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PCBoater

High Altitude Power options

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PCBoater

Family is going from a go fast boat to a wakeboard/ surf boat. We have narrowed it down to either the 23/ 25 LSV or an 24” MXZ . We live in Utah and will run the boat between Utah and Austin TX (Lake Travis). 1. Been looking at a couple of Supercharged boats: any issues with on older Supercharged motors 14’ /15’ ? 2.) is the 450 enough power at altitude with the right prop?  I see the torque curve on the 410 vs the 450 is roughly the same up to 3800 rpms. Thanks ...

Edited by PCBoater
Grammar

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SCMike

FWIW - I ran my 2018 23LSV in Lake Tahoe last summer, pretty much all week with 8-12 people, Full Stock Ballast, and 550pnp bags in the rear.  With that many people, we had to have a few sit in the bow, but we had no problem getting to surf and wakeboard speed.  The more weight we had up front the better (cleaner wave when surfing, and easier to get up to speed).  I run a 2249 prop.

The 450 on paper doesn’t seem that impressive, but it really is a beast when you put it to the test.

 IMO - The 450 should be fine for most occasions. 

 

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RyanB

I have a '14 LSV with the 450.  It is fine at our "lower elevations" (between 3600' at Powell - 5000' local).  But I am not happy with it at elevation.  Even with 300 pounds of lead, and people in the bow, I can't run full ballast when I am at 7000', and it gets worse the higher I go.

My next boat will have forced induction.

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Pra4sno
On 12/27/2018 at 8:05 PM, RyanB said:

I have a '14 LSV with the 450.  It is fine at our "lower elevations" (between 3600' at Powell - 5000' local).  But I am not happy with it at elevation.  Even with 300 pounds of lead, and people in the bow, I can't run full ballast when I am at 7000', and it gets worse the higher I go.

My next boat will have forced induction.

@RyanB you tow to Powell?  

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RyanB
1 hour ago, Pra4sno said:

@RyanB you tow to Powell?  

We tow out there 5-6 times per year. 

Edited by RyanB

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Pra4sno
9 hours ago, RyanB said:

We tow out there 5-6 times per year. 

I've been curious about this, how do people clear ballast tanks when coming back?  Hot water, chemicals?  

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Cole2001

Another thing to take into consideration if looking at used is the transmission ratio. A 1.5/1 will be a lot worse than a 1.7/1 or 2:1

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RyanB
9 hours ago, Pra4sno said:

I've been curious about this, how do people clear ballast tanks when coming back?  Hot water, chemicals?  

You can get decontaminated at Powell but Colorado doesn’t honor it so you would just need decontamination again when you get home. 

I skip having it done there and just go to CPW when I get home. 

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Pra4sno
1 hour ago, RyanB said:

You can get decontaminated at Powell but Colorado doesn’t honor it so you would just need decontamination again when you get home. 

I skip having it done there and just go to CPW when I get home. 

Got it, Im not planning to head there, just interested.  Was surprised by the inspectors cracking down so hard at horsetooth last year.  My entry band was broken in storage and they had me decon, but just did the motor.  Not sure how they process ballast tanks and livewells but imagine it's the same way.  

I saw the new fees this year for registration and am glad they are finally finding a way to get funding.  

Edited by Pra4sno

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RyanB
19 minutes ago, Pra4sno said:

Got it, Im not planning to head there, just interested.  Was surprised by the inspectors cracking down so hard at horsetooth last year.  My entry band was broken in storage and they had me decon, but just did the motor.  Not sure how they process ballast tanks and livewells but imagine it's the same way.  

I saw the new fees this year for registration and am glad they are finally finding a way to get funding.  

I have such mixed emotions on the Colorado program.  But the bottom line is that so far they have worked to keep the lakes quagga/zebra free.

State law is that any boat that doesn't have an intact tag goes through full decontamination.  And your story of that not happening (leaving your ballast tanks) shows to me that it is only a matter of time before our system fails.  Sadly, the honor system will not keep any of the lakes clean.

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Chappy
On 12/27/2018 at 4:00 PM, PCBoater said:

Family is going from a go fast boat to a wakeboard/ surf boat. We have narrowed it down to either the 23/ 25 LSV or an 24” MXZ . We live in Utah and will run the boat between Utah and Austin TX (Lake Travis). 1. Been looking at a couple of Supercharged boats: any issues with on older Supercharged motors 14’ /15’ ? 2.) is the 450 enough power at altitude with the right prop?  I see the torque curve on the 410 vs the 450 is roughly the same up to 3800 rpms. Thanks ...

What altitude are you talking about?

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PCBoater

Probably 7’000 Ft to 8’000

Edited by PCBoater

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SCMike
1 hour ago, PCBoater said:

Probably 7’000 Ft to 8,000 

If you are spending the majority of your time at those elevations, I’d go with the Super Charged Motor.  

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RyanB
14 minutes ago, SCMike said:

If you are spending the majority of your time at those elevations, I’d go with the Super Charged Motor.  

X 1000

I wish I would have gone that way.

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Pra4sno
On 12/30/2018 at 10:19 AM, RyanB said:

I have such mixed emotions on the Colorado program.  But the bottom line is that so far they have worked to keep the lakes quagga/zebra free.

State law is that any boat that doesn't have an intact tag goes through full decontamination.  And your story of that not happening (leaving your ballast tanks) shows to me that it is only a matter of time before our system fails.  Sadly, the honor system will not keep any of the lakes clean.

I don't have ballast tanks.  They did hot water decon of motor, and checked dry bilge.  I meant that I don't have experience with how they decon ballast tanks, not that they gave me a pass.  I'm happy to do my part, and also know that in awhile we are going to be paying a lot more for water when the systems are clogged by mussels.  

The real concern is what do they do for people with fat sacks, and how they educate their staff on so many different makes and models now that we have boats with so many onboard ballast tanks, pumps, and hoses for mussels to hide in.  

And apologies to OP.  I just slalom and have no issue with power on any dd boat including at Lake Granby.  Surfing poses a different set of issues and I would lean towards forced induction in anything that's already working hard on a pull at sea level.

Edited by Pra4sno

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PCBoater
11 minutes ago, PCBoater said:

Thanks a bunch really appreciate the feedback 

Does anyone have insight on the reliability of the supercharged motors? We have looked at new as well as a few with 200-300 hrs. I saw one older post that mentioned having a leak down test done , I think that goes for any used boat . I’m used to having compression tests etc..

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Pra4sno
Posted (edited)

With so few boats running forced induction I'd look to auto applications with the forced induction motor you're looking for.  Then also look for the supercharger separately for it's reliability.  

 An N/A motor with a bolt on supercharger isnt going to run high hours on stock internals, whereas a motor purpose built for forced induction can run high hours trouble free.  

I'd think forced induction would work well in boats, with the exception of exhaust gas temperatures.  I only have experience with automotive applications, but the exhaust gas temps on a sustained run at boost would be crazy hard to dissipate in my mind.  Some real engineering going in there.  

Edited by Pra4sno

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shawndoggy

@The Hulk had a pretty epic experience with his LSA. It's a great read.

(I wouldn't necessarily view that thread as a strike against the LSA, rather some education on how the cooling works on that motor, and some general due diligence that should be done on the first day of the season with any engine).

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Woodski

@PCBoater:  for NA engine, power drop is ~3% for every 1000' foot of elevation.  Boosting alleviates that issue.

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PCBoater
On 1/2/2019 at 10:33 AM, shawndoggy said:

@The Hulk had a pretty epic experience with his LSA. It's a great read.

(I wouldn't necessarily view that thread as a strike against the LSA, rather some education on how the cooling works on that motor, and some general due diligence that should be done on the first day of the season with any engine).

Wow...I’ve been going back and forth between the LSA and the 450. A lot of folks I have spoken to swear by it, I agree about you due diligence comment. I wonder about the long term durability of the LSA. I haven’t seen too many with hours beyond 350 hrs....Thanks for the post. 

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The Hulk
On 1/4/2019 at 9:29 AM, PCBoater said:

Wow...I’ve been going back and forth between the LSA and the 450. A lot of folks I have spoken to swear by it, I agree about you due diligence comment. I wonder about the long term durability of the LSA. I haven’t seen too many with hours beyond 350 hrs....Thanks for the post. 

How I miss that low end power.... Low rpms...

New gear ratios don't gain much torque just lower rpms on today's newer models so something to consider u may not be getting more prop torque depending on the boats and gear ratios, newer models drop gear ratios when u step up to a SC motor.. so it's more low rpms torque which is always good but def good or a must for altitude, if not altitude then not much gain other than bragging rights and lowered rpms.. 

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