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Mattyb

Diamond VS. Wake Plus 2019 23 LSV

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Mattyb

Hey All, first time posting after reading many different threads and posts.  Background first, finally upgrading to a new boat.  I have a 2005 Super Air Nautique that is ready to sell, and will be switching over to a Malibu 23 LSV.  Will either go with a new custom order, or a 2018 that has what I want on it, whichever ends up being a better deal.  My question is this: how much difference will I see between the diamond hull and wake hull?  I like the idea of a diamond hull for the occasional waterskiier, but I have a crossover boat now, and understand what a sacrifice it can be to try and be ok at everything but not great at anything.

Mostly we surf and wakeboard, so that is the priority, but how much difference can the hull make on the exact same boat?  Unfortunatly, I cant get them both on the water to do a comparison.  Wondering if any of you may have had that experience to give a great apples to apples feedback on the two.

 

Thanks much.

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Ronnie

@G Spot

 Can you help here?

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IndyFerg

I recently bought a 2018 T22, which has the wake plus hull and shares the same exact hull with the 22LSV, so not exact but pretty darn similar. I had the same concerns, coming from a 2004 Mobius XLV that had a much more ski-centric hull design. I still tow a fair amount of skiers and was expecting a downgrade. To be clear, I didn’t actually ski behind it on my test drive (it was freezing out), but the wave looked pretty darn flat in the 28-32 mph range. I was actually amazed. It looked smaller than the old boat that had virtually no transom deadrise. I’m sure someone else that has ridden behind both will offer better advice here, but that’s my own $0.02. 

Good luck with the buying experience!

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Mattyb
26 minutes ago, IndyFerg said:

 To be clear, I didn’t actually ski behind it on my test drive (it was freezing out), but the wave looked pretty darn flat in the 28-32 mph range. I was actually amazed. It looked smaller than the old boat that had virtually no transom deadrise. I’m sure someone else that has ridden behind both will offer better advice here, but that’s my own $0.02. 

 

@IndyFerg thanks for the info, I think you are saying that you pull some skiiers behind your new Axis, and they are able to enjoy it?  We only Ski for fun, never in a course, and would be great to know that it will still be doable behind a boat with a big wake hull when someone wants to do that.

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ID AX
1 hour ago, Mattyb said:

Hey All, first time posting after reading many different threads and posts.  Background first, finally upgrading to a new boat.  I have a 2005 Super Air Nautique that is ready to sell, and will be switching over to a Malibu 23 LSV.  Will either go with a new custom order, or a 2018 that has what I want on it, whichever ends up being a better deal.  My question is this: how much difference will I see between the diamond hull and wake hull?  I like the idea of a diamond hull for the occasional waterskiier, but I have a crossover boat now, and understand what a sacrifice it can be to try and be ok at everything but not great at anything.

Mostly we surf and wakeboard, so that is the priority, but how much difference can the hull make on the exact same boat?  Unfortunatly, I cant get them both on the water to do a comparison.  Wondering if any of you may have had that experience to give a great apples to apples feedback on the two.

 

Thanks much.

If you google the difference and include Themalibucrew in the search, you will have way more reading than you may have ever wanted.  Generally you will find no difference between the two hulls.  I had a '15 23lsv w/ diamond hull and I couldn't tell a difference skiing, boarding or surfing.  Honestly, the ski wake wasn't any better than my '14 A22 ski wake, at the same speed.  I don't think you can go wrong with either version.

49 minutes ago, IndyFerg said:

I recently bought a 2018 T22, which has the wake plus hull and shares the same exact hull with the 22LSV, so not exact but pretty darn similar. I had the same concerns, coming from a 2004 Mobius XLV that had a much more ski-centric hull design. I still tow a fair amount of skiers and was expecting a downgrade. To be clear, I didn’t actually ski behind it on my test drive (it was freezing out), but the wave looked pretty darn flat in the 28-32 mph range. I was actually amazed. It looked smaller than the old boat that had virtually no transom deadrise. I’m sure someone else that has ridden behind both will offer better advice here, but that’s my own $0.02. 

Good luck with the buying experience!

I am not sure who told you the T22 and 22lsv were the same hull but that is not the case.  They are close to the same size but listed at different lengths.  T22 is 22' and 22lsv is 21' 11" per malibu specs.  

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IndyFerg
13 minutes ago, ID AX said:

If you google the difference and include Themalibucrew in the search, you will have way more reading than you may have ever wanted.  Generally you will find no difference between the two hulls.  I had a '15 23lsv w/ diamond hull and I couldn't tell a difference skiing, boarding or surfing.  Honestly, the ski wake wasn't any better than my '14 A22 ski wake, at the same speed.  I don't think you can go wrong with either version.

I am not sure who told you the T22 and 22lsv were the same hull but that is not the case.  They are close to the same size but listed at different lengths.  T22 is 22' and 22lsv is 21' 11" per malibu specs.  

When buying the dealer said the 2018 T22 and 2018 22 VLX were the same hull, and the 2019 T22 and 2019 22 LSV were the same. I’ve seen the same 21’ 11” vs 22’ discrepancy between different sets of materials from Axis on just the T22 across their own materials as well. I have a booklet that says 22’ and a website that says 21’ 11”. 

Who knows...either way my overall point was that for a very similar wake plus hull the ski wake seemed very nice!

Also to be clear @Mattyb, I never pulled anyone, it was too cold out. Just looked way flatter than I had anticipated. 

Good suggestion on the search. Read the same materials myself and was surprised to see the only real difference is a reverse chine by the stern!

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Sixer

I've had a VTX in a wake hull and now in a diamond.  I am not chasing buoys, but I ski pretty aggressively in open water at 36mph.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two.  There might be a slight difference, but it's not as noteworthy as one might think.   

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Mattyb

@ID AX Awesome suggestion, thanks for the idea.  Cannot count the number of times I have been looking for information, only to realize its right at my fingertips if I just remember to Google it.

@Sixer sounds like we are in about the same camp, I grew up skiing, and while I much prefer surfing now, I do like to get behind the boat and rip some turns a couple times a year.  Usually just enough to show off for our kids and tweak something to remind me why I like surfing more!

Now the big decision, go with an 18 with low hours, and most of the features I want or dive in deep and custom order a 19 with exactly what I want.  I am torn for sure, but what a great problem to be grappling with!

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G Spot

Being able to slalom occasionally behind my last few 23 LSVs was important for me as well. My 2011 LSV was a decent skier for it's size and I was concerned about the wake when I began exploring the 2018 23 LSV. I considered ordering my 2018 23 LSV with the diamond hull, however my dealer doesn't order any on that hull and I couldn't find anyone with personal experiences. The sigma associated with diamond hull had me a bit concerned on resell so I opted for the wake hull.

Honestly, I think my 2018 23 LSV skis better than my prior boat which is weird given all the added weight on the 2018. I have the surf pipe on my 2018 and feel that helps soften the wake when I'm cutting through. I ordered my 2018 23 LSV with the torque prop (ACME 2249) which put the top speed around 36. After swapping that to the 2277 I was so much happier with the performance.

Like others have said you won't want to take it in the course but you can have lots of fun free skiing while pulling significant speed thru the wake. I hope Malibu continues equipping the LSV line with the pylon. 

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NWBU

At least price out a 2019 the way you would like it, then you can decide if it's worth it to you. We can spend your $ better that way too. A custom build can go a couple ways. You'll either find options you don't need to select on the '19 that partially offset the model year price increase, or you'll start checking all the nice to have boxes and see a lot of scope creep.

You also wouldn't take delivery of the '19 until around April, where you'll take the '18 now with whatever carrying costs you'll have. Sounds like you've already found the other threads talking about differences between the '18 and '19s.

BTW, just noticed your location. I grew up camping on Lake of the Woods, and we still get down there each summer for an extended family camping trip. If that's your base lake, I would think about the engine upgrade for the elevation.

Edited by NWBU

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Nitrousbird

On the big boats, I can't imagine the diamond hull doing much to improve the ski wake.  Just too much weight to really allow it to lift. If anything, I'd fear the perceived (and incorrect) negative some buyers would have for it not being a wake hull on a bigger boat.

Now on something smaller, I would personally go diamond every time if available. 

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Wkerat

I’ve owned both diamond and wake hulls and have friends from beginner to pro level wakeboard and myself am still a tournament slalom skier (have a response txi for that) and a intermediate/advanced wakeboarder.  For 99% of people the difference between the two hulls is nonexistent wakeboarding.  The only time I noticed it was the first time behind my diamond hull boat and that was because I set it up identical to my wake hull, but I like to board on a 85’ line at 24-25 mph and think the hull lifts up more there.  I adjusted the wedge one click and feel it Was as good or better.  Most of my friends never noticed a difference at all and didn’t know the boat had a different hull, but I think I was looking for it.  Skiing wise is where I notice the most and my ski buddies who tried it all agree, but it’s mainly in a  softer wake with less of a through in the 28 off range. For most  people it is negligible, but I truly think the diamond hull makes it a nice recreational ski boat. It’s no response, but it is fun on a calm morning.  Surf wise they are cutting hairs and a little weight alteration can make them almost identical. That being said I felt the diamond hull had a little longer pocket and the wake was a little taller, but both were awesome.

With that I felt the biggest difference was ride quality.  I just felt the diamond hull rode better in Chop and still do.  Our lake gets a lot of cross Chop as the waves bounce off the sides and the diamond hull just cuts it better.  I just got a new 25 (came in this week so now it’s the long wait till summer!), but if I went with a 23 again it would be a diamond hull hands down.

In looking used versus a new custom order if I found what I wanted with low hours at a good price I would go that route and save the depreciation, but it would come down to the value.  I had a friend buy a used 2017 25 last fall. He saved close to $20k from what the original owner paid new and sold it through the dealer this fall for what he paid, plus tax savings on his new boat . Can’t beat that.  

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Mattyb

@NWBU Engine upgrade is a must 100% agree.

Talked to our local dealer, he is hungry.  Going with a new custom order, diamond hull.  Appreciate all the input, tough call to make on such a big purchase!

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