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Made4water

2019 T23 issues

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Made4water

I have had a 2019 t23 for about 3 months and it is a beautiful boat. However I have tried everything to get this boat to surf with no luck. I have lead, plug and play for front and rear and spare sacks. I have tried everything under the sun in 12 hours of use with no success. Has anyone else used a 2019 t23 for surfing? I hear nothing but good things about the 18 model but I know this is a new design. Prior to this boat I had an 2012 a22 And no issues surfing this boat...

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Suggy

Post more specs and everyone here will be able to help you. PnP bag size, how much lead weight and where, Power Wedge or manual, speed, etc?

However, that boat should be a phenomenal surf boat. I'd just fill all factory tanks (front bag, center & rear hard tanks, and the recommended 550# PnP in the rear lockers), surf gate deployed, wedge down and 10.6-11mph and that should be a great start.

@agarabaghi you had a 2018 T23 correct? Maybe you could be of insight.

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dcarl

Somethings not right that's an awesome surf boat.  Didn't your dealer take you out in it? 

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MakeNWaves

Make sure surfgate is deployed.  Sometimes they can be touchy with deployment over/under certain speed.  With ballast full, no surfgate would be the only reason you don’t have a surfable wave.

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Eagleboy99
2 hours ago, dcarl said:

Somethings not right that's an awesome surf boat.  Didn't your dealer take you out in it? 

NSS.  We surf our Response.  Get thee to yer dealer!

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vanamp

Surfgate is the easiest system available to get surfing with.  If you don't have a surfable wave my guess either the gate is not deploying or somethimg with the wedge (maybe in lift mode?).

Get a hold of your dealer and maybe do a little social media spying on the people that work at your dealership and specifically ask for help from the one that has a lot of good surf photos and videos.  I once had a dealer surf demo (centurion) done by a wakeboarder and they could not get a good wave on a boat I know was capable of an awesome wave. 

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Made4water

Surf gate and wedge are deployed no issues there. I just had the dealer install the new wedge software. The wave is a massive rolling wave that has no push or no lip on wedge 1-6.

My setup is as follows:

600# of lead that I move around  to help shape the wave.

plug and play rears are 1100#. But I have tried half full, full, and 3/4 full

plug and play front is the custom bag from wakemakers. Think it is a 525.

I have 2 625# bags that have been shuffled around the boat to try every position possible. 

I have tried empty and full of all the above sacks combo with no luck. Dealer does not know what to do as of yet but they have reached out to axis. Yes I understand the 2018 T23 is a legit surf boat but the hull is new for 2019. I was just trying to see if anyone else has heard of this issue. Maybe I got a lemon?

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ahopkinsVTX

What speed are you running?

Are the rears 1100 total or 1100 each? Malibu recommends 550's or 750's so if it is 1100 total that's perfect, but if they are 1100 each I personally feel that running them full is way too much rear weight and if you are going to do that all of your lead probably needs to be in the bow. Too much rear weight can sink the gates too low and the wave will hinder.

Could be a hull lemon, but I would be surprised to hear that. The hull did change from 18-19 but the biggest changes are added freeboard and going to the two piece hull instead of three piece. I am not aware of a running surface change. Not that say there wasn't one though. Running a surf gate calibration wouldn't hurt. If the gate isn't extended all the way it will hinder the wave.

Are you on a river or a lake? If you are on a river you should be using the paddle wheel for speed control. On a lake you should be using GPS. We ran into a weird issue with a T22 last year that we accidentally had the paddle wheel set for speed control and the wave would form to a degree but it was mush and sucked. As soon as we changed it to GPS the boat held speed and the wave was great again.

If I were you I'd head back out, fill the front, center, rears full. Assuming the rear bags are 1100 total, fill those full too. If they are 1100's each, I'd fill them 50-75%. Set the speed in GPS at 10.8 and PW3 at 2 or 3 from lift. That should give you a great starting point. Then you can tweak it with your lead, wedge setting, and speed. 

A video or even pictures would help as well.

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Txstoj

Only picture I could find on my phone.  2017 T23, everything filled until water comes out all overflows including 550's in rear, floating wedge down.  Speed between  10.5 and 11.

IMG_0111.JPG

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Made4water
6 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

What speed are you running?

Are the rears 1100 total or 1100 each? Malibu recommends 550's or 750's so if it is 1100 total that's perfect, but if they are 1100 each I personally feel that running them full is way too much rear weight and if you are going to do that all of your lead probably needs to be in the bow. Too much rear weight can sink the gates too low and the wave will hinder.

Could be a hull lemon, but I would be surprised to hear that. The hull did change from 18-19 but the biggest changes are added freeboard and going to the two piece hull instead of three piece. I am not aware of a running surface change. Not that say there wasn't one though. Running a surf gate calibration wouldn't hurt. If the gate isn't extended all the way it will hinder the wave.

Are you on a river or a lake? If you are on a river you should be using the paddle wheel for speed control. On a lake you should be using GPS. We ran into a weird issue with a T22 last year that we accidentally had the paddle wheel set for speed control and the wave would form to a degree but it was mush and sucked. As soon as we changed it to GPS the boat held speed and the wave was great again.

If I were you I'd head back out, fill the front, center, rears full. Assuming the rear bags are 1100 total, fill those full too. If they are 1100's each, I'd fill them 50-75%. Set the speed in GPS at 10.8 and PW3 at 2 or 3 from lift. That should give you a great starting point. Then you can tweak it with your lead, wedge setting, and speed. 

A video or even pictures would help as well.

Ya we tried paddle wheel and both gps speed. Even used a speed app to confirm. I have tried in both open lake and river (where I typically ride). Probably the most trial and error I have done is rear sacks 50% filled (each are 1100). All other stock ballast full and front plug and play full. Me and my wife and shuffling lead constantly. Adjusting speed between 10.6-11.2 and keeping wedge between 2-4. I will try and get out this week and shoot a video or pictures. Thanks for the help.

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AussieSkier
Posted (edited)

really shallow water will effect the surf wave also, make it almost non existant.

Edited by AussieSkier
existent

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vanamp

With all that weight I would start without using the wedge (I don't surf with wedge at all).  When surfing make sure the deployed surfgate is not too far underwater and make sure the swim platform is as close to water as possible but not dragging in the water affecting wave shape.   

 

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Raimie

If your water depth is greater than 12', call your dealer and get them out there to help you out. If less than 12'...that is your problem. Additionally, I would never fill those 1100s. You want about 750-800lbs in each reach plug-n-play bag along with the hard tank filled.

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Made4water
4 hours ago, vanamp said:

With all that weight I would start without using the wedge (I don't surf with wedge at all).  When surfing make sure the deployed surfgate is not too far underwater and make sure the swim platform is as close to water as possible but not dragging in the water affecting wave shape.   

 

Ya we tried surfing without wedge with no success. I tried with a lot of weight and with minimal weight and everywhere in between. No actual surf wave just a large rolling wave. Never seen anything like it. 

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ahopkinsVTX

As others have asked, what is your water depth?

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Sparky450
On 4/13/2019 at 10:37 AM, Made4water said:

Prior to this boat I had an 2012 a22 And no issues surfing this boat...

Are you surfing the same place?

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gregtay
On 4/13/2019 at 10:37 AM, Made4water said:

I have had a 2019 t23 for about 3 months and it is a beautiful boat. However I have tried everything to get this boat to surf with no luck. I have lead, plug and play for front and rear and spare sacks. I have tried everything under the sun in 12 hours of use with no success. Has anyone else used a 2019 t23 for surfing? I hear nothing but good things about the 18 model but I know this is a new design. Prior to this boat I had an 2012 a22 And no issues surfing this boat...

Can you provide a little more info on "wave not surfable"?  When you say "massive rolling wave" what do you mean?... is it washed out behind the boat? Too steep and short? Too long?   If there is no lip or even resemblance of white wash on the top of the wave (where the clean face meets the top of the wave and it eventually curls) which is what I think you mean by a "large rolling wave with no lip" then it sounds like you have a wave with convergance delayed too far, the surf side of the wave is winning so much so that the non-surf side never has a chance to converge and create a surfable wave.    This is easily creatable if you were fill only the surf side surf bag and deployed Surfgate (basically listing the boat AND using surfgate... both delay convergance and in this case they delay it too much and the surf side wave just full out wins all the way across the back of the boat.   If that is what is going on I would try emptying the surf side sack a bit to see if that helps bring convergance back to where it should be.  Could also be that Surfgate is deployed at the wrong angle causing too much delay but I am not sure if SG really has enough push to cause this alone (I know with GSA on my 2008 I could get close to too much convergance delay if I turned the dial and deeply deploy the tab (I always ran it with that only down a few degrees.)  

Let's list the possible causes (why not, right?)

1) Someone mentioned a lemon hull, guessing that would only be caused by a warped mold. unlikely.. but possible

2) surfgates deploying at the wrong angle?

3) Wedge at the wrong angle? (needs calibrated?) Doesn't explain overly delayed convergance if that is what is going on. If it was too short and washed out then maybe

4) Tanks not actually filling all the way (sounds like you already checked this.)

5) Speedo error (also sounds like you already checked this.)

6) Too much weight or not balanced (sounds like you already tried just about everything)

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COOP
14 hours ago, Made4water said:

Ya we tried paddle wheel and both gps speed. Even used a speed app to confirm. I have tried in both open lake and river (where I typically ride). Probably the most trial and error I have done is rear sacks 50% filled (each are 1100). All other stock ballast full and front plug and play full. Me and my wife and shuffling lead constantly. Adjusting speed between 10.6-11.2 and keeping wedge between 2-4. I will try and get out this week and shoot a video or pictures. Thanks for the help.

You're in sketchy territory if each rear sac is 1100. Malibu probably wont even help if they find out you're running bags that big, in fact, I wouldnt even mention it. 

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Made4water
1 hour ago, Sparky450 said:

Are you surfing the same place?

Yes I am surfing the same place as my previous boat. Water depth varies 11-18’ deep. 

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Made4water
41 minutes ago, COOP said:

You're in sketchy territory if each rear sac is 1100. Malibu probably wont even help if they find out you're running bags that big, in fact, I wouldnt even mention it. 

Thanks for the heads up. 

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Made4water
1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

As others have asked, what is your water depth?

Typically 11-18’. It’s not the depth. A lot of boats surf in the same area. We also tried it on a lake that was 30’ deep. 

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Suggy

I honestly think you have too much weight. Start with no extra ballast or lead or anything and just the "stock" wave. Everything full: bow PnP bag (~550), center hard tank, rear hard tank & 50% of your rear PnP (550# each). PW3 around 2-3, surf gate deployed & 10.6 mph. That is "stock" set up and if you can't get a wave with that then something I think is wrong. I think you have too much weight and you're playing around with it too much to start. Slowly add more weight once you find a great stock wave.

Also, have you VISUALLY watched/checked the surf gate is deployed? I'd have someone on the platform while you drive for 30 seconds, make sure the proper gate is deployed and staying deployed. If an actuator is bad, it might deploy at first but once under speed slowly contract in & this would cause what you're seeing.

1100lb fat sacs is A LOT for those rear lockers, and if you ever fill them full you will want one of your 625# sacs up front in the bow no doubt.

POST PICTURES as well. That will help us get a great idea of what you're seeing.

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Made4water
1 hour ago, gregtay said:

Can you provide a little more info on "wave not surfable"?  When you say "massive rolling wave" what do you mean?... is it washed out behind the boat? Too steep and short? Too long?   If there is no lip or even resemblance of white wash on the top of the wave (where the clean face meets the top of the wave and it eventually curls) which is what I think you mean by a "large rolling wave with no lip" then it sounds like you have a wave with convergance delayed too far, the surf side of the wave is winning so much so that the non-surf side never has a chance to converge and create a surfable wave.    This is easily creatable if you were fill only the surf side surf bag and deployed Surfgate (basically listing the boat AND using surfgate... both delay convergance and in this case they delay it too much and the surf side wave just full out wins all the way across the back of the boat.   If that is what is going on I would try emptying the surf side sack a bit to see if that helps bring convergance back to where it should be.  Could also be that Surfgate is deployed at the wrong angle causing too much delay but I am not sure if SG really has enough push to cause this alone (I know with GSA on my 2008 I could get close to too much convergance delay if I turned the dial and deeply deploy the tab (I always ran it with that only down a few degrees.)  

Let's list the possible causes (why not, right?)

1) Someone mentioned a lemon hull, guessing that would only be caused by a warped mold. unlikely.. but possible

2) surfgates deploying at the wrong angle?

3) Wedge at the wrong angle? (needs calibrated?) Doesn't explain overly delayed convergance if that is what is going on. If it was too short and washed out then maybe

4) Tanks not actually filling all the way (sounds like you already checked this.)

5) Speedo error (also sounds like you already checked this.)

6) Too much weight or not balanced (sounds like you already tried just about everything)

The wave is not washed out, it is a big rolling wave with no white water. i was the one who mentioned the lemon hull due to the fact i cant get a wave out of this boat. Surfgate is good but we compared to another boat with surf gate and didnt see any angle difference. Wedge was updated with new software and recalibrated. We have tried balanced and unbalanced weight to try and get a wave but my understanding is that you are supposed to evenly weight the boat with surfgate. We tried paddle wheel, gps and phone app for speed. 

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wilster

if you have too much weight in the rear, you'll basically swamp the surf gate--you'll have them below the water line and it won't produce a wave. I'd try it in deeper water and make sure no water is flowing over the top of the surfgate when you're at surf speed, if so, you have too much weight.   

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boardjnky4

I think it's safe to say we need some pictures of what's going on.

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