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No factory PNP on 2018 Axis T22.


Mattonspeclake

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ahopkins22LSV
15 hours ago, IndyFerg said:

Yeah I didn’t know it was separate either until I started poking around up front and saw none of the excess tubing that should have been there. Hit the fill switch for the bow and didn’t hear any pumps running. Bummer. 

I’m not feeling a whole reversible pump install and all that jazz so will probably just go the center tank piggyback route and see how it goes. If it sucks I can always add the separate pump setup later. 

 

10 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

its one option, at least i think it was in my ‘14, it was about $375 bucks for the whole plumbing set up( there was no front bag included, nor obviously rear bags) , my buy sheet had it as one option, but i never saw my build sheet so i could be wrong

I confirmed that it is a combo option. If you have rear plug n play you should have the bow pump and plumbing. Unless the rear plumbing was added after the fact. Maybe there is a fuse that is off or something that isn’t turning the pump on? How many pumps do you have when you look in the center bulge access hole?

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4 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

FWIW, my bow PNP came "looped" and I had to cut hoses and install the quick disconnect fittings on the hoses to make it work.  Given @ahopkinsVTX's confirmation of combo, is it possible that you don't know what you are looking at?

Hm, I’ll have to double check and go count pumps in the center pie hole next time I’m at the boat (not stored at home currently). The only looped hose I saw was under the helm with what looked like a vent, but nowhere near the length of hose I’ve seen in the wakemakers bow bag install video, and no drain hoses that I’ve found anywhere either. 


Interestingly there is no PnP called out at all on the build sheet, even though the fittings are def. there in the rear. 

Added some pics.  The first one is where you can clearly see the PnP in the rear.

The next two are a view of the junk under the helm.  You can see two main ballast hoses:  a looped hose with what looks like a vent on the loop, and what I'm guessing the the drain hose, both for the center tank I'd imagine.  No hoses anywhere else forward of here, and nowhere where there seems to be a big run of hose hiding out.

Any other ideas of where I should look? 

Rear PnP.png

Front Under Helm.png

Front Loop.JPG

Edited by IndyFerg
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@IndyFerg 

did you look under cushions in the bow for same black plumbing with no fittings, should be 3 houses joined together 

i think there is only one vent loop (3rd picture) as i believe center tank and front pnp  share the vent loop and thru hull, i don't have a walk thru so both of my drains come from same area from front of center tank area from the  bilge cover area  

but I guess there should be two drain hoses under helm and your inly showing one, is it possible there is another one snaking from bow area to under helm higher to thru hull

and do you have 3 large thru hulls and one small bilge thru hull on sidebof helm,  i bet if you do you have front pnp

Edited by granddaddy55
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7 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

@IndyFerg 

did you look under cushions in the bow for same black plumbing with no fittings, should be 3 houses joined together 

i think there is only one vent loop (3rd picture) as i believe center tank and front pnp  share the vent loop and thru hull, i don't have a walk thru so both of my drains come from same area from front of center tank area from the  bilge cover area  

but I guess there should be two drain hoses under helm and your inly showing one, is it possible there is another one snaking from bow area to under helm higher to thru hull

and do you have 3 large thru hulls and one small bilge thru hull on sidebof helm,  i bet if you do you have front pnp

Super helpful things to know to look for. I looked around under the cushions and didn’t see any other hoses, but I’m going to want to go back to where it’s stored and double check for all the stuff you mention above. Might be a few days before I can get out there. 

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Thinking about it a little more, I think that from the factory I had a fill hose that went to a wye and the drain and vent hoses were connected to either side of the wye. So that if someone turned on the fill pump it should pretty quickly start venting from the side of the boat. There were definitely not any quick connects. 
 

again that’s on a 2016 so things may have changed. 

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  • 3 months later...

Alright, reviving this one...after doing some research, thinking, etc. I think I'm going to go the route of essentially trying to mimic what I believe to be close to the factory setup for bow ballast in a newer Axis.  So, thinking the following:

  • Separate hi-flo aerator fill and drain pumps. 
  • I'll run the fill off of the center drain hole (I never really use it), and Y the drain hose into the drain hose from the center tank.  I would install the drain pump up under the helm
  • Wire the pumps up to the existing switch on the dash for bow bag that isn't being used
  • Y the vent/overflow line into the existing vent/overflow form the center tank

Going this route provides the following benefits:

  • No new holes drilled in the hull
  • No fancy wiring (I hope) that would be required by installing a reversible pump - according to wakemakers a reversible would draw too much and I wouldn't be able to use the existing dash switch
  • Cheap but functional

I really just want to throw this out to the group to make sure my thinking is correct before I put the wakemakers order in.  I also am not quite sure on the wiring.  I reached out to Axis directly with that question, but any experience on here would be awesome.

What do you all think?

Edited by IndyFerg
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I'd go reversible for the following reasons:

-The drain and fill is the same hole. 

- You only have to wire and mount 1 pump

You can use a relay if you think it is too much draw

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18 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

You can use a relay if you think it is too much draw

Interested to know more about the relay option.  Also, interested to hear why doing the wiring for a relay is easier than using the existing switch on the dash and wiring 2 pumps.

I had started by going down the reversible route as it involved less plumbing and mounting and I loved the simplicity, but according to Wakemakers wasn't an option with the factory dash switch, so I ruled that out.

I am a bit of a moron when it comes to electrical, so bear with any dumb questions :) 

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11 minutes ago, IndyFerg said:

Interested to know more about the relay option.  Also, interested to hear why doing the wiring for a relay is easier than using the existing switch on the dash and wiring 2 pumps.

I had started by going down the reversible route as it involved less plumbing and mounting and I loved the simplicity, but according to Wakemakers wasn't an option with the factory dash switch, so I ruled that out.

I am a bit of a moron when it comes to electrical, so bear with any dumb questions :) 

I think that the factory switch would need to be re-wired to work, but if the switch is not rated for the current (10A IIRC) you could burn it up. 

I think you'd actually need two relays and it starts to get a little complicated, because you need to get the relays to flip polarity to the pump.  You set up both relays to normally pass ground, and then when energized one or the other flips to passing (+).  Kinda like this:

493327d1363726446-power-window-relays-4-

Plan B would be to just do it the old fashioned way and mount a DPDT carling rocker in your sub's kick panel under the dash for your bow ballast.  

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Just now, shawndoggy said:

Plan B would be to just do it the old fashioned way and mount a DPDT carling rocker in your sub's kick panel under the dash for your bow ballast.  

This is what I did.

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4 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

This is what I did.

me too for supplemental bow bag to run on top of the seats in my 2016 T22 (with reversible and its own dedicated thru-hull).

 

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2a7.jpg

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2a8.jpg

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2bc.jpg

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54 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Plan B would be to just do it the old fashioned way and mount a DPDT carling rocker in your sub's kick panel under the dash for your bow ballast.  

Yeah Plan B def sounds simpler for my elementary wiring talents!

I'll ask it again though, why mount a separate switch when one exists already in my dash?  What's the difference?  I assume it already has power and and fuses and all as well.  I also have several Aux switches in the dash that could be used I'm assuming.  That's the entire point of them being pre-installed right?

Forgive me if there's some obvious electrical reason that I can't go this route...

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4 minutes ago, IndyFerg said:

Yeah Plan B def sounds simpler for my elementary wiring talents!

I'll ask it again though, why mount a separate switch when one exists already in my dash?  What's the difference?  I assume it already has power and and fuses and all as well.  I also have several Aux switches in the dash that could be used I'm assuming.  That's the entire point of them being pre-installed right?

Forgive me if there's some obvious electrical reason that I can't go this route...

The switch in the dash could work if it's rated to pass 10A.  If it's not rated for 10A, then you need to go the relay route depicted above, after rewiring the switch to reverse polarity from fill to drain.

If the switch in the dash is rated for 10A, is the wiring to and from the switch rated for 10A?  If not you'd need to rewire.

If the switch and the wiring are rated for 10A, is the breaker?  if not, you'd need to replace the breaker.

Assuming you can get comfort on all of those questions, then you'd still need to rewire your switch.

Your switch is currently going to be wired like this: wakemakers-aerator-pump-wiring-guide.png

 

You want your swith to be wired like this: wakemakers-jabsco-ballast-puppy-wiring-g

 

^^^^ of course those diagrams are depicting carling DPDT switch bodies, but you get the idea... you need the switch to flip polarity when hooked up in reverse.

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  • 1 month later...

I wanted to follow up and close the loop on how I ended up doing the bow install.  Hopefully someone else tackling this finds it helpful...

After a lot of emailing, calling, waiting, and nothing both from Axis and my dealer all around how to tie the wiring into the existing dash switch, I decided to just go with the reversible pump setup through Wakemakers (Wakemakers were super responsive BTW).

Glad I did, the install was pretty darn easy, and looked something like:

  • Install the intake through the existing center drain plug thru-hull (3/4" brass nipple fitting, bronze ball valve, 3/4" thread by 1" hose barb 90 degree elbow)
  • Run the ballast hose underneath the floor through to under the helm station, following the other ballast hoses already making that run.  Easiest to start in the helm and push the hose back to the pie hole.
  • I mounted the pump within the help console on the floor...seemed like the most solid place that still allows for easy maintenance and plenty of room around it to do all the hose stuff
  • Ran the outbound hose up to the stbd. side port on the bag, capped off all the other bag openings.  Total hose length I bought was 13' and I had about 1' leftover.  One thing you could do to make the setup a little better would be to run two hoses off of either end of the bow bag and Y them in before the pump so it drains more effectively, but that's certainly a nice to have and not required.
  • I used the simple pre-fabbed wiring harness and connections on the pump that Wakemakers has...it made it so easy to wire up.  Wires ran right through the stbd. side of the helm, through the cutout, and right around on top of the heater unit on the backside of the helm.  The 10ft. lengths of wiring was more than enough.
  • For now, I'm not going to mount the switch on the dash.  I like the clean OEM look and I can just tuck the rocker switch up under the helm - there is a gap between the removable panel and the side of the help station.  It keeps it out of the way but I can still access it really easily when it's time to fill/drain
  • Total time was about ~3-4 hrs, going slow and methodical and not having to re-do anything.

The only thing left to do is run the vent/overflow line off the front of the bag, which I'll T into the vent/overflow line from the center tank that goes through the hull under the helm as well, but the reversible pump sucks the bag pretty dry and is loud enough that I don't leave it running too long so I'm in no rush to do this.  Overall, takes a few minutes to fill and drain the bag, really no longer than the center tank, if that even.

Went out this morning surfing with my crew for the first time, and the wave is night and day...came out so well.  2 people in the boat, ran all ballast full, with the manual wedge deployed, and 10.5mph and it had length, height, and push.  I'm super happy with the install and the wave.

So anyways, wanted to leave some details for anyone else that might be in the same boat as I was (ha).  Some pics below.

 

IMG_1128.JPG

IMG_1126.JPG

IMG_1127.JPG

IMG_1129.jpg

IMG_1130.jpg

IMG_1160.PNG

Edited by IndyFerg
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