Audi Q5 TDI vs Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel

[RyanB]

So I went out and did some test driving today.  I hate buying used cars.  Terrible experience.

I've been searching quite a bit, and this one comes up last night.  When I first saw it, it was listed at $21,000 and change.  I contact dealer by email.  He comes back at a "internet discount price" of $25k.  Talk to dealer on the phone who apologizes that it was on their website wrong, and has now been corrected.  Still seems like a fair price, so I tell him we will come take a look.

https://www.larryhmillerdodgeramhavana.com/used/Jeep/2014-Jeep-Grand+Cherokee-5277dba90a0e0ae948a2c25cffd5744f.htm

Drive 45 minutes to see the dealer, "sorry, we sold that one last night".  But we have some similar vehicles we can sell you.  How about a brand new 1500 with the EcoDiesel.  

I expressed my displeasure with the tactics, and we went on our way.

Went to Plan B, look at another GC, just to get a feel for the diesel.  This one is on the higher side of mileage that I want and on the lower side of equipment, but the dealer is relatively close, so it is a go.  Call dealer, confirm it is there.  Show up 30 minutes later and it is (win).

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/759167982/overview/

Start Jeep, pull out onto the street, and it just doesn't seem to shift right.  Salesman says, well, I'm not sure, maybe it is just cold.  Still shifts like crap 5 minutes later when tranny temp is 137* (on a 20* day).   Try to use the adaptive cruise.  Error light comes on dash "service ACC".  Lane departure assist doesn't work.  Head back to dealer where salesman says "what's it going to take to get you into this beauty".

Decide to go look at a Q5.  Call the dealer to confirm it is there.  He goes through everything on the car, including apologizing that it only has one key.  Great, I'll be there in 30 minutes.

https://www.emichvw.com/inventory/used-2014-audi-q5-tdi-premium-plus-quattro-4d-sport-utility-wa1cmafp3ea109706

Show up to the dealer, and get an apology that it just sold last night.  But "you can look at it if you want, or I have one that is a model year newer, lower miles, and about the same price".  Sure, I'll take a look and go for a drive.

So he shows us this one (didn't tell me the price and I didn't ask).

https://www.emichvw.com/inventory/used-2015-audi-q5-3-0t-premium-plus-quattro-4d-sport-utility-wa1cmafp7fa061984

Take it for a drive, and it is impressive.  Cabin materials feel better than the GC.  Much quieter interior.  Performance of the engine is fantastic, one of the more fun SUVs I have driven.  Start to talk $$$, and they tell me that they are about $6k more than the other one, and not much room to budge.

So, my take aways are that buying a car sucks.  Feel like I wasted the better part of the afternoon.

The Audi driving is really nice.  But the technology leaves a lot to be desired.  No adaptive cruise, lane assist, collision mitigation.  I can't figure out if the radio is even bluetooth to stream from my phone.

The GC has all the tech that I would like, but not nearly the driving experience (I can't imagine even with the tranny shifting right that it could rival the Audi).

Still undecided.

[jjackkrash]

1 hour ago, RyanB said:

The Audi driving is really nice.  But the technology leaves a lot to be desired.  No adaptive cruise, lane assist, collision mitigation.  I can't figure out if the radio is even bluetooth to stream from my phone.

IIRC, the tech on the Audi Qs is light years better starting model year 2017.  Pre-2017 models are like 2010 tech.    

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

IIRC, the tech on the Audi Qs is light years better starting model year 2017.  Pre-2017 models are like 2010 tech.    

Probably so.  I don't think I can get a 2017 TDI, which will rule them out.  That, and way above what I want to spend.

[Cole2001]

That’s the thing with the luxury brand of cars, if you don’t get top model you don’t get the technology. What you do get is a beautiful driving car. 

Test drove a QX70 a couple years back and it was a beautiful comfortable car. 

Here’s one 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=503787565&zip=80201&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D80201%26listingTypes%3Dused%26startYear%3D1981%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2020%26modelCodeList%3DINFINQX70%26makeCodeList%3DINFIN%26searchRadius%3D50&listingTypes=used&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2020&modelCodeList=INFINQX70&makeCodeList=INFIN&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=INFIN&modelCode1=INFINQX70&clickType=listing

[Nitrousbird]

13 hours ago, RyanB said:

The Audi driving is really nice.  But the technology leaves a lot to be desired.  No adaptive cruise, lane assist, collision mitigation.  I can't figure out if the radio is even bluetooth to stream from my phone.

As long as it is a '13+, it will have Bluetooth streaming, as that's when Audi updated the MMI system.  Oddly, even though the Q5 is on the same platform as the S4/S5, it doesn't get as many option's.  My wife's B8.5 S4 has the lane keep assist.  Adaptive cruise was an option but hard to find (and useless for her, as she never, ever uses cruise control).  There is an Android Auto aftermarket upgrade for the MMI that is available now - not sure if all the bugs are sorted yet but I may eventually get for the wife's car.  

[shawndoggy]

So if I am reading right, the main things you are looking for are good snow performance, good fuel economy and a good tech package? As crazy as it may seem the Mazda CX5 is definitely worth a look.  

[oldjeep]

15 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

So if I am reading right, the main things you are looking for are good snow performance, good fuel economy and a good tech package? As crazy as it may seem the Mazda CX5 is definitely worth a look.  

Or a Kia Sorrento.  My daughters 2012 sounds like it has more tech in it than the Audi

[RyanB]

42 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

So if I am reading right, the main things you are looking for are good snow performance, good fuel economy and a good tech package? As crazy as it may seem the Mazda CX5 is definitely worth a look.  

Mostly.  Fun to drive would be nice (the Q5 checks that box).  Being able to pull my fishing boat would be a bonus.

Going to be some trade offs.  I feel like I am on House Hunters.  I want all of this stuff, but don't want to pay for it.

[shawndoggy]

7 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Mostly.  Fun to drive would be nice (the Q5 checks that box).  Being able to pull my fishing boat would be a bonus.

Going to be some trade offs.  I feel like I am on House Hunters.  I want all of this stuff, but don't want to pay for it.

ha!  I hear ya.  The mazda should check the fun to drive box too (again, as crazy as it may sound).  It'd be worth a test drive for sure.  Going much newer within your budget will definitely give you substantial steps up in tech too.  Android Auto / Carplay, lane assist, braking etc.

definitely not going to tow anything ... but I wouldn't think that the Q5 could either.

[RyanB]

Has anyone used "blinker"?  There are a number of cars listed with that, but they just don't feel right.  And the last dealer was talking some crap about them (which I take with a grain of salt).

What about Carvana?  Interesting service, not sure I want to commit to buying without a test drive though.

@shawndoggy, the Q5 TDI is rated to tow 4400 pounds.  My fishing boat is probably 2500.

[RyanB]

Here is one from Blinker.  They have a number of vehicles posted from the same location, very similar prices, but different photos.

https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/aurora-2015-audi-q5-blue/6820634285.html

[RyanB]

Sold my Lexus today.  So that means either myself or my wife will be driving our 3500 DRW RAM until it is replaced.  Love the truck.  Not as a daily driver.

Wife suggested we look at a AWD 300.  We had a 300 for a number of years until a hail storm destroyed it.  That car treated us very well.

I can get a 2018 loaded AWD 300 for less than $25000.  That would have all the tech I want, be good in the snow.  Probably not as quick as the Audi was, but still ok to drive, but bigger than I was thinking about.

[Sixer]

My wife drives a 2014 Q5 (not a TDI) and I have a 2018 Q7.  The Quattro drive system in them is fantastic.  My last vehicle was a Lexus GX 460 with AWD, and prior to that a Mercedes ML with 4 Matic.  We have plenty of ice and snow here and the Quattro has been better than any other all wheel drive system we've had.  We haven't had any issues with either vehicle, other than her Q5 had a couple of factory recalls which were fixed free at the dealership.  A guy I work with bought a few of the TDI's when they were doing the buyback/repair programs, and they were great vehicles for him as well.  He did it to make $, but both he and his wife really liked them. 

Another co-worker bought a Tahoe through "Vroom" and it was shipped up to her unseen from Texas.  I think they give you like 5-7 days to "return" it if something isn't right on it if they can't fix it.  She had 2 minor things fixed on hers when it arrived here and Vroom paid the bill.  I'm sure it's cheaper for them to fix and warranty something than to drive it back across the country.  

Good luck with the search!

[RyanB]

Spent today car shopping again.  Not really enjoying this experience.

Wife is more interested in the GC, so that is the way we are leaning.

There is only one GC EcoDiesel listed private party that I can find.  Every other one (not a lot) are at dealers.  

Anyone have an idea of idea of what to offer at a dealer?  Found one today that I liked enough to make an offer on.  I offered about 8% below asking price and they basically wouldn't budge so I walked.

[Cole2001]

Shows 22 diesel GC in Colorado. Might have to select fuel type under filter results. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-Colorado-Springs-d490_L4102

 

Wow that is surprising they wouldn’t budge at all. 8% isn’t a lot on a under 30k car. Even then a dealer would normally come back with something ever so slightly better. 

Buying cars can be so annoying. At times our purchases have been more dictated by the dealer than the car itself.

I’ve got a new dealership open up in town (owned under ford) specializing in slightly used trucks/SUV’s, the part I like is that they’re real people, not giving you the used car salesmen feel. On top of that they’ll go on a search anywhere to find what you want, for a particular price until they can get one for that price. Finding something like this would be ideal for you Ryan. 

[RyanB]

@Cole2001thanks.  If I add a filter to show vehicles below $32k, and mileage below 60k, you are down to 7 matches within 500 miles.  Two on this list I haven't seen.  The others I have spoken with.

If I am at the top end of the price spectrum, I would like adaptive cruise and the air suspension, which limits the list further.   But maybe that is being too picky.

I'm not aware of any dealers like you suggest, but would like to find one.  Maybe that is a business I should create.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-Colorado-Springs-d490_L4102

Edited February 24, 2019 by RyanB

[jjackkrash]

Vroom reportedly delivers it to your door with no haggling and a return policy.  I doubt you get a razor-thin deal but I bet its a relatively low risk market-value deal with less hassle.    

https://www.vroom.com/catalog/all-years/jeep_grand_cherokee/

[shawndoggy]

Imho 8% is a TON to talk a dealer down IF the car in question is already priced competitively. Which you will know if you’ve been in the hunt for a while. The days of getting huge markdowns are over because internet pricing is keeping dealers from starting from a grossly overpriced starting point to begin with. 

How does the price compare on car gurus or cars.com price guidance?

[oldjeep]

Seem to be a lot of eco summits and overlands around here in your price range.  Might need to look further out.  They are a pretty common vehicle in mn.  Isnt Colorado subaru land? 

[RyanB]

4 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

Vroom reportedly delivers it to your door with no haggling and a return policy.  I doubt you get a razor-thin deal but I bet its a relatively low risk market-value deal with less hassle.    

https://www.vroom.com/catalog/all-years/jeep_grand_cherokee/

That looks similar to Carvana, although Vroom doesn't have the same filters (ie I can't find anything that is a GC Diesel).  That might be a way I have to consider going, but I am leery of buying site unseen.  I've looked at three vehicles so far that looked good on the listing/photos, but were less than my expectations in person.

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Imho 8% is a TON to talk a dealer down IF the car in question is already priced competitively. Which you will know if you’ve been in the hunt for a while. The days of getting huge markdowns are over because internet pricing is keeping dealers from starting from a grossly overpriced starting point to begin with. 

How does the price compare on car gurus or cars.com price guidance?

Good question.  I've seen three sell very quickly on line before I could see them that were priced similar to this one.  But they had listed new tires in the ad.  That was kind of the sticking point.  Tires are going to be around $1400, and that is what I thought was reasonable to negotiate for.  Maybe they will call me back this week.  I am out of town Monday/Tuesday.  I have lined up two others to look at Wednesday.  If they are still in stock.  

54 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Seem to be a lot of eco summits and overlands around here in your price range.  Might need to look further out.  They are a pretty common vehicle in mn.  Isnt Colorado subaru land? 

I am willing to look further out, but I would like to stay away from areas that are prone to rust.

I've heard that Colorado is Subaru's biggest market.  But there are a LOT of Jeeps here too.

[oldjeep]

$1400 for tires?  What kid of tires are you buying? 

[RyanB]

Michelin Defenders are $936 + $120 for mount/balance/road hazard.  Also needed a windshield and alignment.

 

Edit:

And none of the other GC or Q5 I've looked at needed any of these.  All have been at larger dealers and were ready to go as they were sitting on the lot.

Edited February 25, 2019 by RyanB

[That Guy]

Following this as I've been eyeing a GC diesel for my next used SUV.

[RyanB]

More and more baffled by the process.  The dealer that has the car I made an offer on called me yesterday to check in.  He "wants to make something work that both of us can live with".  I am good with that.

He recapped where we were at (mis-stating it in his favor).  I told him no, the way I remembered it.  But I also told him that I would meet him in the middle, which again would be about 4% below his asking price.  And he didn't even counter.  Maybe he has another buyer in mind?

Go to look at another Jeep today at the end of the day.  Call the dealer (a Volvo/Caddy dealer), confirm it is there.  Go to see it and it is pretty buried in a snow drift.  Can barely walk around to see it, sales lady won't even get close to it as she is worried about slipping in her heels (we haven't had snow in almost a week).  I get in and try to start it and......dead battery.  "No problem" she says.  "I'll get our jumper cart over here.  It should only take 30 minutes or so".  I told her I'll come back tomorrow mid-morning to look at it.  Hopefully it starts then.

[jjackkrash]

I thought these guys actually wanted to sell cars.  But it sounds like I am way off base.