New video... 25 LSV vs. G23

[Cole2001]

Who cares about which boat has which pnp or more weight. These comparisons should be done at the most common riding configuration(aka stock).  I’ll be the first to agree the bu is longer than the G but I also believe there is better out there. To say something is the best is never true, there is always something better. 

[Justasurfer]

On 2/1/2019 at 12:09 AM, Lees23 said:

Anyone see the recent Chevy reliability commercial?  Chevy claimed to be more reliable than Honda or Toyota... based on a customer survey.  They eventually pulled the add after Toyota threatened to expose where they were getting their findings. 

That's exactly what this reminded me of.  It's usually the underdog that uses this type of commercial and that cheapens their brand because nobody believes them anyway.  Not saying Malibu is an underdog, but it seems like this type of ad makes them look desperate, and I don't think they are nor should they be.   At least they didn't use the Chevy line "real people, not actors".  Just build good boats and put em out there, the market will decide who's best.

[IXFE]

I just read this on IG about the testing methodology....

[Suggy]

15 hours ago, Justasurfer said:

That's exactly what this reminded me of.  It's usually the underdog that uses this type of commercial and that cheapens their brand because nobody believes them anyway.  Not saying Malibu is an underdog, but it seems like this type of ad makes them look desperate, and I don't think they are nor should they be.   At least they didn't use the Chevy line "real people, not actors".  Just build good boats and put em out there, the market will decide who's best.

And the market does just that.  Malibu/Axis at 37%, Nautique at 17% and MC at 16%, the next highest around 7% (I believe Tige..?). More than 1/3 of the boats sold in the US are a Malibu/Axis.  Malibu/Axis outsells their next highest competitor by more double. Let that sink in. "The truth is on the water."

[carguy79ta]

I have one of the 'other' brands..a 257, and the weight capacity is in addition to all factory ballast which includes pnp. My 2015 A22 wasnt like that I think. The lead I run eats into crew size, but we typically have a small crew.

[Dfowkes]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:17 AM, TallRedRider said:

During my test drive the 25 wave was longer on the 25 than my G23.  I think my family is really going to like it.  I think it had less power than the G wave that was very steep, but was plenty enough for my amateur self to have a great time.  @Dfowkes , did you test drive?    RPM's are substantially higher dragging that wedge, which almost certainly translates to more GPH, but I don't care a whole lot about that.  

I did not think the 23 wave was as long.  

On my 2016 I usually only run one or two maybe 3 clicks of wedge from lift.  It is plenty of wedge, wave was long and tall (Pic below 2016 25LSV)  My experience with the wedge is that a little goes long way.  Too much wedge for me equates to much bow rise.  We typically run full ballast plus pnp and some lead.  With a full crew I don't fill the pnp.  With the 2 to 1 transmission, M6DI and larger prop the RPM's were 3200, 3300 on the 2019.  Wave was great on the demo but I didn't get behind the boat.   

[TenTwentyOne]

55 minutes ago, Suggy said:

And the market does just that.  Malibu/Axis at 37%, Nautique at 17% and MC at 16%, the next highest around 7% (I believe Tige..?). More than 1/3 of the boats sold in the US are a Malibu/Axis.  Malibu/Axis outsells their next highest competitor by more double. Let that sink in. "The truth is on the water."

Where did you read that?? Financial info certainly doesn’t support that, unless they are now also including Cobalt in those figures........ or MC is absolutely killing it in Canada.

reported unit volumes for last 5 quarters (all of 2018 plus 1st quarter 2019)

Malibu- 3844 

Axis- 1149

MasterCraft- 3916

 

I don’t think much has changed on a percentage basis. Malibu+Axis, combined,  is still killing it at around 32%,  MC seems to be hovering around 23-24% the last couple years, and both companies seem to be maintaining fairly healthy dealer inventory levels.

SSI is the research company that gave Malibu the US market share info in years past, and is also the same company that gives MC its US market share data. I haven’t seen anything recently shared in Malibu’s financials, but MC includes the SSI results in its current investor presentations. It has both Bu and MC at 22%, Axis at 10% (Bu+axis 32%). 

No doubt that Malibu is #1 in sales, but I think your numbers are stretched a wee bit.

 

[IXFE]

Does MC report a breakdown of NXT, XT, and X series when they report volumes?  That would be super interesting to see. I’ve heard anecdotally that NXT and XT are something like 3/4 of the volume. I’d be curious to see NXT vs Axis. 

[Slayer]

Just now, IXFE said:

Does MC report a breakdown of NXT, XT, and X series when they report volumes?  That would be super interesting to see. I’ve heard anecdotally that NXT and XT are something like 3/4 of the volume. I’d be curious to see NXT vs Axis. 

That would be interesting to see, @IXFE.  

[TenTwentyOne]

20 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Does MC report a breakdown of NXT, XT, and X series when they report volumes?  That would be super interesting to see. I’ve heard anecdotally that NXT and XT are something like 3/4 of the volume. I’d be curious to see NXT vs Axis. 

They don’t list it, but I would also be interested to see. For what it’s worth, the VP of sales was at the NYC boat show and I talked with him for quite a while, picking his brain about such things. A couple of which sorta answered some things I was curious about....

North America accounts for more than 94% of their sales (I was surprised. I figured exports would have been a little higher). And the “global NXT” was a fail.

nxt’s are selling “ok”, but are only about 300 a year.

prostars are less than 100 per year.

xt23 is the best seller, except for last year, with over 400 orders on the XStar.

 

but to best answer your question based on my general convo with him, the XTs are the big movers for them, but the NXTs are not so much.

[billjames]

21 minutes ago, inlandlaker said:

That would be interesting to see, @IXFE.  

Just read their last Annual report and the transcript of their annual call and did not find any volume specific information related to NXT vs XT, vs X. However, if the information would be material, they should have to disclose it. The notion of "material" is somewhat subjective, but if NXT is 3/4 of their volume, I would bet this is material from an investor point of view vis a vis Mastercraft speaking point about luxury brand and such. Moreover, with a unit price at $87,000 for Mastercraft for the last fiscal year, there is no way a $50,000 retail price boat can be 3/4 of their Mastercraft boat, even if nobody order a bare bone NXT. So it is improbable that NXT is 3/4 of their Mastercraft sales.

Side note on their new boat brand AVIARA from their last call:

www.aviaraboats.com

"Continuing our discussion on product development, we are excited to share more details regarding the new brand start-up we mentioned on our last earnings call. At the Miami International Boat Show in February 2019, MasterCraft Boat Holdings will be unveiling the first model of a new brand name, AVIARA, spelled A-V-I-A-R-A. AVIARA will be a series of large recreational day boats ultimately ranging from 32 to 40 feet. The 32-foot model will be available for consumer delivery starting in July of 2019, with additional models to be introduced in the future. To be very clear, AVIARA is not a performance sport boat nor is it an offshore fishing boat. AVIARA will be positioned as the preeminent brand serving the large recreational day boat segment, combining European styling with American layout and engineering. This combination of modern luxury with progressive styling will establish AVIARA as the new standard for quality, precision and design in the large rec boat day category. The concept of the AVIARA brand was born from a carefully crafted strategy to fill the white space in the MasterCraft Boat Holdings portfolio with the goal of retaining existing customers and capturing new customers as their boating preferences evolve over time. Given this, AVIARA will be distributed through a new network of dealerships completely separate from our core MasterCraft dealers, with the capability of supporting and selling larger and more complex models of boats. More information on this will be provided at a later time. All our AVIARA models were designed and will be manufactured at our award-winning facility in Vonore, Tennessee, which manufactures all of our MasterCraft boats. AVIARA owners can expect the same level of outstanding quality, reliability and performance that is synonymous with the MasterCraft brand. More information will be posted as it is made available to the AVIARA brand website, which is MASTERCRAFT BOAT HOLDINGS, INC. FQ1 2019 EARNINGS CALL | NOV 08, 2018 "

[TenTwentyOne]

Not so sure the Aviara thing is going to do them any favors...... 

[Slayer]

10 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Not so sure the Aviara thing is going to do them any favors...... 

Didn't MC try something like this with a larger boat under the Mastercraft nameplate that was a colossal failure?   I can't recall the name, but it was a large boat.  

[TenTwentyOne]

2 minutes ago, inlandlaker said:

Didn't MC try something like this with a larger boat under the Mastercraft nameplate that was a colossal failure?   I can't recall the name, but it was a large boat.  

Ya, the MC 300.

It was a very expensive mini yacht. For some reason they didn’t offer it in the US (probably because the economy was in the crapper at the time, and nobody was buying a $500k mini yacht that was only a 31 footer.) Most of them went to Dubai.

def a fail.

[Slayer]

2 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Ya, the MC 300.

It was a very expensive mini yacht. For some reason they didn’t offer it in the US (probably because the economy was in the crapper at the time, and nobody was buying a $500k mini yacht that was only a 31 footer.) Most of them went to Dubai.

def a fail.

Yes....that's right....the MC 300!  That thing lacked so much of what a boat like that should have.  

[pauley71]

42 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Not so sure the Aviara thing is going to do them any favors...... 

This seems to be a market indicator .. when manufacturers think they are killing it and can't lose.  Then everything crumbles.  

[REHinH20]

30 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Ya, the MC 300.

It was a very expensive mini yacht. For some reason they didn’t offer it in the US (probably because the economy was in the crapper at the time, and nobody was buying a $500k mini yacht that was only a 31 footer.) Most of them went to Dubai.

def a fail.

And this one could be yours...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009/mastercraft-300-3153885/

[Raimie]

44 minutes ago, REHinH20 said:

And this one could be yours...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009/mastercraft-300-3153885/

I found it interesting that boat has bow thrusters. Completely unnecessary on a twin engine 30' boat...until I looked at the controls a second time. There appears to be combined shift/throttle controls instead of separate so maybe it does help. Still MC was using bow thrusters in 2009... but they opted to go for dock star on the wakeboats. Just found it interesting is all...  

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

They don’t list it, but I would also be interested to see. For what it’s worth, the VP of sales was at the NYC boat show and I talked with him for quite a while, picking his brain about such things. A couple of which sorta answered some things I was curious about....

North America accounts for more than 94% of their sales (I was surprised. I figured exports would have been a little higher). And the “global NXT” was a fail.

nxt’s are selling “ok”, but are only about 300 a year.

prostars are less than 100 per year.

xt23 is the best seller, except for last year, with over 400 orders on the XStar.

 

but to best answer your question based on my general convo with him, the XTs are the big movers for them, but the NXTs are not so much.

That matches my observation much more than what I posted (the bit about NXT being fairly low volume). I suppose 3/4’s of the volume could still be NXT / XT with the bulk in the XT line.

Wow! 400 X-Stars seems like a great result for them!  

Edited February 4, 2019 by IXFE

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, billjames said:

The notion of "material" is somewhat subjective, but if NXT is 3/4 of their volume, I would bet this is material from an investor point of view vis a vis Mastercraft speaking point about luxury brand and such. Moreover, with a unit price at $87,000 for Mastercraft for the last fiscal year, there is no way a $50,000 retail price boat can be 3/4 of their Mastercraft boat, even if nobody order a bare bone NXT. So it is improbable that NXT is 3/4 of their Mastercraft sales.

Go back and read what I wrote... I was referring to NXT / XT being 3/4’s of volume. The implication being they’re not selling a lot of X series. 

Again, don’t know if that’s true but it’s something I heard. 

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, REHinH20 said:

And this one could be yours...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009/mastercraft-300-3153885/

Basically the price of a new M235!

Stick a suck-gate on that thing and be done!!

[billjames]

16 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Go back and read what I wrote... I was referring to NXT / XT being 3/4’s of volume. The implication being they’re not selling a lot of X series. 

Again, don’t know if that’s true but it’s something I heard. 

My bad,

Harder to decipher from their financial results. Their average price got a huge bump from 17 to 18 6.10% compare to the precedent 3 years average price increase of 2.12%. I do not know if this is the result of more X sold or more options on the XT or a bit of both. According to the call comments, this is due to selling the bigger new boats "XStar, X24, XT25", Terry D. McNew. Unfortunately, you have both X and XT in the answer so not helpful :).

[CJAY]

I'm not sure it's breaking news that the 25lsv surfs better than the G23.  I've never heard anyone say a G surfs better than one, including my friends that own Gs.  Now wake board wake wise the G is much better, but the 25lsv is pretty much made for surfing vs the G being more made for wake boarding, but does have a very good surf wave.  I'd compare all the Gs I've been on to the 23LSV surf wave wise

[TenTwentyOne]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

That matches my observation much more than what I posted (the bit about NXT being fairly low volume). I suppose 3/4’s of the volume could still be NXT / XT with the bulk in the XT line.

Wow! 400 X-Stars seems like a great result for them!  

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if that is fairly close to correct. NXT is probably only 10-15%, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if XT series is 50-60%, and X series is 25-35%. Customers still like the traditional bow, and the XTs are a little cheaper, without giving up on the materials and finishes used in the X series.

youd know better than me, but It seems similar to how more Malibu customers flock to the LSV series.

Id love to say the XStar sold great because it’s just that awesome of a boat......... but id be blowing smoke up your butt 

They did do an awesome job with the boat, but they had a huge group of people that were waiting and waiting for the redesign that everyone was asking for, and the rest of the X series was in dire need of an update. Basically, anyone who was in the market for a X23, or an XStar, bought an XStar. With the launch of the X24 and X22, I’m sure the XStar numbers will be quite a bit lower this year.

[kerpluxal]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

Basically the price of a new M235!

Stick a suck-gate on that thing and be done!!

I don't think you would need a suck gate  should be able to surf both sides at the same time .. any report on the wakeboard wake? 

I keep saying... If I ever go surf only.. I am getting a 30' + yacht and surfing it