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Smallest feasible tow vehicle???


LarsJensen

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5 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

What you said was (and I quote) " If you get into an accident due to excessive speed or because you were drinking you are covered. "  Clearly, that is not the case.  In fact, it is a pretty standard "out" for the insurer.  Insurance companies work very, VERY hard to find a way to not pay out and certainly a criminal charge gives them that out.  Heck, they'll make $hit up  to not pay out.  And AFAIK, .08 is pretty much the standard; some places are now moving to .05 (or like places in Europe - ZERO!)

 

In the USA that really undercuts the public policy of mandatory liability coverage, which is that there is ALWAYS coverage in the event of an accident.  99% of people are effectively judgment proof after bankruptcy exemptions are taken into consideration.  Public policy weighs VERY strongly in favor of coverage being available even though somebody does something completely reckless and negligent.

How does no coverage for drunk driving help the guy you hit?  Mandatory coverage is there to make sure that the guy you hit gets something.

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In Canada, there is something called "Uninsured Motorist" endorsement that means if the doofus that hits you does not have insurance (or it is invalidated), you are covered.  Of course insurers always try to go after the guilty party, but they will payout nonetheless.  Ever hear of a crash where NEITHER has insurance?  I have - not a pretty picture, regardless of fault.  And speaking of fault, companies usually use what are called "Intercompany Settlement Rules" to arbitrate blame.  Which means you could be legally right but the accident counts against you anyways.  BTDT.

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The way it was explained to me by my insurance guy is that the only time I am not covered is if I were in the act of committing a crime. And not a crime of driving like speeding or overweight, but a crime as in robbing a bank and driving the get away car, or kidnapping, etc. I don't think in the states they can deny you coverage for speeding or DUI etc. I mean, if you have an accident in the rain, they could automatically say you were driving too fast for conditions. I've never heard of anyone being denied coverage for any of these things. The only thing I know that was denied was a friend tried to claim his new sporty bike after throwing it down a race track at 120mph. They said, "no...."

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I've only had one crash in the States and that was someone in Houston who smacked my rental car.  Since I was not at fault, no issue.  Was fully covered by my personal insurance and credit card insurance.  But I would still read over your policy with a magnifying glass.  Like I said, when it comes to liability and payouts, insurers will do everything that they can to invalidate your claim.

 

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It must be winter because we are going down a rabbit hole not related to the topic. 

Last comment in this direction from me. I don’t know or really care what the case is in countries other than the good old US of A, but here your insurance covers you unless there is a specific written policy exclusion. And I haven’t heard of a policy that has an exclusion based upon a manufacturer’s tow rating. 

That said, it is smart to read your policy. 

I still say the best tow vehicle for the OP could be a Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel. 

  • Like 2
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27 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

was that fun?  Seemed like a bunch of stream of consciousness B.S.

29 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Like I said, when it comes to liability and payouts, insurers will do everything that they can to invalidate your claim.

This really isn't true.  Insurers get into BIG trouble for denying coverage in bad faith and as @RyanB points out, the tie goes to the insured, not the insurer.  You can't fix stupid, but you can insure against it.

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They don't need bad faith; they have the upper hand.  Deeper pockets , more lawyers etc.  Like they paid out  my 5 figure house vandalism claim when we were  500 miles away but still left it on OUR record as shared liability because "you did not padlock your gate".  And we knew who did it and they did too. WTH?  While we did ot get rated, next time...

As for DUI - looks like 40 states levy enhanced penalties on drunk driving at .15 or .20 and of course if you get in an accident your coverage cost goes through the roof.  And frankly, I think that if the insurer can prove intention, then you are pooched.  Negligence does not matter. 

I think your Pollyanna approach to insurance  is cute, but naive.

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1 minute ago, Eagleboy99 said:

They don't need bad faith; they have the upper hand.  Deeper pockets , more lawyers etc.  Like they paid out  my 5 figure house vandalism claim when we were  500 miles away but still left it on OUR record as shared liability because "you did not padlock your gate".  And we knew who did it and they did too. WTH?  While we did ot get rated, next time...

As for DUI - looks like 40 states levy enhanced penalties on drunk driving at .15 or .20 and of course if you get in an accident your coverage cost goes through the roof.  And frankly, I think that if the insurer can prove intention, then you are pooched.  Negligence does not matter. 

I think your Pollyanna approach to insurance  is cute, but naive.

If only shawndoggy knew something about law :lol:

 

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2 hours ago, Steve B. said:

My car insurance thru Progressive covers rental vehicles,  towing insurance is thru my boat insurance, but there are several overlaps. But, for an added $10, U-haul will insure and any damage done is completely covered.

In the end, it is so cheap it's silly. No maintenance, new vehicle, road-side assistance, dont have to insure two vehicles, only one vehicle in the driveway.

Steve B.

As I said , I’m jealous , do you use it for chores in double duty or save all that for off season 

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Coverage questions get tricky even when you are looking right at the actual terms of the policy.  They get really tricky talking about them in the abstract, or when you ignore distinctions like whether you are talking about first-party or third-party coverage, or are talking about defense versus indemnity duties of the insurer, or ignore the nuances of a specific state's law or insurance regulations.  

But in the abstract, and in general, auto liability policies in the U.S. are going to cover accidents caused by the negligence of the driver or vehicle owner.  The farther down the line into intentional misconduct, or the conscious disregard for obvious risks, or if the accident falls within a risk that is within a specific policy exclusion, the more likely there will be legitimate grounds to deny coverage, depending on state law and regulations.  

Unwittingly towing slightly over the vehicles limit generally looks a lot like covered negligence unless there is a specific exclusion for towing over the limit.  Towing substantially outside a vehicles limit at unsafe speeds at some point starts to look like recklessness, conscious disregard for severe risks, or intentional misconduct, and can lead to coverage problems, depending on the terms of the policy and that law of any particular state.  

The bottom line is, coverage questions aside, it is generally best to use caution and common sense when towing, and realize that insurance coverage questions are really secondary to the personal consequence that can follow if someone gets severely injured or killed in an auto accident.  No amount of coverage is going to bring a dead loved one back.    

 

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On 12/19/2018 at 1:54 PM, shawndoggy said:

was that fun?  Seemed like a bunch of stream of consciousness B.S.

This really isn't true.  Insurers get into BIG trouble for denying coverage in bad faith and as @RyanB points out, the tie goes to the insured, not the insurer.  You can't fix stupid, but you can insure against it.

Idk anything about Canada, but I agree with SD and would point out that no one looking for money is going to sue you for an intentional act.

 Getting sued for being negligent triggers your insurance company’s duty to defend you and to pay if the negligence is proven. The duty to defend is much more broad than the duty to pay.  The lawyer hired by the insurance company to defend you is on the hook to represent you and will not risk losing his/her law license by arguing that you acted intentionally.  No one raises the idea of the event being intentional in a civil/money lawsuit.

On a parallel but separate track you may get prosecuted by the state for an intentional act but that won’t involve your insurance company.

Edited by Bozboat
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  • 2 weeks later...

Check out a Cayenne S.  Rated for almost 9k towing.  Wheelbase is a little tight, but I towed with it for years - power and braking are outstanding, never felt under-matched on wheelbase.  Sold it and got a Tundra though, not for towing reasons, but needless to say it tows better.

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I tow my 01 sunsetter vlx with tower with an 06 honda pilot awd. Works good. Not the best but good enough. Tongue weight is about 380 to 400 on the single axel trailer and the pilot limit is 350 so it squats the rear a tad. A more stout tow vehicle would be better but i calculate close to 4000 lbs to 4200 is what my boat with trailer gear and fuel weigh. I usally tow 20 min one way. I towed boat home after purchase with an 02 honda odyssey van. Rear was squatted but it did the three hour trip with no issue. If i towed longer distances id rather have a better tow vehicle. 

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4 hours ago, williemon said:

I tow my 01 sunsetter vlx with tower with an 06 honda pilot awd. Works good. Not the best but good enough. Tongue weight is about 380 to 400 on the single axel trailer and the pilot limit is 350 so it squats the rear a tad. A more stout tow vehicle would be better but i calculate close to 4000 lbs to 4200 is what my boat with trailer gear and fuel weigh. I usally tow 20 min one way. I towed boat home after purchase with an 02 honda odyssey van. Rear was squatted but it did the three hour trip with no issue. If i towed longer distances id rather have a better tow vehicle. 

Go to the boat weight thread.  Your calculations are wrong.  Fully lake ready with passengers you are likely over weight every time you tow. 

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