23lsv 2019 non - wakeview bench seat option question

[G Spot]

20 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

I cannot speak for other models, but the new 25 LSV brackets are slimmer so that it is not an ankle biter.  I still did not bother to get it being an extra $2700 and all...I only used it occasionally on my Nautique.  It didn't seem to justify greater than 2% of the purchase price of the entire boat.  

Off topic, but I haven't seen a 25 without the wake bench seat. Would love to see that area on your boat and how you access trans/vdrive - is it a flip forward like on the 23?

[bbattiste247]

@TheHulk said "And for $2,700 it should lay into a bed and that I would use all the time at sand bar.

Malibu brags how the wake view bench has 8 positions, and they all are very functional. But all they had to do is add a ninth position to turn it in a bed. When the bench is in the middle seat position, IF the back rest was able to be pushed down all the way toward the transom, it would make for a perfect bed. Nearly every time I pull the seat away, I look at it and think, if only it would go down all the way. By looking at the hinges, I think it would have been a simple addition.  Then Malibu could market it with 9 positions.

[wilster]

13 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

@TheHulk said "And for $2,700 it should lay into a bed and that I would use all the time at sand bar.

Malibu brags how the wake view bench has 8 positions, and they all are very functional. But all they had to do is add a ninth position to turn it in a bed. When the bench is in the middle seat position, IF the back rest was able to be pushed down all the way toward the transom, it would make for a perfect bed. Nearly every time I pull the seat away, I look at it and think, if only it would go down all the way. By looking at the hinges, I think it would have been a simple addition.  Then Malibu could market it with 9 positions.

now that feature would improve my quality of life!

[TallRedRider]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:43 AM, G Spot said:

Off topic, but I haven't seen a 25 without the wake bench seat. Would love to see that area on your boat and how you access trans/vdrive - is it a flip forward like on the 23?

It flips up backward on my 25 LSV.  You can't open the hatch with the seat flipped all the way up, so you have to flip up the seat almost all the way, then remove the door.  The V-drive is way down in there, so the access hatch is not terribly usable other than for checking the fluid.  Any real work would have to be accessed by removing the floor or reaching from the sides.  

[eubanks]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:25 PM, G Spot said:

My only complains are 1) the bracket on the sides are an ankle biter 

Gary

^ This was our concern and one of the reason we opted out of it for our build.  Also, our kids and friends like to move in and out of the bow a lot and thought it would be harder to climb over with a boat full of people.

[DwayneE]

We do use ours all the time...

[gregtay]

I am going to chime in on this thread with an update. We didn’t order the wake view seat or the flip down rear seat backs... mainly because I wasn’t looking to add a bunch of metal moving parts to the interior of the boat and the seat offered in the 23 this year seemed quite inferior to the new one in the 25 and other boats. So we skipped it. Well if you are at that crossroads I’d recommend just checking the box... I wish I had. Turns out the non-wake view seat design is also very inferior 😏... the seat is not supported on the ends of the cushion since the whole back of the floor is the same design as the WV seat with the drains rearward so they left a huge gap in the support base  Well if you step on the end of the center cushion(which is a very natural place to step coming in from the deck) it drops/sags quite badly(because it isn’t supported at all!!!! The plastic seat base board + cushion just flex as you would expect if you designed something that way. Not sure how this is going to hold up over time. So even if you don’t want the wake view seat... just order it so that you have a ridged rear center seat base. Again.. just a terrible design. I have had my boat for 10 days , have ~10 hours and you can already see a permanent bend/curve to the ends of the seat base. I’d do anything to go back and check that box and pay even 2x the cost of the option to have it now.

PS.... I tip the scales at 160 pounds and it flexes that much... can’t imagine what happens if a much larger person steps down.

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by gregtay

[TallRedRider]

Holy crap, Batman!  Mine does not flex anything like that.  I was the victim of a recall for this item, however.  Malibu replaced my back seat free of charge.  I think it was because I had the more flimsy board on the first edition. I didn't notice it bending either, but they recalled it pretty quick, and I simply may not have gotten around to stepping on it exactly like you have.    IIRC, the new back seat is made with thicker starboard, which is very rigid.  I would talk to the dealer about that.  It is just a matter of time before it fatigues, then collapses and then you are risking breaking an ankle.   But my boat was built in January/early February and they said they discovered it before too many went out the door.  

 

BTW, they let me keep the old one, so now I have an extra skin when that skin rips from people stepping on it.  YMMV.  

Edited May 13, 2019 by TallRedRider

[gregtay]

14 minutes ago, TallRedRider said:

Holy crap, Batman!  Mine does not flex anything like that.  I was the victim of a recall for this item, however.  Malibu replaced my back seat free of charge.  I think it was because I had the more flimsy board on the first edition. I didn't notice it bending either, but they recalled it pretty quick, and I simply may not have gotten around to stepping on it exactly like you have.    IIRC, the new back seat is made with thicker starboard, which is very rigid.  I would talk to the dealer about that.  It is just a matter of time before it fatigues, then collapses and then you are risking breaking an ankle.   But my boat was built in January/early February and they said they discovered it before too many went out the door.  

 

BTW, they let me keep the old one, so now I have an extra skin when that skin rips from people stepping on it.  YMMV.  

Thanks, super helpful. My boat was built I. April... so you would think it would have the “fix”. Step on yours when you have a chance and let me know if you still have an issue. Thx

[hethj7]

Yikes!  Surely that isn’t the way it is supposed to be. 

 

[IXFE]

@gregtay you can’t step there with the wakeview bench either; there’s a gap there to accommodate the bench hardware and movement. 

I stepped there ONCE with my 2017 25 LSV (first time I had the bench); after that you pretty much train yourself to step elsewhere. There’s lots of things that can hurt you on any boat. I tell my kids all the time, “This ain’t a jungle gym, be aware you your surroundings!”

[gregtay]

4 minutes ago, IXFE said:

@gregtay you can’t step there with the wakeview bench either; there’s a gap there to accommodate the bench hardware and movement. 

I stepped there ONCE with my 2017 25 LSV (first time I had the bench); after that you pretty much train yourself to step elsewhere. There’s lots of things that can hurt you on any boat. I tell my kids all the time, “This ain’t a jungle gym, be aware you your surroundings!”

I think the difference is you can see why you shouldn’t step there... ‘cause it is a gap and there is metal. And maybe that’s the price you pay for having the WV seats. But I don’t have a WV seat.. I wanted a normal seat.   In my case you see a seat, you think you are just stepping on the cushion just like I have for 15 years in every boat I have owned. Again.. just sad lazy engineering on Malibu’s part. It should be reinforced at the least. I love my boat and I love Malibu... but there really is no excuse for some of this stuff... not when Malibu wants to market themselves as the best in class boat and charge the prices they do. And no.. we as should not just be okay with poor quality control and poor/lazy engineering. 

[TallRedRider]

Here is my 225 pound self standing on one foot, leaning over forward and taking the picture of me standing on the corner of the cushion in question.  It appears to me the foam compresses as expected, but the board does not flex.  I never did this with the unfixed version.  

Seeing IXFE's wakeview seat, I am kind of happy not to have that big gap between the side and center seat.  

 

 

[IXFE]

8 hours ago, gregtay said:

I think the difference is you can see why you shouldn’t step there... ‘cause it is a gap and there is metal. And maybe that’s the price you pay for having the WV seats. But I don’t have a WV seat.. I wanted a normal seat.   In my case you see a seat, you think you are just stepping on the cushion just like I have for 15 years in every boat I have owned. Again.. just sad lazy engineering on Malibu’s part. It should be reinforced at the least. I love my boat and I love Malibu... but there really is no excuse for some of this stuff... not when Malibu wants to market themselves as the best in class boat and charge the prices they do. And no.. we as should not just be okay with poor quality control and poor/lazy engineering. 

Sad, lazy engineering?  Are you serious?  Let’s analyze that statement. Less than 10% of LSV and MXZ boats leave the factory without the wakeview bench. The boats were DESIGNED to have this bench. Not having a bench isn’t even an option on most other boats in this class. Malibu makes it an option to allow guys like you to save a few bucks, but make no mistake, the boat was ENGINEERED to have this bench. You realize that doing it your way would require a completely separate mold for the top deck, just for the few folks who skip the bench.

You want me to be honest?  I think it’s sad lazy research by you. Everything you’re whining about could have easily been discerned BEFORE you placed your order. I was tempted to skip the bench last year when I ordered my 23 LSV. But I insisted on seeing a boat without it before I committed. When I saw the pics of what that looked like I wasn’t thrilled with it, so I added the bench. Why? Because I realized the boat was designed for the bench. 

Look, I’m not saying I love the design, but I understand why it is that way.  It’s no different than buying any other complex product... you do your research and you make your decision. Then you accept the outcome.  That’s how this works. 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by IXFE

[Chappy]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:13 AM, weekender said:

thanks!!! I am finalizing a build with dealer now, and was just thinking about adding the wake view bench or not.

guessing with the pull up tabs, that seat comes up toward inside of boat  on hinges to access the inside?

and guessing you can remove the tray for more space or have a small soft cooler on the sides of the compartment under the seats?

For what is worth, we really like the wakeview seating.

[breakz77]

We got the bench and after only having the boat out a few times I'm glad we got the option.

[gregtay]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Sad, lazy engineering?  Are you serious?  Let’s analyze that statement. Less than 10% of LSV and MXZ boats leave the factory without the wakeview bench. The boats were DESIGNED to have this bench. Not having a bench isn’t even an option on most other boats in this class. Malibu makes it an option to allow guys like you to save a few bucks, but make no mistake, the boat was ENGINEERED to have this bench. You realize that doing it your way would require a completely separate mold for the top deck, just for the few folks who skip the bench.

You want me to be honest?  I think it’s sad lazy research by you. Everything you’re whining about could have easily been discerned BEFORE you placed your order. I was tempted to skip the bench last year when I ordered my 23 LSV. But I insisted on seeing a boat without it before I committed. When I saw the pics of what that looked like I wasn’t thrilled with it, so I added the bench. Why? Because I realized the boat was designed for the bench. 

Look, I’m not saying I love the design, but I understand why it is that way.  It’s no different than buying any other complex product... you do your research and you make your decision. Then you accept the outcome.  That’s how this works. 

 

I think you missed my point IXFE... I did do my research and this thread was part of the research. People seemed about 50/50 on the seat, either didn’t use it or it got in the way.  Some people got it just for resale but I’m not a boat flipper so I don’t care about that. My wife didn’t want it only because she was afraid the kiddos would bang their legs on the handle or hinges. We checked just about every other option on our boat... it wasn’t a cheap build. We loved how the WV seat worked in the Supra(more like the 25LSV design) but didn’t love the 23LSV design so I was in the fence. Had someone posted earlier in this thread that the no WV seat isn’t reinforced and it flexes significantly (not a great design) I would have no question checked the box.  So my point in coming back here was to make sure anyone else making that choice who is doing their research has a new data point on why, even if they are in the fence, they should check the damn box.  My hope is that Malibu will somehow let me order the WV seat and I can install it myself. All I need is the bracket, the seat itself (cushions on frame) and the new floor insert to replace the built up one I have (it is just screwed in from what I can tell.) Even if they told me it was $5k for the parts I’d probably do it.

[ahopkins22LSV]

@gregtay, why don’t you mention the fix that @TallRedRider mentions they did to his? Seems like a much simpler way to go that would probably be zero cost to you. Yes it’s probably a good question of why the change wasn’t carried over to yours or other boats but it sounds like they have a fix for it so that question is really water under the bridge. 

[gregtay]

12 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

@gregtay, why don’t you mention the fix that @TallRedRider mentions they did to his? Seems like a much simpler way to go that would probably be zero cost to you. Yes it’s probably a good question of why the change wasn’t carried over to yours or other boats but it sounds like they have a fix for it so that question is really water under the bridge. 

Yea, that's the obvious first step is see if they can "fix" the seat I have (I was jumping a bit there on my last statement :-O.)  Hopefully it turns out my seat base is somehow still the "pre fixed" design.  The other thing I can do is just add some HDPE blocks mounted to the side seat bases that provide some support to the ends of the center cushion (I have no idea why Malibu didn't do this at the first hint that the seat wasn't supported well.)  The blocks will be hidden from view and won't interfere with anything. Something like this:

 

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, gregtay said:

 Had someone posted earlier in this thread that the no WV seat isn’t reinforced and it flexes significantly (not a great design) I would have no question checked the box...

I’m aware of your point. You’ve made more than enough noise.

I think YOU missed my point. The above quote from you is my evidence... now you’re blaming TMC for not doing your research for you. 

[IXFE]

50 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

@gregtay, why don’t you mention the fix that @TallRedRider mentions they did to his? Seems like a much simpler way to go that would probably be zero cost to you. Yes it’s probably a good question of why the change wasn’t carried over to yours or other boats but it sounds like they have a fix for it so that question is really water under the bridge. 

Are we sure there’s a “fix” for this?  When I look at the two pics below what I see is the gap is wider on the 23 than the 25 (look at the drain for reference). Perhaps that’s why one flexes and one doesn’t. It’s the same seat base material hanging over a wider gap. 

[gregtay]

1 minute ago, IXFE said:

I’m aware of your point. You’ve made more than enough noise.

I think YOU missed my point. The above quote from you is my evidence... now you’re blaming TMC for not doing your research for you. 

I am certainly not blaming TMC, that's crazy.  I came here to let others know the non-WV seat design isn't great, don't go down the path I did... so make sure you get the WV seat.  Enough noise?  At what point did I make noise?  Is any negative statement around the design of our boats "making noise?"  That's not the TMC I have known and loved for just as many years as you have.  I didn't blame anyone, I am not demanding anything from Malibu, I am not screaming for someone to "fix my boat" or make a scene in hopes that Malibu does something.  I made a mistake by assuming (yep.. opps.. my bad) that Malibu would design a solid rear seat base regardless of WV seat or not. Why? Because in my 11 years of owning Malibu's I have extreme faith that they design things right and everything is solid and very well thought out.  You basically inferred in your post that "Malibu's are only a solid design if you order all the right options... otherwise expect things to not be great and you need to be okay with that decision."  That's not the Malibu I know and I sure hope you have higher expectations for the brand... otherwise everyone should second guess some of the boxes they check on their order sheets or else they need to be prepared to accept mediocre.

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Are we sure there’s a “fix” for this?  When I look at the two pics below what I see is the gap is wider on the 23 than the 25 (look at the drain for reference). Perhaps that’s why one flexes and one doesn’t. It’s the same seat base material hanging over a wider gap. 

Very good point. I'd still investigate it just to make sure. We've missed read-across points in corrective actions in my manufacturing plant so it does happen. 

[TallRedRider]

It sure does look like the 23 has a much wider gap than my 25 does.  Good pickup, IXFE.  I will try and measure the gap when I get home.  @gregtay should do the same.  I am guessing I have a 4-6 inch gap, his looks more like 8-10 inches.  It could be camera perspective, so worth a direct measurement.  

[gregtay]

5 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

It sure does look like the 23 has a much wider gap than my 25 does.  Good pickup, IXFE.  I will try and measure the gap when I get home.  @gregtay should do the same.  I am guessing I have a 4-6 inch gap, his looks more like 8-10 inches.  It could be camera perspective, so worth a direct measurement.  

Here is the 23. Just shy of 7”