Battery Charger

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Which is pretty safe - but the ACR is still connected to both batteries regardless of the switch position (relay is likely not energized but you have no way to control it)

 

Like this -- put the ACR on different posts of the switch from the leads going to the battery.  When the switch is in the off position all four posts are disconnected from one another.

 

[shawndoggy]

11 minutes ago, MLA said:

Not if the ACR is NOT wired to the batteries. 

hows that possible for him when he isn't running a switch?  I mean yeah, it won't combine if it's in the glovebox of his truck.

Edited March 20, 2019 by shawndoggy

[minnmarker]

25 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

The reason for connecting to the starter battery is that sometimes (like in the spring) it is nice to make sure everything is fully charged or just leave it on the charger/maintainer all winter long.  A smart charger/maintainer needs to have exclusive connection to a single battery for it to work.

My fondness of physical disconnects comes from the offroading world.  I always ran Marine battery switches in the jeeps after watching a couple frenzied attempts at disconnecting smoking batteries with a wrench

OK, full disclosure.  I do trip that breaker between the batteries when I lay the boat up for the winter and put a battery $25 maintainer on the starter battery https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CITK8S/  which gets put on the shelf in the Spring.

I agree, both ways will work, one requires thought and one is a no-brainer.  I prefer not using my brain any more than needed (except for safety) when boating.

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Nope, just a single battery charger. I’m kicking myself on not getting the onboard charger from the factory.

As far as SUPER easy mods go, this is definitely one.  Plus you can do the prosport 20 instead of the weaksauce prosport 12 that the factory sells ya.  It shouldn't take more than an hour to do.

[minnmarker]

39 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

If I were you, I'd pull the ground wire on the ACR and charge one at a time. 

Or wire it the right way with an off-on-combine switch and charge each battery independently while the switch is in the off position.

Too much work.  The proof is in the puddin'.  It works for me and the batteries (which have not been replaced in 5 years) seem to like it too.

I think this thread is becoming much ado about nothing

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Too much work.  The proof is in the puddin'.  It works for me and the batteries (which have not been replaced in 5 years) seem to like it too.

I think this thread is becoming much ado about nothing

I mean my grandpa never wore a seatbelt either.  Doesn't make it the best practice.  If you don't have a big stereo, or you don't run your stereo battery down for long periods at rest, your combined single battery charging regime probably works fine, and the ACR will hopefully protect you against a no-start condition if you do deplete your stereo battery.  It does insure that whatever abuse (if any) you inflict on your stereo bank will be shared by your starting battery.

Edited March 20, 2019 by shawndoggy

[MLA]

2 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

hows that possible for him when he isn't running a switch?  I mean yeah, it won't combine if it's in the glovebox of his truck.

AC relay triggered when the charger is plugged in, interrupting the control ground. 

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, MLA said:

AC relay triggered when the charger is plugged in, interrupting the control ground. 

true.  haha if he's too lazy to add the switch, methinks he'll be too lazy for the relay.

[wakesetterDD]

thanks guys... I forgot to mention... I don't have a switch!  So in that case, I think I probably should disconnect everything. 

[dcarl]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:06 AM, shawndoggy said:

Like this -- put the ACR on different posts of the switch from the leads going to the battery.  When the switch is in the off position all four posts are disconnected from one another.

 

Looking for some clarification here. I have a 2016 VTX with the off 1,2, both switch, dual batteries and I'm adding a 2 bank onboard charger. 

If I connect the charger per the manufactures instructions and I have the switch in off position will the batteries be isolated?

What if I leave my boat in the water with only a cover and want to charge the batteries. According to the Malibu manual if the switch is in the off position the automatic bilge won't work, which is not good. What are my options here? 

How do I know if I have an ACR or not?

How often do you guys use your onboard charges? Is it ok to run them during the week when not in use regardless of the state of the batteries?

Sorry this turned into 4 questions

 

[shawndoggy]

8 minutes ago, dcarl said:

Looking for some clarification here. I have a 2016 VTX with the off 1,2, both switch, dual batteries and I'm adding a 2 bank onboard charger. 

If I connect the charger per the manufactures instructions and I have the switch in off position will the batteries be isolated?

What if I leave my boat in the water with only a cover and want to charge the batteries. According to the Malibu manual if the switch is in the off position the automatic bilge won't work, which is not good. What are my options here? 

How do I know if I have an ACR or not?

How often do you guys use your onboard charges? Is it ok to run them during the week when not in use regardless of the state of the batteries?

Sorry this turned into 4 questions

 

1. Probably.  Assuming your setup is from the factory then off should mean off (or at least not combined).

2. the automatic circuit from bilge pump should be wired directly to the battery or to the common post of the switch.

3. you shouldn't have an acr if you have a 1-2-1+2-OFF switch, unless someone did some custom work after the factory.

4. Yes, it's OK to just leave an onboard charger plugged in (at least it is with ProSport, the brand I'm familiar with).  That's what I mostly do when off the water.  Mostly because sometimes I forget.

[oldjeep]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

1. Probably.  Assuming your setup is from the factory then off should mean off (or at least not combined).

2. the automatic circuit from bilge pump should be wired directly to the battery or to the common post of the switch.

3. you shouldn't have an acr if you have a 1-2-1+2-OFF switch, unless someone did some custom work after the factory.

4. Yes, it's OK to just leave an onboard charger plugged in (at least it is with ProSport, the brand I'm familiar with).  That's what I mostly do when off the water.  Mostly because sometimes I forget.

2- to which battery?

[shawndoggy]

12 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

2- to which battery?

Either one.  in a 1-2-ALL-OFF configuration batteries 1 and 2 are essentially mirror images of one another.  

But thinking about it a little, my prior statement about wiring to the common post is wrong.  At the switch It would be wired to one of the two battery posts (because you want it to work even though the switch is off).

[MFknK]

I think the OP is talking about a manual charger with spring(alligator) clips.

In this case, he could hook to one battery, leave the switch on 1+2 or both. It would then charge both batteries. The batteries are in parallel. I have done this on many boats in the past before I discovered how awesome onboard chargers are.

[dcarl]

It should be wire directly, it was on my previous boat. But I will testing it in my driveway because this is what it states in the manual.(which i know can be wrong or just copied from earlier years)

 

[shawndoggy]

1 minute ago, dcarl said:

It should be wire directly, it was on my previous boat. But I will testing it in my driveway because this is what it states in the manual.(which i know can be wrong or just copied from earlier years)

 

the surprising thing about this find in the manual is that I'm 99% sure my 2016 axis came with the bilge wired straight to the battery (as it should be).  Boat is still in storage or I'd confirm.

[ahopkins22LSV]

2019 vtx is wired straight to the battery. Just put my batteries in. 

[hawaiianstyln]

I have a bluesea dual battery switch and 5 battery setup.  I never have used an ACR on any of my boats nor this one without issues.  I have a ProSport 20+ 3 bank charger.  I wired my 4 stereo batteries into two separate parallel banks so that my 3 Bank onboard charger identifies 3 banks = 2 banks for Stereo + 1 bank for starting battery.  BlueSea dual switch - A = starting & B = Stereo

Edited April 5, 2019 by hawaiianstyln

[shawndoggy]

8 hours ago, hawaiianstyln said:

I have a bluesea dual battery switch and 5 battery setup.  I never have used an ACR on any of my boats nor this one without issues.  I have a ProSport 20+ 3 bank charger.  I wired my 4 stereo batteries into two separate parallel banks so that my 3 Bank onboard charger identifies 3 banks = 2 banks for Stereo + 1 bank for starting battery.  BlueSea dual switch - A = starting & B = Stereo

What keeps your two stereo banks isolated from each other?

[hawaiianstyln]

Good question i guess they dont because both banks have a single pos connection to the BlueSea switch.  But why would it matter?  The only reason i made stereo bank two seperate banks  so that the promariner would wire up correctly to 3 banks

[shawndoggy]

45 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

Good question i guess they dont because both banks have a single pos connection to the BlueSea switch.  But why would it matter?  The only reason i made stereo bank two seperate banks  so that the promariner would wire up correctly to 3 banks

First, both stereo banks are essentially combined into one big bank if they are both attached to a single battery post.  You aren't charging them separately because they are connected all the time.

Second, read Page 4 of the manual: Note: ProSport On-Board Marine Battery Chargers are designed for any combination of group 24,27,30 and 31 batteries. Each battery charger DC output cable must be connected to one (1) 12 Volt DC battery (even if batteries are configured for 24 Volt DC or 36Volt DC trolling motor or system applications).  If your application is for 4D or 8D large capacity batteries, please refer to ProMariner's website www.promariner.com and view our ProNauticP Hardwired Charger Assortment for a model that is correct for this group size of batteries.

You are connecting a DC output cable to two batteries at a time.  If your combined bank has an amp hour rating greater than a single group 31 125 amp hours, then you are using your charger in a way that it wasn't intended to be used.  if your four batteries together on the stereo bank cumulatively exceed 200ah, you effectively have a 4D battery and require a different sort of charger, according to ProMariner.

Edited April 6, 2019 by shawndoggy

[hawaiianstyln]

7 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

First, both stereo banks are essentially combined into one big bank if they are both attached to a single battery post.  You aren't charging them separately because they are connected all the time.

Second, read Page 4 of the manual: Note: ProSport On-Board Marine Battery Chargers are designed for any combination of group 24,27,30 and 31 batteries. Each battery charger DC output cable must be connected to one (1) 12 Volt DC battery (even if batteries are configured for 24 Volt DC or 36Volt DC trolling motor or system applications).  If your application is for 4D or 8D large capacity batteries, please refer to ProMariner's website www.promariner.com and view our ProNauticP Hardwired Charger Assortment for a model that is correct for this group size of batteries.

You are connecting a DC output cable to two batteries at a time.  If your combined bank has an amp hour rating greater than a single group 31 125 amp hours, then you are using your charger in a way that it wasn't intended to be used.  if your four batteries together on the stereo bank cumulatively exceed 200ah, you effectively have a 4D battery and require a different sort of charger, according to ProMariner.

 

Well crap!!  Suggestion???  You can PM me if we are hogging his post.  Maybe they want to know.  I know you know your stuff!

[MLA]

10 hours ago, hawaiianstyln said:

I have a bluesea dual battery switch and 5 battery setup.  I never have used an ACR on any of my boats nor this one without issues.  I have a ProSport 20+ 3 bank charger.  I wired my 4 stereo batteries into two separate parallel banks so that my 3 Bank onboard charger identifies 3 banks = 2 banks for Stereo + 1 bank for starting battery.  BlueSea dual switch - A = starting & B = Stereo

If they are wired this way ONLY for charging, dont sweat it. You can use 2 charge legs of your 3-bank to charge a single bank. 

[MFknK]

17 minutes ago, MLA said:

If they are wired this way ONLY for charging, dont sweat it. You can use 2 charge legs of your 3-bank to charge a single bank. 

If it were me, I would tie all of the negatives on the stereo batteries together. Them have 1 bank of the charger on each set of two. One bank on the starter battery. 

Make sure you have the switch in the off position when charging so the positives are disconnected between banks. That way the charger won’t see to charging banks hitting the same circuit.

[MLA]

2 minutes ago, MFknK said:

If it were me, I would tie all of the negatives on the stereo batteries together. Them have 1 bank of the charger on each set of two. One bank on the starter battery. 

Make sure you have the switch in the off position when charging so the positives are disconnected between banks. That way the charger won’t see to charging banks hitting the same circuit.

If get styln's setup, he's go a main cranking bank of one battery and a house bank made up of 4 batteries and a 3 bank charger. So his switch should be off when charging, just so the house and main are isolated. 

One charger bank handles the main bank and other 2 handle the 4 battery house bank. In reality, all the house bank grounds and positive are already connected, They have to be, or its a 3 bank setup, not 2.