size/shape of wave.

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MakeNWaves

We run everything full with wedge at 3 for goofy.  For regular side, I take a little water out of opposite side and run the wedge at 2.  Crew weight is minimal.  Did a lot of experimenting with the wedge, and found the regular side push improves dramatically with wedge at 2.  Also bow rise is reduced with wedge deployed.

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ahopkinsVTX
19 minutes ago, MakeNWaves said:

We run everything full with wedge at 3 for goofy.  For regular side, I take a little water out of opposite side and run the wedge at 2.  Crew weight is minimal.  Did a lot of experimenting with the wedge, and found the regular side push improves dramatically with wedge at 2.  Also bow rise is reduced with wedge deployed.

Are you counting wedge position from lift or vert? Makes perfect sense from vert, not so much from lift lol

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eubanks

Yeah, my experience is bow is always higher with the wedge deployed.  That's literally the point of the wedge itself...force the back of the boat to sit deeper in the water.

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MakeNWaves

PW2 shows it as 1 being completely down to 6 being uppermost before stow.  So a 2 would be, 2 clicks from the bottom, and so forth.

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Chappy
On 4/28/2019 at 8:15 PM, MFknK said:

Exactly what I am saying. 

 

It especially had less push farther back, say any distance where the nose was further than 10’ from the platform.

I have never experienced this, in fact I can barely stay in the wave without the use of the wedge on both my 08 VLX and 19 24 MXZ. IMO the wedge is a must and the one of the primary reasons I stick with Malibu.

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vanamp
1 hour ago, Chappy said:

I have never experienced this, in fact I can barely stay in the wave without the use of the wedge on both my 08 VLX and 19 24 MXZ. IMO the wedge is a must and the one of the primary reasons I stick with Malibu.

Are/were you running really light pnp?  Wedge or no wedge I have never had issues surfing but I have always been pretty loaded up.  Maybe wedge does not work as well when the boat is already pretty heavy?

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MFknK
10 minutes ago, vanamp said:

Are/were you running really light pnp?  Wedge or no wedge I have never had issues surfing but I have always been pretty loaded up.  Maybe wedge does not work as well when the boat is already pretty heavy?

I was wondering this as well. 

I have always ridden or surf pretty heavy since before the wedge came about. 

I am not about to drop weight to make the wedge work better. But, would be interested to know if thats the case.

Hopefully I will be able to get on the water next week and move some weight back to see what happens.

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Raimie

I can barely tell the difference on my '18 T22 with the wedge up or down. I tested it last summer based on a thread here.... I stowed it a couple times during multiple friends sets and they did not notice a difference or say anything about the wave lacking push or shrinking in size with it stowed.

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ahopkinsVTX
39 minutes ago, MFknK said:

I was wondering this as well. 

I have always ridden or surf pretty heavy since before the wedge came about. 

I am not about to drop weight to make the wedge work better. But, would be interested to know if thats the case.

Hopefully I will be able to get on the water next week and move some weight back to see what happens.

Why? Just out of principle? It’s becoming more widely known that more weight is not the answer in the new surf boats. In the older boat, and first generation surf gate boats? Yes it definitely helped. Malibu has done a lot work dialing in these hulls to work jointly with SG, the wedge, factory ballast and recommended plug n play bags. If you are running way over that your are most likely hindering your setup. People on here have tested it. 

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vanamp
1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Why? Just out of principle? It’s becoming more widely known that more weight is not the answer in the new surf boats. In the older boat, and first generation surf gate boats? Yes it definitely helped. Malibu has done a lot work dialing in these hulls to work jointly with SG, the wedge, factory ballast and recommended plug n play bags. If you are running way over that your are most likely hindering your setup. People on here have tested it. 

I've surfed the stock setup of my boat and it was not great.  Do they dial them in full of people? Maybe only 3 people all in the bow? With all the variables I'd guess they are just getting us close and dialing in is up to us.  

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MFknK
2 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Why? Just out of principle? It’s becoming more widely known that more weight is not the answer in the new surf boats. In the older boat, and first generation surf gate boats? Yes it definitely helped. Malibu has done a lot work dialing in these hulls to work jointly with SG, the wedge, factory ballast and recommended plug n play bags. If you are running way over that your are most likely hindering your setup. People on here have tested it. 

Not out of principle. I want to make the best wave/wake I can. 

I can say for certain that I am not hindering my setup, for me. Only dialing it in. After surfing with stock plus plug and play and wedge, then surfing with #1200 of additional ballast, a full crew and no wedge, I found a better wave without the wedge. 

 

While I would agree that Malibu has done a ton of R&D, I am not convinced they are selling what makes the best wave. 

For example, I read a lot about surfgates being submerged and it ruining the wave. Why wouldn’t normal trim tabs be better? Maybe they would be, but then Malibu wouldn’t be selling what nobody else has. This can apply to the wedge also.

Does surf gate work, sure. Is it better than a trim tab? I do not know. But, I like facts when trying to dissect these questions.

Two identical  boats would have to be outfitted with same same setup of ballast, one with trim tabs, one with surfgate. Being that summer is just getting here, its doubtful I will pull the trigger on switching to trim tabs on my boat until winter. 

The wedge is easier than that, because we can stow or deploy it, though I am not entirely sure that it doesn’t have an effect on the wave when stowed. 

 

This all of course in my opinion. But it all comes down to marketing. If Malibu can sell more boats by selling something only they have, I wouldn’t blame them for a second for going that route. But, in my mind, it doesn’t mean we are getting the best option for ideal wave creation. 

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Tjards
14 minutes ago, MFknK said:

Not out of principle. I want to make the best wave/wake I can. 

I can say for certain that I am not hindering my setup, for me. Only dialing it in. After surfing with stock plus plug and play and wedge, then surfing with #1200 of additional ballast, a full crew and no wedge, I found a better wave without the wedge. 

 

While I would agree that Malibu has done a ton of R&D, I am not convinced they are selling what makes the best wave. 

For example, I read a lot about surfgates being submerged and it ruining the wave. Why wouldn’t normal trim tabs be better? Maybe they would be, but then Malibu wouldn’t be selling what nobody else has. This can apply to the wedge also.

Does surf gate work, sure. Is it better than a trim tab? I do not know. But, I like facts when trying to dissect these questions.

Two identical  boats would have to be outfitted with same same setup of ballast, one with trim tabs, one with surfgate. Being that summer is just getting here, its doubtful I will pull the trigger on switching to trim tabs on my boat until winter. 

The wedge is easier than that, because we can stow or deploy it, though I am not entirely sure that it doesn’t have an effect on the wave when stowed. 

 

This all of course in my opinion. But it all comes down to marketing. If Malibu can sell more boats by selling something only they have, I wouldn’t blame them for a second for going that route. But, in my mind, it doesn’t mean we are getting the best option for ideal wave creation. 

I think with surfgate its the idea of a consistent wave everytime. On any boat I have ever been on with trim tabs it seemed much more inconsistent. For example on a trim tab boat I have my perfect wave dialed at one point with crew, ballast, etc and then next time out I use exact same settings but get a much different experience and wave. That is just my experience with trim tabs and a broad range of my customers that trade their surf tab boats in for a surf gate boat. 

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ahopkinsVTX
6 hours ago, vanamp said:

I've surfed the stock setup of my boat and it was not great.  Do they dial them in full of people? Maybe only 3 people all in the bow? With all the variables I'd guess they are just getting us close and dialing in is up to us.  

That is honestly shocking to me, I’ve surfed the T22 with stock ballast - including the bow bag and 550 plug n play bags and the wake is phenomenal. Two people in the boat. 

5 hours ago, MFknK said:

Not out of principle. I want to make the best wave/wake I can. 

I can say for certain that I am not hindering my setup, for me. Only dialing it in. After surfing with stock plus plug and play and wedge, then surfing with #1200 of additional ballast, a full crew and no wedge, I found a better wave without the wedge. 

 

While I would agree that Malibu has done a ton of R&D, I am not convinced they are selling what makes the best wave. 

For example, I read a lot about surfgates being submerged and it ruining the wave. Why wouldn’t normal trim tabs be better? Maybe they would be, but then Malibu wouldn’t be selling what nobody else has. This can apply to the wedge also.

Does surf gate work, sure. Is it better than a trim tab? I do not know. But, I like facts when trying to dissect these questions.

Two identical  boats would have to be outfitted with same same setup of ballast, one with trim tabs, one with surfgate. Being that summer is just getting here, its doubtful I will pull the trigger on switching to trim tabs on my boat until winter. 

The wedge is easier than that, because we can stow or deploy it, though I am not entirely sure that it doesn’t have an effect on the wave when stowed. 

 

This all of course in my opinion. But it all comes down to marketing. If Malibu can sell more boats by selling something only they have, I wouldn’t blame them for a second for going that route. But, in my mind, it doesn’t mean we are getting the best option for ideal wave creation. 

Malibu was first to the market with a surf system that truly worked and that you could keep the boat weighted level. Do we all tweak, yes. I run 2-300 extra is the bow. But nothing crazy. I can assure you that the wedge makes a significant difference when shaping the wave for different people on our boat, and has on every boat I’ve been on. I drive events for our dealer so I’ve spent a lot of time in almost every model.

The posts you see about the gates being submerged is direct result of people running way too much rear weight or way too much weight overall? Would tabs be better? Idk the only company I’ve seen really get it right is centurion and it’s way more complicated to setup. But it does produce a phenomenal wave. Although the boats are way bigger, more ballast and deep V hull so you are comparing Apple and oranges imo. 

Im not trying to discourage anyone from trying new things but just understand there is side effects from every change. If I upgrade my truck engine to produce way more power but keep the factory tires on, I’m not going to get a whole lot of traction.  

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Ronnie

The Wedge makes the most tunable wave out there. I want a bigger wave than my wife does, all I have to do is tweak the wedge with a couple of taps on the Sport Knob and we're set for the wave we each like. When you can reshape the wave and still have a ton of push with just a slight adjustment and also still run the boat level for ease of driving, why would you take that out of the equation?

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