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ronixride

Michigan HB 4362 - limited vessel operating hours

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ronixride
Posted (edited)

Saw this shared elsewhere, allegedly it is being rewritten.  Something to keep an eye on, especially those of us that ski early. 

SEC. 30603. OPERATION OF A VESSEL ON A PUBLIC INLAND LAKE IS LIMITED TO BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8 A.M. AND SUNSET, UNLESS FURTHER LIMITED BY SPECIAL RULES PROMULGATED BY LOCAL ORDINANCE RECOMMENDED BY THE DEPARTMENT UNDER SECTION 80110.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/House/pdf/2019-HIB-4362.pdf

Edited by ronixride

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tvano

that is absolutely insane!

thanks for sharing.

i've written my state representation, others from the great state of MI should consider it, too!

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minnmarker
1 hour ago, ronixride said:

Saw this shared elsewhere, allegedly it is being rewritten.  Something to keep an eye on, especially those of us that ski early. 

SEC. 30603. OPERATION OF A VESSEL ON A PUBLIC INLAND LAKE IS LIMITED TO BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8 A.M. AND SUNSET, UNLESS FURTHER LIMITED BY SPECIAL RULES PROMULGATED BY LOCAL ORDINANCE RECOMMENDED BY THE DEPARTMENT UNDER SECTION 80110.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/House/pdf/2019-HIB-4362.pdf

Or boat back from the restaurant, friend's cabin, fireworks, etc...

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Ryan1776
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, tvano said:

that is absolutely insane!

thanks for sharing.

i've written my state representation, others from the great state of MI should consider it, too!

Where did you find the contact info?

Good luck enforcing this. The OC (oakland country) lake cops are gone by dusk anyway. IF you can even find them. They're NEVER on my lake. They spend their days on the high event lakes like Cass and probably Lake Orion. 

Regardless....I'm all about fighting it. 

Edited by Ryan1776

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roeboat

The lake I'm on has a similar rule to this. No wake between 7:30 pm and 11:30 am. Kinda sucks for skiing because the wind always seems to kick up at 11:30.

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Ryan1776
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, roeboat said:

The lake I'm on has a similar rule to this. No wake between 7:30 pm and 11:30 am. Kinda sucks for skiing because the wind always seems to kick up at 11:30.

No wake is one thing.....and that should capture what I feel they're trying to accomplish. Not being able to hang out in the middle of the lake with some close friends past 9:30pm is draconian.

I do agree, those laws for no wake are a bit strict as well. 

Edited by Ryan1776

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Raimie
30 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

Where did you find the contact info?

Good luck enforcing this. The OC (oakland country) lake cops are gone by dusk anyway. IF you can even find them. They're NEVER on my lake. They spend their days on the high event lakes like Cass and probably Lake Orion. 

Regardless....I'm all about fighting it. 

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

 

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Raimie
6 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

No wake is one thing.....and that should capture what I feel they're trying to accomplish. Not being able to hang out in the middle of the lake with some close friends past 9:30pm is draconian.

I do agree, those laws for no wake are a bit strict as well. 

It's only acceptable on a private lake with an association that makes these rules. To make it a blanket enforceable law for all public inland lakes is absolutely the wrong thing to do for MI.

The bill is in the very early stages, but please contact your reps and squash this thing before it goes anywhere.

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Ryan1776
Posted (edited)

So I wrote this, and looking for the statute or law or something about not creating a wake between dusk till dawn.... I was unable to find it? Is that made up in my head?! I've always followed that, but maybe it's just what my dad taught me. 

Good afternoon Congresswomen Stevens. 
I'm writing you today concerning the HOUSE BILL No. 4362. 
It states in part, "SEC. 30603. OPERATION OF A VESSEL ON A PUBLIC INLAND LAKE IS
LIMITED TO BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8 A.M. AND SUNSET."
I'm sure the intent of this bill is to limit the amount of noise on the lake during these times as to keep the "peace" on the water. 
However, there are already "no-wake from dusk till dawn"  restrictions that afford this. 
Please understand I'm not trying to speak down I just want to assure we all understand each other. 
"No-wake speed" is determined by a speed that allows directional control of the vessel but does not create any wake due to the vessel moving though the water. This can only be attained by the vessel being driven in gear but at idle speed. At this speed boats cannot be heard by bystanders on shore as the exhaust of said boat is underwater thus rendering the noise all but silent. 

This has been a rule for as long as there have been laws for boating and it's a very good law and one that encompasses what this new legislation is trying to attain. 
I have spent over 35 years on and around boats and lakes in Michigan and specifically Oakland County and have abided by the current no wake from dusk till dawn rule for this entire time. I respect the lake, and my fellow homeowners that live on it. Sometimes that includes just sitting on the boat enjoying the company of others. 

Why, just because the sun set, should that be limited? 

 

I made some absolutes in my statements, but I'm OK with it.... 
Am I crazy, can you LEGALLY drive a boat on plane at midnight? LEGALLY! lol 

Edited by Ryan1776

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Woodski

This bill basically sets the current PWC towing a skier regulations to include boats.  Current regulations say one hour before sunrise and one hour after sunset is the window for towing a skier.  So this bill will reduce ski time window behind a boat.

Michigan has quite a few, ski before work addicts and those that get the 6 am set in then head to work.  Hopefully this bill can be defeated specifically since a boat has lights and PWC's do not along with the much better observer seating and ability to have the skier on the boat rather than not having a spot for them.

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tvano

imho:

  • the bill is payback for a campaign donation from some rich land baron that purchased public lakefront but doesn't really care to share.
  • how does it differ from the next bill that will limit use of public highways to daylight hours?

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JasonK

Michigan Reps in my area:

517-373-1795 Julie

517-373-1775 Sarah

517-373-1771 Ronnie

517-373-1792 Rebekah

517-373-1706 Bronna

I called each one yesterday morning. I didn't write down their last names, but got this info off mich.gov

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Ryan1776
7 minutes ago, JasonK said:

Michigan Reps in my area:

517-373-1795 Julie

517-373-1775 Sarah

517-373-1771 Ronnie

517-373-1792 Rebekah

517-373-1706 Bronna

I called each one yesterday morning. I didn't write down their last names, but got this info off mich.gov

Do you actually talk to them or some aid listening to Bieber as they half listen to you?

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minnmarker
35 minutes ago, Ryan1776 said:

I made some absolutes in my statements, but I'm OK with it.... 

Am I crazy, can you LEGALLY drive a boat on plane at midnight? LEGALLY! lol 

You can in Wisconsin and I've never heard of a night time accident on our lake or nearby lakes, so it's not a safety issue for us.  What I have heard is Yahoo teenagers blasting parent's boat stereo late at night (in an area of the lake away from parent's property) - which you can do at idle.  When they were identified (by someone else) that quickly stopped.  Thanks to random dad guy.

The only motor noise issue that has ever popped up was straight exhaust bass boats racing around on the early morning glass.  That was solved by instituting a speed limit (50 mph by the way) and decibel limit (the homeowners association bought the radar gun and decibel meter for the police).  Just the fact that it was known they had the meter scared the fast guys away.

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Ryan1776
29 minutes ago, Woodski said:

This bill basically sets the current PWC towing a skier regulations to include boats.  Current regulations say one hour before sunrise and one hour after sunset is the window for towing a skier.  So this bill will reduce ski time window behind a boat.

Michigan has quite a few, ski before work addicts and those that get the 6 am set in then head to work.  Hopefully this bill can be defeated specifically since a boat has lights and PWC's do not along with the much better observer seating and ability to have the skier on the boat rather than not having a spot for them.

It's more than just skiing. It's being physically on the water after sunset. SEC. 30603. OPERATION OF A VESSEL ON A PUBLIC INLAND LAKE IS LIMITED TO BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8 A.M. AND SUNSET.\

That reads to me, no vessel on the public lake between sunset and 8am. 

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Ryan1776
1 minute ago, minnmarker said:

You can in Wisconsin and I've never heard of a night time accident on our lake or nearby lakes, so it's not a safety issue for us.  What I have heard is Yahoo teenagers blasting parent's boat stereo late at night (in an area of the lake away from parent's property) - which you can do at idle.  When they were identified (by someone else) that quickly stopped.  Thanks to random dad guy.

The only motor noise issue that has ever popped up was straight exhaust bass boats racing around on the early morning glass.  That was solved by instituting a speed limit (50 mph by the way) and decibel limit (the homeowners association bought the radar gun and decibel meter for the police).  Just the fact that it was known they had the meter scared the fast guys away.

I'll be darn. I've just always followed an unwritten rule! Not that that will change. We have a 55mph limit in Michigan already. No dB limit as far as I know. 

 

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minnmarker

Those are local regulations.  They do not apply to Wisconsin in general.

But we did get the "observer" law repealed, for all of Wisconsin, so now you can ski or surf with only the driver in the boat as long as you have a wide angle rear view mirror.  There was a lot of legislator contact to get that done.  By "we" I mean many on this site and other wake sport sites too.  It didn't hurt that in Minnesota you can ski with a mirror and Minnesota has a lower rate of towed sport accidents than Wisconsin did. 

Bottom line, the legislators probably do not boat or own lake front property.  They just listen to constituents and the more numerous/louder get what they want.

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Woodski

For those Michigan residents, might be worth contacting Representative Sheppard and having him review the Wisconsin spotter law as an opportunity for Michigan.  Since he wants us to enjoy our precious lakes, that would help the skiing community.

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Sparky450
2 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

FWIW here is a response that has been floating around on Facebook. Seems to be the guys intent is not what the bill states. He actually wants to lift the restrictions on lakes that have a no wake rule from 7pm to 11:30am. But it’s poorly written and will greatly restrict others.

“As you know, I recently introduced legislation that has caused some concern among the boating and fishing communities.  I would like to clarify my intent for House Bill 4362.

I have observed over the years that many inland lakes have set their own hours, through DNR rules, for activities such as high-speed boating and water skiing.  These activities are prohibited in many lakes from the hours of 6:30pm until 10am the following day.  Many of these rules were adopted in the mid-1960s.  Clearly, these hours do not represent today’s families and their schedules.

I introduced HB 4362 to allow for more time to enjoy on Michigan’s inland lakes—unfortunately, the way the bill was written does the opposite.  Please know that I am in the process of drafting alternative language to more clearly attain my goal of making our state’s waters more accessible to all.

I appreciate your patience as I continue to work on this bill.

Sincerely,

State Representative Jason Sheppard”

If I was in Michigan,  I would be all over this. I would not trust something “floating around on Facebook”. To me that seems like an effort to stall the general public so that the bill gets voted in. 

Keep in mind,  I live in California. They sneak this stuff in all the time out here. Or just sign it into law without a vote. 

 

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bamaboy

I, for one, love paddleboarding early morning.  I'm sick of you skiers messing up my glass.

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inlandlaker

This is so ridiculous.  Hopefully what's been found on facebook is accurate.  However, I'm going to be sending some similar love notes to my reps.  

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roeboat
41 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

I, for one, love paddleboarding early morning.  I'm sick of you skiers messing up my glass.

In this bill the State of Michigan defines a ""Vessel" as "every description of watercraft used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water". So this could include anything on the water, even a paddle board.

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-324-80104 

 

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Sixball
1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

I, for one, love paddleboarding early morning.  I'm sick of you skiers messing up my glass.

:biteme:   :whistle:

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SkiSam
6 hours ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

FWIW here is a response that has been floating around on Facebook. Seems to be the guys intent is not what the bill states. He actually wants to lift the restrictions on lakes that have a no wake rule from 7pm to 11:30am. But it’s poorly written and will greatly restrict others.

“As you know, I recently introduced legislation that has caused some concern among the boating and fishing communities.  I would like to clarify my intent for House Bill 4362.

I have observed over the years that many inland lakes have set their own hours, through DNR rules, for activities such as high-speed boating and water skiing.  These activities are prohibited in many lakes from the hours of 6:30pm until 10am the following day.  Many of these rules were adopted in the mid-1960s.  Clearly, these hours do not represent today’s families and their schedules.

I introduced HB 4362 to allow for more time to enjoy on Michigan’s inland lakes—unfortunately, the way the bill was written does the opposite.  Please know that I am in the process of drafting alternative language to more clearly attain my goal of making our state’s waters more accessible to all.

I appreciate your patience as I continue to work on this bill.

Sincerely,

State Representative Jason Sheppard”

That bill passing would kill off most of the skiing on our lake.
I'd say 70% of the skiing is before 9am, everyone gets a set in before heading to work, unless they're retired.

If what's floating on FB is true, sliding in the Wisconsin spotter bill in some way would be nice. Even the wakesurfers would be on board with it :biggrin:

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