New video... 25 LSV vs. G23

[Dfowkes]

Who else is excited to get behind a new 25 LSV? The wave looks great. I pick mine up in 2 weeks 😬

[TallRedRider]

12 minutes ago, Dfowkes said:

Who else is excited to get behind a new 25 LSV? The wave looks great. I pick mine up in 2 weeks 😬

During my test drive the 25 wave was longer on the 25 than my G23.  I think my family is really going to like it.  I think it had less power than the G wave that was very steep, but was plenty enough for my amateur self to have a great time.  @Dfowkes , did you test drive?    RPM's are substantially higher dragging that wedge, which almost certainly translates to more GPH, but I don't care a whole lot about that.  

I did not think the 23 wave was as long.  

[Sparky450]

52 minutes ago, Dfowkes said:

Who else is excited to get behind a new 25 LSV? The wave looks great. I pick mine up in 2 weeks 😬

I got mine last weekend and was going to do breakin this weekend. Who would have thought. RAIN IN CALIFORNIA 😂😂 At least it isn’t ICE!!

Edited February 2, 2019 by Sparky450

[Tjards]

I have spent quite a bit of time on the new 25 and that wave is very impressive.

[67King]

Just a point about the "factory PnP bags."  I would imagine you won't ever see them because they would probably put the boat over the max USCG allowable weight, and they won't be able to sell them that way.

 

Doesn't affect me one way or another.  Not buying a new boat any time soon, and if I had my preference, it'd be a DD (suck at both, but I'd rather ski than surf any day of the week).

[skurfer]

 Sorry couldn't help myself.. 

[The Hulk]

18 minutes ago, skurfer said:

 Sorry couldn't help myself.. 

That water color 😍👌

That Bimini is huge

Edited February 3, 2019 by The Hulk

[IXFE]

Confirmed the following today...

1) All Malibu’s are running 550’s for PnP and using the factory 10.6 mph preset.

2) All MC’s are running factory supplied PnP sacks as well as the factory surf preset.

3) Measurements taken from the boat, not after the fact from the video. 

4) New video dropped today (hmmm... I wonder if there are more). This one should quiet the 23 vs 25 crowd... 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by IXFE

[The Hulk]

So this confirms hardly any difference between the M235 and 25lsv for lots more $$$coin and less boat.. especially since the M is loaded up more from the factory... put a crew or few extra lbs in the 25 and I'm gonna go on a limb and say the 25 would be a lil better than the M.. 

Another win for the 25.. best wave for the money. 

[The Hulk]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:42 PM, TallRedRider said:

I am glad to see this.  I do think it was malibu funded and biased.    But seeing the G and 25 LSV side by side was impressive for sure.  I will show my wife this, and I am sure her forgiveness for getting another new boat will be forthcoming promptly.   

I couldn't help but see the bias when it said the G wave was a full foot shorter in height than the 25 wave.  That is not my experience.  I am most looking forward to the additional length of my 25, compared to my previous G.  In my test drives, the wave was shorter in height on the bu. 

Not bu hating here...my new Malibu is shrink wrapped at the factory just waiting to be shipped, just trying to be objective.  

The G wave looks tall from the water because it's shorter so your perception is it's tall due to the smaller pocket and steeeeeep feel with breaks on at all times. Stretch that same wave height longer and it would appear / feel shorter. Even a taller longer wave would seem less tall than a short steep one

[Tjards]

2 hours ago, skurfer said:

 Sorry couldn't help myself.. 

Gonna pick this apart for a minute. FIrst off speed. 12.5mph on pretty much anything you are gonna get a wave close to that length. Also if you watch the 301 wakesurf video they have additional lead in the boat around 4-500 lbs.

And last but not least they are riding a big phase 5 model x and the rider is around 150lbs maybe soaking wet. If you have ever rode a model x you should know its one of the easiest fastest boards to ride. You can pretty much ride the white wash of the wave haha

Edited February 3, 2019 by Tjards

[skurfer]

You can ride the 2nd and 3rd waves on a hydrofoil. I guess I don't see your point... my post was supposed to be humorous.

Edited February 3, 2019 by skurfer

[Lees23]

10 hours ago, IXFE said:

Confirmed the following today...

1) All Malibu’s are running 550’s for PnP and using the factory 10.6 mph preset.

2) All MC’s are running factory supplied PnP sacks as well as the factory surf preset.

I didn’t realize that MC offered factory supplied PNP bags.

3) Measurements taken from the boat, not after the fact from the video. 

4) New video dropped today (hmmm... I wonder if there are more). This one should quiet the 23 vs 25 crowd... 

 

 

 

[TenTwentyOne]

@Lees23- MC and Bu do the PnP thing differently than each other.

Malibu rates the capacity of their boats without the PnP bags, and offers an option so that you can add your own. They don’t provide the bags with the boat. Any weight you add with PnP subtracts from the capacity in a Bu.

MC offers the option, and rates the capacity of the boat with the bags that are included with the boat. The factory supplied bags are smaller than what most folks will run. Upgraded PnP bags are usually the first mod. Same with Bu. Adding PnP bags is usually the first mod.

[ahopkins22LSV]

20 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

@Lees23- MC and Bu do the PnP thing differently than each other.

Malibu rates the capacity of their boats without the PnP bags, and offers an option so that you can add your own. They don’t provide the bags with the boat. Any weight you add with PnP subtracts from the capacity in a Bu.

MC offers the option, and rates the capacity of the boat with the bags that are included with the boat. The factory supplied bags are smaller than what most folks will run. Upgraded PnP bags are usually the first mod. Same with Bu. Adding PnP bags is usually the first mod.

But with the new Malibu’s it’s becoming more and more rare to run anything other than the suggested bags that the factory has set. Most run the 550’s or 450’s depending on the boat. There is really no need to upgrade to anything bigger now.

Edited February 3, 2019 by ahopkinsVTX

[vanamp]

No matter how "fair" they make these tests the results are still useless.  You can make a long enough wave on any of these boats but best wave shape is subjective.  Skim riders will prefer one wave and surf riders another. 

It's just marketing but I think malibu/axis will always do well in these types of tests since their surf system is either ON or OFF.  Thats also a big disadvantage in the bigger picture of things too. 

[TenTwentyOne]

1 minute ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

But with the new Malibu’s it’s becoming more and more rare to run anything other than the suggested bags that the factory has set. Most run the 550’s or 450’s depending on the boat. There is really no need to upgrade to anything bigger now.

I hear that, but it doesn’t  really change the fact that they are rated and shipped from the factory without the bags. A Malibu that is technically “stock”, does not have PnP bags in it, and a stock MC does have bags, but they are small.

will a new Bu with the new shaped rear tanks even fit anything more than a 550? A 25LSV could only fit a maximum of about 575lbs in the rear compartments based on some quick measurements.

i have no idea on any other model except the 19 25LSV. We just took quick measurements to satisfy the curiousity of my buddy that is looking to upgrade from his 23.

[ahopkins22LSV]

6 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

I hear that, but it doesn’t  really change the fact that they are rated and shipped from the factory without the bags. A Malibu that is technically “stock”, does not have PnP bags in it, and a stock MC does have bags, but they are small.

will a new Bu with the new shaped rear tanks even fit anything more than a 550? A 25LSV could only fit a maximum of about 575lbs in the rear compartments based on some quick measurements.

i have no idea on any other model except the 19 25LSV. We just took quick measurements to satisfy the curiousity of my buddy that is looking to upgrade from his 23.

The whole MXZ line and the whole LSV line have the new L shaped hard tanks and I believe most run 450’s in them. Don’t quote me on that though. The only “wakesetter” that doesn’t is the VTX. 

I understand your point on the posted capacity, but since there are really no legal regulations on it (like MB doesn’t even have a capacity card) I don’t really agree with your point as Malibu supplies the pumps, plumbing and recommends a bag size per model. Most dealers I’ve seen supply the factory suggested bags if you order the PNP option as well. 

[IXFE]

@TenTwentyOne and @ahopkinsVTX 

Sorry, fellas... you are both mistaken... This is the problem with TMC; people post things as fact that simply aren’t true    

Malibu capacity includes recommended PnP. If you go over those weights (ie bigger bags, lead, etc.) only then do you begin to eat into capacity ratings. Malibu doesn’t supply bags for a variety of reasons (e.g. market variability, consumer preference, dealer preference, etc.). Why charge a customer for something as simple as a removable ballast bag when they may change them out anyway? Not everyone wants or needs or even knows what PnP is so why mandate a cost when you don’t have to??

MC, on the other hand, supplies PnP bags from factory but they are only 350 and their subfloor tanks are also smaller.  As stated, everybody swaps them out immediately (ie MC’s don’t even start with a decent setup). Guess what happens when they do that?? You guessed it... the same thing you’re claiming (falsely) about Malibu... the bigger bags now eat into rated capacity.  Kinda ironic, eh?   

So you can’t sit here and and argue Malibu PnP eats into capacity (it doesn’t) and put MC’s on a  pedestal (cuz their PnP actually does when “everybody” upgrades it). 

In the case of the videos... both the Malibu and the MC are running with the ballast setup that is either shipped or recommended from the factory (ie neither cuts into capacity rating). It’s apples to apples! 

Cheers!!

Edited February 3, 2019 by IXFE

[TenTwentyOne]

56 minutes ago, IXFE said:

@TenTwentyOne and @ahopkinsVTX 

Sorry, fellas... you are both mistaken... This is the problem with TMC; people post things as fact that simply aren’t true    

 

Geeze, sorry, @IXFE

Yet, you couldnt at least give us the benefit of the doubt that we might not have realized this changed very recently? I apologize for spreading misinformation that applies only to models that are older than 2018. I didn’t realize they changed the capacities to include recommended PnP now.

Worst part is, I am sure you knew that, and couldn’t have simply said “hey guys, they changed that last year”.

members acting unnecessarily superior over a finite detail is also another “problem with TMC”

 

Your post includes misinformation as well.... but we can just let it slide.... 👍

Edited February 3, 2019 by TenTwentyOne

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

 

Geeze, sorry, @IXFE

Yet, you couldnt at least give us the benefit of the doubt that we might not have realized this changed very recently? I apologize for spreading misinformation that applies only to models that are older than 2018. I didn’t realize they changed the capacities to include recommended PnP now.

Worst part is, I am sure you knew that, and couldn’t have simply said “hey guys, they changed that last year”.

members acting unnecessarily superior over a finite detail is also another “problem with TMC”

 

Your post includes misinformation as well.... but we can just let it slide.... 👍

I actually don’t know when it changed, which is why I didn’t speculate. I suspect it started with the 2017 MXZ, but I’m not sure.

Forgive my frustration, it’s not just that you got the Malibu capacity wrong. The irony of you calling out Malibu for cutting into factory capacity when, in fact, it’s every MC owner doing it.... come on, man.

Again, sorry for the attitude.  I just get so tired of all the naysayers attacking Malibu on a Malibu forum with misinformation.

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

I was just saying that it should be considered factory ballast, but that is good to know that it’s included for the capacity plate. 

[TenTwentyOne]

22 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I actually don’t know when it changed, which is why I didn’t speculate. I suspect it started with the 2017 MXZ, but I’m not sure.

Forgive my frustration, it’s not just that you got the Malibu capacity wrong. The irony of you calling out Malibu for cutting into factory capacity when, in fact, it’s every MC owner doing it.... come on, man.

Again, sorry for the attitude.  I just get so tired of all the naysayers attacking Malibu on a Malibu forum with misinformation.

 

I was just going off of what I knew in the past. Based on owners manuals, it changed in 2018.

And I’d think you could recognize the fact that just as many Bu owners are going above the recommended bag sizes, as well as running bow sacks. (I realize you have the model that doesn’t really need extra bow weight)

looking at it objectively, I can understand your frustration that I am even including information in this thread. I’m not a Malibu owner, and currently own the devil brand. That said, I think you may have misread my posts. I didn’t post anything inaccurate (except that Bu changed that capacity method in 2018). I never said anything about MC being better in any regard, or that they were somehow superior with ballast setup. I only stated info that I thought was accurate at the time I posted it. I should have double checked.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TenTwentyOne

[IXFE]

19 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

I was just going off of what I knew in the past. Based on owners manuals, it changed in 2018.

And I’d think you could recognize the fact that just as many Bu owners are going above the recommended bag sizes, as well as running bow sacks. (I realize you have the model that doesn’t really need extra bow weight)

looking at it objectively, I can understand your frustration that I am even including information in this thread. I’m not a Malibu owner, and currently own the devil brand. That said, I think you may have misread my posts. I didn’t post anything inaccurate (except that Bu changed that capacity method in 2018). I never said anything about MC being better in any regard, or that they were somehow superior with ballast setup. I only stated info that I thought was accurate at the time I posted it. I should have double checked.

I was trying to be helpful, and did post accurate info for anyone with a 2017 or older Bu. 

Please take this with all due respect... cuz I do respect you. 

I think it’s cool that you seem to be taking the high road lately. But your last post is essentially imploring me to “assume positive intent” or “give you the benefit of the doubt.”  Honest question... why?  Have you earned that? In this thread or any other??

Look at your first several posts in this thread. It appears to me the only reason you’re in this thread is to discredit or cast a shadow on the videos. You and others feel that’s your job here... to police such topics (e.g. Malibu videos on a Malibu forum). At least it sure comes across that way. 

I didn’t post the videos on MC TeamTalk. I’m not over there rubbing anybody’s nose in them. I’m not posting them to my IG feed with hashtags for all the world to see. I posted ONE (now two) of the six videos in ONE thread for my Malibu buddies to enjoy. I’ve answered everybody’s questions to best of my ability about the videos, the setups, the bags, boat capacities, measurement methods, etc. All from the best sources I have, people who were actually involved. Each time I do, a new nit pick pops up until.... I’m suddenly the bad guy. Now I’m the one apologizing for my attitude and being expected to “assume positive intent.”  

Come on, man... put yourself in my shoes.  I’m all for toning it down, but you (and others) gotta work with me. Deal?

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Please take this with all due respect... cuz I do respect you. 

I think it’s cool that you seem to be taking the high road lately. But your last post is essentially imploring me to “assume positive intent” or “give you the benefit of the doubt.”  Honest question... why?  Have you earned that? In this thread or any other??

Look at your first several posts in this thread. It appears to me the only reason you’re in this thread is to discredit or cast a shadow on the videos. You and others feel that’s your job here... to police such topics (e.g. Malibu videos on a Malibu forum). At least it sure comes across that way. 

I didn’t post the videos on MC TeamTalk. I’m not over there rubbing anybody’s nose in them. I’m not posting them to my IG feed with hashtags for all the world to see. I posted ONE (now two) of the six videos in ONE thread for my Malibu buddies to enjoy. I’ve answered everybody’s questions to best of my ability about the videos, the setups, the bags, boat capacities, measurement methods, etc. All from the best sources I have, people who were actually involved. Each time I do, a new nit pick pops up until.... I’m suddenly the bad guy. Now I’m the one apologizing for my attitude and being expected to “assume positive intent.”  

Come on, man... put yourself in my shoes.  I’m all for toning it down, but you (and others) gotta work with me. Deal?

 

Deal, and totally understand.

Quite honestly, for me, I think it was that after watching all the videos I sort of felt mildly insulted because of my own personal observations on all of the boats (with the exception of the MXZ22). I have been behind all of them, and many of them very frequently. I don’t have any negative personal observations on Malibu waves, nor have I ever posted anything on TMC that would suggest I did. I very much like the Malibu waves I have been on. I just haven’t had personal experience that would suggest they were 4x better. The videos show the other waves being of very poor quality in comparison, and I just felt that was a bit of a stretch, which ruined the validity of the videos for me (Especially when comparing the stats of the non-Bu boats to each other). That was the reasoning for my first 2 posts in the thread.

either way, I get where you are coming from. I’d feel the same if roles were reversed and this was happening on TT (Or PN for that matter).