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browneye253

4x Rev 10's on Arc KS300.2, Worth Swapping to 2x Syn-4

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browneye253

I purchased my Malibu last year and it already had 4 Rev 10's running on an ARC KS300.2 so by my calculations that's giving approximately 175 watts per speaker.  When I sold my previous boat I pulled out my system prior to selling it and I have a pair of Syn-4's sitting in my garage.  Is it worth going through the trouble of running the wires up the tower and wiring up the two amps to gain the extra 225ish watts per speaker?  Is there a way to install the amps without running a second set of wires up each tower leg?

Current Setup:

  • 4 - Rev 10's powered by 1 KS300.2
  • 1 - 10" Cerwin Vega Sub bridged on KS300.2
  • In Boats powered by RF Punch 400-4 
    • 4 x RF 6.5"
    • 4 x RF 8"

Available Amps Not Installed

  • 2 x Wetsounds SYN-4

Just curious what some of you more seasoned stereo peeps would do.

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Skymedic

I have four Rev 10’s powered by arc amps(I think the same ones) and they sound great! I’m not a stereo guru but there’s no problem hearing the tunes behind the boat surfing or boarding. 

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MLA

You would be doubling the wattage to each speaker. That can be an audible difference. 

I do not think there is any way around re-wiring the tower. 1) I think there is only two 2-conductors for the 4 factory tower speakers. So no way to wire 4 speakers to two 4 chnl amps. 2) IIRC, the factory wire is 16ga. Too light IMO, for the wattage. 

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shawndoggy

You could probably hear the difference but it won’t be as mind blowing as you might think. If you frequently run the speakers REALLY loud then it would be a good idea to switch just to have the headroom and avoid sending the speakers a clipped signal from your single amp running at the bleeding edge. But my bet is that in a blind test only you will be able to tell the difference. 

I had to run my two pair of revs in series from an arc ks600.2 once, so only about 100w per can. It was amazing how little difference there was between that and 400w a can. 

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granddaddy55
24 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

You could probably hear the difference but it won’t be as mind blowing as you might think. If you frequently run the speakers REALLY loud then it would be a good idea to switch just to have the headroom and avoid sending the speakers a clipped signal from your single amp running at the bleeding edge. But my bet is that in a blind test only you will be able to tell the difference. 

I had to run my two pair of revs in series from an arc ks600.2 once, so only about 100w per can. It was amazing how little difference there was between that and 400w a can. 

My rev 8’s are amazing at 185 rms that is under their minimum rms, allows you to throw all the amp has at a tuned gain snd HZ st the speaker .  My pair if rev8’s do very well st 80’, and are very good st surf distance without killing the passengers ears

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browneye253
2 hours ago, MLA said:

You would be doubling the wattage to each speaker. That can be an audible difference. 

I do not think there is any way around re-wiring the tower. 1) I think there is only two 2-conductors for the 4 factory tower speakers. So no way to wire 4 speakers to two 4 chnl amps. 2) IIRC, the factory wire is 16ga. Too light IMO, for the wattage. 

If I decide to install the Syn-4 what gauge speaker wire would you recommend?  I was running 12ga in my previous boat to the towers but that was a pain to fish through the tower bends.

 

I have a couple of other Winter todos to complete so I think I'll put this on the list but it'll be at the bottom currently.  The current setup sounds fine and you can easily hear it.  Just had the other gear available so thought I'd throw out the question.

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shawndoggy
3 hours ago, browneye253 said:

If I decide to install the Syn-4 what gauge speaker wire would you recommend?  I was running 12ga in my previous boat to the towers but that was a pain to fish through the tower bends.

 

I have a couple of other Winter todos to complete so I think I'll put this on the list but it'll be at the bottom currently.  The current setup sounds fine and you can easily hear it.  Just had the other gear available so thought I'd throw out the question.

So I've done this too -- on my 2011 MB Sports 23'er, I ran two pair of rev10s, originally on one Arc Audio KS600.2, and then later added a second KS600.2 so that each pair had its own amp.  The factory tower speaker wire was 16 gauge, and that's what I ran with just the one amp.  When I added the second amp, I also I upgraded that wire to 12 gauge.  Zero, and I mean ZERO sonic difference.  No way no how anybody would ever hear a difference.  Biggest waste of bloody knuckles I've ever had.  

I'm not saying @MLA is wrong.  There likely is some potential power that won't get to your speaker using 16ga wire.  But I am saying that the wattage to the speaker that's lost between 12ga and 16ga is not discernible to the ear, or at least it wasn't to mine.  

If you are real real worried about it, pull new 12ga to the tower bases, and then splice to the existing 16ga from there.  Knowing what I know now, that's what I'd do anyhow.

Edited by shawndoggy

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IXFE

@browneye253, I’m a big fan of “bi-amping” the tower. So if it was my boat I’d make use of those WS amps!  Not only will you more than double the wattage to each can, but you’ll get much cleaner 4 ohm power instead of 2 ohm. Sure you’ll have to run some wire. So what?  Last year I ran four sets of 14ga speaker wire and two sets of 22-4 LED wire in my G3 tower; with a good fish it took me about 90 minutes.  

One clarification. Are we talking about the new Syn Dx 4 or the older Syn 4...?  That might influence my feeling on the subject. 

4D13FA40-DE56-440B-AA0A-8ABAA3DABE97.jpeg

13754171-5DC2-44B8-ABB0-49D16C289FCA.jpeg

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browneye253
10 hours ago, IXFE said:

@browneye253, I’m a big fan of “bi-amping” the tower. So if it was my boat I’d make use of those WS amps!  Not only will you more than double the wattage to each can, but you’ll get much cleaner 4 ohm power instead of 2 ohm. Sure you’ll have to run some wire. So what?  Last year I ran four sets of 14ga speaker wire and two sets of 22-4 LED wire in my G3 tower; with a good fish it took me about 90 minutes.  

One clarification. Are we talking about the new Syn Dx 4 or the older Syn 4...?  That might influence my feeling on the subject. 

4D13FA40-DE56-440B-AA0A-8ABAA3DABE97.jpeg

13754171-5DC2-44B8-ABB0-49D16C289FCA.jpeg

It's the older SYN4.  Tower currently has a single 12 gauge ran up each leg and a second wire for the led rings on the those.

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Sparky450

Use the existing 12 gauge as a pull wire. Should be easy peasy. I like a separate 14-2 to e3ach speaker so 4 total. Plus LED

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browneye253
1 hour ago, Sparky450 said:

Use the existing 12 gauge as a pull wire. Should be easy peasy. I like a separate 14-2 to e3ach speaker so 4 total. Plus LED

Any problems if I were to run 14/4 instead of two 14/2 to save a little room on the wire sheath?

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MLA
1 hour ago, browneye253 said:

It's the older SYN4.  Tower currently has a single 12 gauge ran up each leg and a second wire for the led rings on the those.

A single 12/2 up each leg by change? If you, then tie a string to it, pull it out, attach another 12/2, and use the string to pull it all back up. 

With 2 amps for 4 speakers, you need a 2-conductor to each pod. 

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shawndoggy
35 minutes ago, browneye253 said:

Any problems if I were to run 14/4 instead of two 14/2 to save a little room on the wire sheath?

No prob... it's easier to pull but sometimes a little more difficult to connect at the pods (removing outer insulation to get the conductors to the right length for the pod).

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Nimbus-Conductor-CMP-Rated-Speaker/dp/B017SDDUPS?th=1

 

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browneye253
1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

No prob... it's easier to pull but sometimes a little more difficult to connect at the pods (removing outer insulation to get the conductors to the right length for the pod).

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Nimbus-Conductor-CMP-Rated-Speaker/dp/B017SDDUPS?th=1

 

Perfect.  That's the cable I was eyeing too.  

 

14 hours ago, IXFE said:

@browneye253, I’m a big fan of “bi-amping” the tower. So if it was my boat I’d make use of those WS amps!  Not only will you more than double the wattage to each can, but you’ll get much cleaner 4 ohm power instead of 2 ohm. Sure you’ll have to run some wire. So what?  Last year I ran four sets of 14ga speaker wire and two sets of 22-4 LED wire in my G3 tower; with a good fish it took me about 90 minutes.  

One clarification. Are we talking about the new Syn Dx 4 or the older Syn 4...?  That might influence my feeling on the subject. 

 

3

Got a recommendation on the 22/4 wire you used?  Pretty sure the previous installer ran Cat5 to both pods but I've read mixed reviews on using that for RGB and I'm planning to add a few more lights so might as well replace that wire if I'm messing with the tower.

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IXFE
6 hours ago, browneye253 said:

Perfect.  That's the cable I was eyeing too.  

 

Got a recommendation on the 22/4 wire you used?  Pretty sure the previous installer ran Cat5 to both pods but I've read mixed reviews on using that for RGB and I'm planning to add a few more lights so might as well replace that wire if I'm messing with the tower.

Nothing worth recommending. I wasn’t happy with the 22-4 that I used. One of those deals where the pics on Amazon looked good, but it was really difficult to work with and I ended up having connection issues with it. About half way through the season I gave up, pulled it all, and went with 18-2 from Home Depot instead. That’s all I really needed since I was only using BLUE instead of the entire RGB. And 18ga is so much easier to work with. 

This year I’m doing the same (blue only using 18-2) only I’m buying the same stuff Shawndoggy recommended above, only 18-2 variety (link below). I used this same 14-2 last year for my speaker wire and was quite pleased with it. The 14-4 idea above kinda blew my mind; with that stuff I’ll have the tower wire pulled in half the time.  The gems hiding in @shawndoggy‘s head... never ceases to amaze me.

Monoprice Nimbus Series 18 Gauge AWG 2 Conductor CMP-Rated Speaker Wire/Cable - 100ft UL Plenum Rated, 100% Pure Bare Copper with Color Coded Conductors https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017SDDDL4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ZefECbWJ5Z84D

Edited by IXFE

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David

Always a big fan of using, but not abusing, MORE power. It's often correctly stated that doubling your power on the same speakers will add +3 dB. That's an audible difference, but not that significant, as it takes +10 dB to be perceived as 'twice as loud'.  

However, there's a disconnect between continuous power ratings versus the real demands of music, and our perception. Bad music recordings might have an 8 dB crest factor. Great music recordings might have a 20 dB crest factor. Crest factor is the difference between the continuous level and peak level. And good music is very transient and dynamic. A 20 dB difference is a 1 to 100 difference in power ratio. The nature of music is this...While the continuous power may not be tested, the peak power is certainly challenged. You might not perceive those instantaneous differences as a gigantic difference in average volume, but you will perceive that extra headroom as improved contrast and clarity. Not so much at the end of a rope, but definitely at rest. So yeah, extra power reserves when used conservatively, and not automatically going to redline, just sounds better.   

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Nitrousbird

If you decide to go with the WS amps, I would be interested in that Arc amp.

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Murphy8166

I feel like I am day late here but why not throw my two cents in as I am very familiar with ARC audio and Wetsounds.

Personally you have over $2,400 invested in 4 great tower speakers and throwing a single Arc Audio 300.4 at them is like buying a sports car and throwing some mid grade in it.  You need to let those puppies out of the DOG HOUSE!!!!!!

If you want ARC Audio then you look at the KS600.2 or a pair of KS 300.4's.  If you want Wetsounds you look at an SD2 or a Syn Dx2.3hp or you looks at a pair of Syn Dx4's

300 watts minimum needs to go to the REV 10's.  I personally run the Syn Dx 2.3Hp and love that amp!!

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browneye253
On 3/4/2019 at 11:39 AM, Nitrousbird said:

If you decide to go with the WS amps, I would be interested in that Arc amp.

I'll let ya know!

21 minutes ago, Murphy8166 said:

I feel like I am day late here but why not throw my two cents in as I am very familiar with ARC audio and Wetsounds.

Personally you have over $2,400 invested in 4 great tower speakers and throwing a single Arc Audio 300.4 at them is like buying a sports car and throwing some mid grade in it.  You need to let those puppies out of the DOG HOUSE!!!!!!

If you want ARC Audio then you look at the KS600.2 or a pair of KS 300.4's.  If you want Wetsounds you look at an SD2 or a Syn Dx2.3hp or you looks at a pair of Syn Dx4's

300 watts minimum needs to go to the REV 10's.  I personally run the Syn Dx 2.3Hp and love that amp!!

Don't shoot the messenger... I purchased the boat with the system already installed ;) 

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