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Fish209

2009 VLX with added Rear Ballast - Bow Weight Question

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Fish209

I recently got a 2009 Wakesetter VLX with factory hard tanks. I believe the hard tanks are 200 pounds in each rear locker, 500 in the center and 350 in the bow hard tank under the seats.

 

I just installed WakeMakers Piggyback ballast upgrade in the rear lockers with 910 pound bags in each locker. So I now have 1,110 pounds in each rear locker for a total of 2,220 pounds in the rear.

 

I have heard the rule of thumb to create the best surf wave, you should be close to a 60/40 weight split between the rear and the bow. This means I will need to add some major weight to the bow. I was thinking of getting the WakeMakers 675 Sumo bag and pump combo, but that won't get me close to a 60/40 split if (and that's a big IF I fill the rear bags 100%). If I do fill the rear bags I'd need to add a little over 1,100 pounds in the bow to get to a 60/40 split. Sumo has a 975 bow bag. Should I get that bag with the sumo pump instead of the 675 pound Sumo bag?

 

With 2,220 pounds in the rear and 1,325 (350 hard tank+975 Sumo bag) in the front, I'd be in the ballpark of a 60/40 split.

 

If a great surf wave is a priority for me, what should I get for the bow now that I have added the piggyback ballast upgrade system to the rear lockers?

 

 

Thanks for all advice!!!

 

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jwl019

I would work off the numbers of 750-800 in each rear locker, it's hard to get the 900's completely full.

With 675 up front, the bow rides kind of low but dipping the bow was a rare occurrence on my 2010 VLX.  Usually new drivers or on rough water, it would get 1-2 dips during a day on the lake.

I think with the 975, it might would happen a lot more frequently, and even on the somewhat smoother days too.

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Sparky450

Fish, I ran the 1100's on the rear of my 07 21LSV. I may be wrong but the hulls should be close to the same size. However, they would not come any where close to being full. I figured i could only get about 850 in them without causing problems. I had a Sunscape so no other rear ballast. 650 In the ski locker at the front,  and 650 all the way full in the bow. That was a lot of weight in that boat for the delta. If a person was not paying attention it dipped regularly. I would be afraid to put 1000 in the bow. I would lose weight in the back before putting 1000 in the front. More than a few times I did quite a bit more than  a "chilidip".

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Fish209

Thanks! It sounds like the Sumo 675 bow bag might be the way to go. I definitely don't want the bow to ride too low and have too many dips. 

 

If I fill the rear bags to about 750 each, that would leave me with around 1,900 in the rear (along with the 200 pound hard tanks in each locker). If I get the Sumo 675 and fill it along with the 350 hard tank in the bow, I'll have about 1,025 in the bow. With this mix I'll be around 65/35 split in weight between the rear and bow. Or should I try to fill the rear bags less (around 600 pounds each) to get close to a 60/40 weight split?

Edited by Fish209

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jwl019

Try to get 750-800 in the rear initially and you can drain some if needed to get on plane and lower rpms if you need too.

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bovhica

I have a 2011 VRide21 (08 VLX hull) so not the same hull as your 09 but I'm also working off the 40/60 base line ratio you mentioned so maybe it will help?  I have rear tanks (400 total)  and center (500) mls. (Center is actually a 580 Fly High integrated bag that I'm guessing fills to about 500).  I fill a Sumo (750) bow bag on top of play pin seating (completely fills entire bow area), but I don't have the front mls tank.  Integrated rear Fly High 750s (1500 total) and a Fly High (370) under port side seating for slightly listing to regular side for surfing.  I use the Wakesurf Edge device and floating wedge for surfing.  Don't forget about the simulated weight of the wedge.  The floating wedge version simulates approx. (900) lbs of additional rear ballast.  This is the extra weight i initially didn't calculate and have decided to counter with (500) lbs lead this year (lead on order and waiting "patiently" for spring to come, lol.)

Keep in mind all of the ballast sac numbers are what each manufacturer lists as maximum weight, which are known to vary and the bags aren't always able to fill completely due to space of compartment.  Total weight of my setup is likely less than the total of the numbers above.  Here are my best guesses for actual weight:  1200 bow and center, 1900 rear (not including wedge) and 300 under port seats which I only use with a smaller crew to slightly list so I will not include the 300 in the ratio.

1200 front 1900 rear = 39/61 ratio (really close given margin of error guessing weights.)  With this setup my surf wave is very nice.  Tall with enough push for me (I'm 280) but also enough length to surf about 15' behind boat, but I wasn't figuring simulated wedge weight.

http://imgur.com/gallery/iSEqDoo

http://imgur.com/gallery/TE3NIdb

1200 front, 2800 rear (with wedge) = 30/70 which may be a good ratio for the wave I need, but I plan on placing the 500 lbs lead up front to counter the wedge weight to start and adjust the lead location and weight as necessary.  My bow rise isn't terrible, but I want to try to bring it down a bit and lengthen wave.  The lead will give me options depending on crew size and conditions.

1700 (with lead) front, 2800 (with wedge) rear = 38/62.

I'm not sure if I should calculate wedge weight into the ratio or not?  Maybe someone else can chime in?

I think you may regret the smaller bag and end up buying a bigger bag later.  If it were me, I'd get the larger bag in case you decide you want more weight.  You dont have to fill it all the way.  Or you could fill it and leave bow mls tank empty.  My point is the larger bag will give you more options and range.  I like options! Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Edited by bovhica

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Fish209

Thanks! This raises a couple questions regarding the 60/40 weight split people talk about.

 

Should I consider the power wedge into that ratio? They say it displaces the same as about 1,000 pounds in the rear. Should I add that 1,000 pounds to the rest of the weight I have in the rear. This would mean I'll have a max (if I use the power wedge to full capacity and fill hard tanks and bags 100%) rear weight of 3,220 which sounds crazy. 1,000 pounds of wedge, 200 pounds of hard tank ballast in each rear locker, 910 pound piggyback bags in each locker.

 

Would the 500 pound hard tank in the center figure into this at all? If so, how should that be figured in? The front (the 40% side?)?

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bovhica
5 hours ago, Fish209 said:

Thanks! This raises a couple questions regarding the 60/40 weight split people talk about.

 

Should I consider the power wedge into that ratio? They say it displaces the same as about 1,000 pounds in the rear. Should I add that 1,000 pounds to the rest of the weight I have in the rear. This would mean I'll have a max (if I use the power wedge to full capacity and fill hard tanks and bags 100%) rear weight of 3,220 which sounds crazy. 1,000 pounds of wedge, 200 pounds of hard tank ballast in each rear locker, 910 pound piggyback bags in each locker.

 

Would the 500 pound hard tank in the center figure into this at all? If so, how should that be figured in? The front (the 40% side?)?

The center tank is figured into the front weight (Its actually closer to front in front of fuel tank).  So you will have 850 in mls already up front plus which ever bag you decide to get.

  I'm not sure why we wouldn't include the wedge as ballast weight?  Maybe someone else can explain if it should not be included in the weight for ratio purposes? I did not include wedge into my weight calculations when I began designing my ballast setup.  I'm inclined to think that was a mistake and am now correcting it.  I wont know for sure for at least another month or 2 when I can get the boat out on the water with a crew.  The wedge is the reason I recommended the larger bag.  Also you wont get 910 lbs in the rear lockers.  If I had to guess, i would think 700 to 800 would be max.  I fill my 750s plum full and I'm not sure I'm getting 750.  I'm guessing 700.

Edited by bovhica

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Fish209

Thanks again! Man, it seems like I'm adding a TON of weight!!! Can my boat even handle this much?

 

Between the factory hard tanks and the extra ballast weight I'm adding, my max capacity will be 3,750 pounds of ballast (and that's if I only went with the 675 bow bag). Add in the power wedge and the simulated weight that adds, then add some people on board and I could be carrying well over 4,000 pounds (5,000 if you count the wedge). As I'm adding everything up, it sounds like too much weight. Am I doing something very wrong?

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Sparky450

Fish 

i figured 3500-4000 pounds, bodies or water. Plus wedge. It surfed very well. You will probably find when you have a lot of bodies you will lose weight somewhere. It is all a changing game. And also slightly list towards surf side😎

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bovhica

@Fish209The wedge weight is only simulated while in motion and not actually in the boat.  I'm only calculating it for ratio purposes. I'm running approx 3400 lbs water ballast plus crew, fuel and gear and have never felt like it was too much or dangerous.  Maybe I'm naive and have a false sense of security, but you will find that most members are running weights in the 3500 to 4000 range  for surfing as @Sparky450 has said.  With average crew and gear I'm probably a bit over 4000 on the 08 hull not including fuel.

Edited by bovhica

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Fish209

Thanks guys! Now the only problem I'll encounter is user error if/when I don't't quite get the weight distributed right. It won't be because the boat's not capable :)

 

 

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Sparky450

On the delta watch the bow weight. Especially when a lot of wakeboard/surf boats are around. My boat with an inexperienced driver,  took 3 waves at 6” plus over the nose. It was a very scary situation. If I was driving I would not have left the boat in the position it was in. 

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Fish209

Dang. One more thing to worry about :)

 

I am definitely a new, inexperienced driver so I'll really need to be careful not to ride too low in the bow. Thanks!

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bovhica

@Fish209 , being inexperienced, I'd try to keep the 40/60 ratio but just use a little less weight until you are comfortable in how your boat handles different conditions and know how to avoid other boats rollers.  Hint: don't point your bow directly into oncoming wave unless you are ready to hit the throttle and raise the bow across the roller. Better to maneuver the boat to take them on the side.  As you become more comfortable with your boat and how it steers (especially with little throttle and a wake device attached), add weight and experiment with the wave until you get it to your liking maintaining the 40/60 rule as a base line.

  Also a good idea to teach other crew members to operate your boat correctly and safely so you get to surf too!!!  Dont forget to post pics!!!!

Edited by bovhica

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granddaddy55
10 hours ago, Fish209 said:

Dang. One more thing to worry about :)

 

I am definitely a new, inexperienced driver so I'll really need to be careful not to ride too low in the bow. Thanks!

Your going to ride low with real bow weight

unless you are on a super busy lake, run your weight but do the following:

at the exact same time you pull up on throttle turn the wheel completely to non surf side , catch a good neutral and when completely off plane go into a strong reverse with wheel still fully turned, about 6-8 seconds ,catch a good neutral again and  then proceed straight back to surfer carefully gauging the smaller rollers as they will get you too! (You avoid your own wave of rollers as they go to side and your now in the middle instead of turning into your own big rollers which is what will put water over nose most of the time)

when not under motion and boats pass near you with a real wake , rotate the boat with a reverse or a wheel turned forward and present your stern to their wake/wave

i do have real gates that retract so that makes it easier to do the maneuver 

Edited by granddaddy55

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