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ahopkinsVTX

Bow Bag or Lead?

Bow Bag or Lead  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Bow Bag or Lead?



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granddaddy55

You’d think until you did it as you can easily put a 25 in each hand or quickly “toss” the 25’s or 35’s quickly from one spot to the other with one or both hands easily, it was quite the relief especially when lifting them to rail height or higher when cleaning and drying the boat, experienced both scenarios this year and 750 in smaller sizes was easier than 500 in 50’s  

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granddaddy55

Remrmber you were asking about moving them a lot and I move them a lot 

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Murphy8166

If anyone is interest in a bow bag or walkway bag - I had a pretty sweet plumbed in one in my 18 with a Johnson reversible pump.  I used the mid ship drain plug and there was room under the boat to run a hose easily thru the stringer area.

 

 

Ballast.jpg

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ahopkinsVTX
11 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

Remrmber you were asking about moving them a lot and I move them a lot 

I understand but now what do I do with 20 bags after we are done surfing?

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eubanks
26 minutes ago, Murphy8166 said:

If anyone is interest in a bow bag or walkway bag - I had a pretty sweet plumbed in one in my 18 with a Johnson reversible pump.  I used the mid ship drain plug and there was room under the boat to run a hose easily thru the stringer area.

That is genius.  Any other pics of the setup?  Where did you put the pump?  I normally stuff 6 50's of Lead Wake in the walkway or tucked up in the bow.  I usually move them over the trailer tires for towing.

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Murphy8166
13 minutes ago, eubanks said:

That is genius.  Any other pics of the setup?  Where did you put the pump?  I normally stuff 6 50's of Lead Wake in the walkway or tucked up in the bow.  I usually move them over the trailer tires for towing.

Pump is mounted on the rear side of the subwoofer box - there is plenty of room.  I have a lot more pic's - let me dig them up.  This is a very easy install and I have a parts list as well.

If you are interested - I can lend a hand.

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Murphy8166

Here is the pump

395B1BE0-4077-480B-8501-582749456C42.png

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ahopkinsVTX
11 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I just don't get the reasoning behind throwing lead weighted bags around in your boat, have them laying around on your seats, moving them front to back when your done riding and hauling all that weight around all the time vs a single sac, either plumbed in or pump over the side that you can fill to the weight needed, then put away when you're done. The new larger pumps (Sumo) fill Before your PnP bags do.

That’s pretty much where my brain is at but I wanted to ask to see if I’m missing anything. 

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hunter77ah
17 minutes ago, Murphy8166 said:

Pump is mounted on the rear side of the subwoofer box - there is plenty of room.  I have a lot more pic's - let me dig them up.  This is a very easy install and I have a parts list as well.

If you are interested - I can lend a hand.

@ahopkinsVTX I did something similar last winter.  It's pretty straightforward and works great.  If you need extra hands, I live closer than @Murphy8166 lol.

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IXFE

I voted bag...

With any boat I want to be able to use the weight, then make it disappear when I’m done. I like cruising with a light boat. I also prefer towing a light boat. 

With a VTX that is used as a ski tug, this is especially important. Make that surf ballast disappear!!

Lead is okay but starts to lose its appeal after about 200-300 lbs. As you and Ronnie already stated, who wants to move that many 50 lb bags around? Or have that much weight permanently there. 

I ran the bow bag in my 23’s for many years. In 2014 I did the pump over the side. That is for the birds!  Do it once, do it right. Dedicated pump with a hidden fitting is the way to go. Lots of ways do it... @Murphy8166‘s install is sick!  I hid the fitting up under the gunnel, just above the cup holders (can’t do that on the new two-piece boats). Johnson pump will suck the bag pancake thin. Then you just detach it, fold it up, and throw it in the locker or under a seat. I honestly never minded this. 

Fly high makes a 1000 lb triange. Sumi makes a 650.  I’ve used both. The 650 is all you need in that VTX. 

49639B73-F6C3-4479-962E-0E4FCF2DC4B8.jpeg

Edited by IXFE

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hunter77ah
10 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I voted bag...

With any boat I want to be able to use the weight, then make it disappear when I’m done. I like cruising with a light boat. I also prefer towing a light boat. 

With a VTX that is used as a ski tug, this is especially important. Make that surf ballast disappear!!

Lead is okay because starts to lose its appeal after about 200-300 lbs. As you and Aaron is stated, who wants to move that many 50 lb bags around? Or have that much weight permanently there. 

I ran the bow bag in my 23’s for many years. In 2014 I did the pump over the side. That is for the birds!  Do it once, do it right. Dedicated pump with a hidden fitting is the way to go. Lots of ways do it... @Murphy8166‘s install is sick!  I hid the fitting up under the gunnel, just above the cup holders (can’t do that on the new two-piece boats). Johnson pump will suck the bag pancake thin. Then you just detach it, fold it up, and throw it in the locker or under a seat. I honestly never minded this. 

Fly high makes a 1000 lb triange. Sumi makes a 650.  I’ve used both. The 650 is all you need in that VTX. 

49639B73-F6C3-4479-962E-0E4FCF2DC4B8.jpeg

I agree on the 650 being enough.  I read somewhere that it actually fills to around 820 lbs.

 

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800855

Edited by hunter77ah
Found the link

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IXFE
3 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

I agree on the 650 being enough.  I read somewhere that it actually fills to around 820 lbs.

 

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800855

Haha, Stevo and I were just talking about that thread on ww.  Knowing that I rarely ran the bag stuffed, as you see in the pic. 

I think that bag would be great in Hop’s VTX

Edited by IXFE

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shawndoggy
59 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Lead is okay but starts to lose its appeal after about 200-300 lbs. As you and Ronnie already stated, who wants to move that many 50 lb bags around? Or have that much weight permanently there. 

There's a real good distinction/point to be made right there.  @ahopkinsVTX how much weight, exactly, do you need?  If it's "just" a few hundred pounds, then the very nice thing about lead is that it stays exactly where you put it.  

I have a plumbed in bow triangle and I don't think I used it once last year.  Not because it doesn't work, but because (a) I don't like to run it super full (too much of a good thing), and when run half full it tends to "waterbed" (slosh around) and all the weight moves to the back of the bag under power (not on the nose like you'd like) but when you chop throttle it does slosh up there and make the nose extra heavy for a sec till the water stabilizes.  

In my case I have three leadwake bags and I think with two more it'd be perfect.

They are heavy, yes, but not that hard for an able bodied person who is getting towed behind the boat to move around.  I have three bags now that are right at the bench seat on the floor while towing and go in the nose when we get to the lake.  Moving them takes about 10 seconds max.  Then I don't think about it at all.  It would take longer to get my triangle sack out and hooked up to the reversible, let alone fill it.

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ahopkinsVTX
6 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

There's a real good distinction/point to be made right there.  @ahopkinsVTX how much weight, exactly, do you need?  If it's "just" a few hundred pounds, then the very nice thing about lead is that it stays exactly where you put it.  

I have a plumbed in bow triangle and I don't think I used it once last year.  Not because it doesn't work, but because (a) I don't like to run it super full (too much of a good thing), and when run half full it tends to "waterbed" (slosh around) and all the weight moves to the back of the bag under power (not on the nose like you'd like) but when you chop throttle it does slosh up there and make the nose extra heavy for a sec till the water stabilizes.  

In my case I have three leadwake bags and I think with two more it'd be perfect.

They are heavy, yes, but not that hard for an able bodied person who is getting towed behind the boat to move around.  I have three bags now that are right at the bench seat on the floor while towing and go in the nose when we get to the lake.  Moving them takes about 10 seconds max.  Then I don't think about it at all.  It would take longer to get my triangle sack out and hooked up to the reversible, let alone fill it.

I ran 300 last year, here is a picture of the bow rise, from a video, not the best. We also max out at about 10.5mph. The wave is quite good I really have nothing to complain about. But I feel like I can maximize it more. And less bow rise for my wife would be nice. Maybe I’m just looking to tinker too much. 

And I agree. 300 pounds in lead isn’t terrible to manage but I still feel like filling a bag would be less because it’s completley gone and put away when we aren’t using it. 

 

AD82EB6B-FD33-4F74-B274-0FDBA4A49AAD.jpeg

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Ronnie

Play with your rear bags levels as well as your wedge setting. You may be surprised how good the wake is if you reduce the weight/wedge a bit. I've gone from Max capacity bags to 550's in my last boat. Not even filling the 550's completely. The bags will shut off in the 23 with the tanks, not sure how your's are setup. You can add a little more to the bags after the hard tanks are full. I don't.

We've all been blindly led over the years to believe that more is always better. I find that not to be necessarily the case all the time. You get that front end down, it'll make a great wave and your surfgates and prop efficiency will be much better along with your fuel burn rate.

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ahopkinsVTX
13 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Play with your rear bags levels as well as your wedge setting. You may be surprised how good the wake is if you reduce the weight/wedge a bit. I've gone from Max capacity bags to 550's in my last boat. Not even filling the 550's completely. The bags will shut off in the 23 with the tanks, not sure how your's are setup. You can add a little more to the bags after the hard tanks are full. I don't.

We've all been blindly led over the years to believe that more is always better. I find that not to be necessarily the case all the time. You get that front end down, it'll make a great wave and your surfgates and prop efficiency will be much better along with your fuel burn rate.

We have, even run no wedge. We have under filled the 550’s too. Still needed at least the 300 in the bow. The vtx is such a short boat that any rear weight pops the bow up in the air. The bow tank just doesn’t have enough weight/leverage to offset the rear weight. 

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dcarl
7 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

 The vtx is such a short boat that any rear weight pops the bow up in the air. The bow tank just doesn’t have enough weight/leverage to offset the rear weight. 

I agree 100% the bow is so high when surfing on my VTX that my wife has to stand up to see over it.  It looks like there's a little room around the front tank for some lead but there know other place to put it so I am leaning towards a bag.  I was considering one of these bags https://www.wakemakers.com/eight-3-telescope-u-shape-bow-ballast-bag-500.html
I don't think I would need more than 500lbs and that way one person could still sit up there.

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granddaddy55
4 hours ago, eubanks said:

That is genius.  Any other pics of the setup?  Where did you put the pump?  I normally stuff 6 50's of Lead Wake in the walkway or tucked up in the bow.  I usually move them over the trailer tires for towing.

I try to keep 250-275 over tires in each side of cabin , and the extra 200 in the bow seems to actually been necessary for better towing than it was when I had nothing , actually I forgot I’m 700 lead not 750

Edited by granddaddy55

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ahopkinsVTX
35 minutes ago, dcarl said:

I agree 100% the bow is so high when surfing on my VTX that my wife has to stand up to see over it.  It looks like there's a little room around the front tank for some lead but there know other place to put it so I am leaning towards a bag.  I was considering one of these bags https://www.wakemakers.com/eight-3-telescope-u-shape-bow-ballast-bag-500.html
I don't think I would need more than 500lbs and that way one person could still sit up there.

Yeah if I go bag I’m not sure which one yet. Probably the sumo 650, not sure how the one you linked would fit or how a person would still be able to sit up there. 

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granddaddy55
24 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Yeah if I go bag I’m not sure which one yet. Probably the sumo 650, not sure how the one you linked would fit or how a person would still be able to sit up there. 

You lose your bow unless you want them sitting on that, with lead  heavy on each side cushion you still have room for two backwards facing adults or one facing forward in middle and when you have only bow bag and no lead, you have no leveling or listing capability other than rear locker sacs cause if you don’t have a crew a bow bag doesn’t allow for  listing or leveling. Lead as like having crew of 4 additional 175 lb shredders and telling them where to sit and they don’t get a turn or a choice.  it’s just me snd wife 97% of time , so lead allows us to customize , if we startup our slalom next year , we have a little much but not really as 500 in bow and no sac fill anywhere else and the additional 200 in cabin to offset as a big 3rd person we can split up and level the boat may work, we definetly needed to try nose weight asvwe abandoned slalom early cause of the mean whack and jump it was giving me when I crossed the weight with no weight in boat and non in bow when we first got the boat, so my nose needs to go down and my stern needs to rise 

Edited by granddaddy55

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blk93jeepzj

So you have 300 in lead in the front, correct?  Leave what you currently have, probably helps keep the bow down a bit for skiing as well. 

Why not add the straightline  275 to the bow?  Can fill on the center of the bow cushions and someone can sit on either side if they want to. 

You could remove some lead as needed to get you close to the 500 that you want.

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kerpluxal

Put the 1100 under seat

IMG_20180421_192846963_zpsklk8ppsl.jpg

IMG_20180421_161721149_zpsgkrqlrcw.jpg

Front seat is still usable when not full.. 600 lbs max before seat rises.. if no one sits in front then I add more water.. seat rises with and I get 1000 pounds when full

Edited by kerpluxal

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ahopkinsVTX
23 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

You lose your bow unless you want them sitting on that, with lead  heavy on each side cushion you still have room for two backwards facing adults or one facing forward in middle and when you have only bow bag and no lead, you have no leveling or listing capability other than rear locker sacs cause if you don’t have a crew a bow bag doesn’t allow for  listing or leveling. Lead as like having crew of 4 additional 175 lb shredders and telling them where to sit and they don’t get a turn or a choice.  it’s just me snd wife 97% of time , so lead allows us to customize 

I’m aware that a bow bag is going to eliminate seating up there. As I said before, like 3 times, we don’t use our bow much for seating. My question to dcarl was how he thinks that bag is going to fit and allow someone to sit up there. As I also said earlier, I’m not willing to leave 4-500 pounds of lead in the bow so still looking for actual suggestions on what to do with it while not surfing. 

14 minutes ago, blk93jeepzj said:

So you have 300 in lead in the front, correct?  Leave what you currently have, probably helps keep the bow down a bit for skiing as well. 

Why not add the straightline  275 to the bow?  Can fill on the center of the bow cushions and someone can sit on either side if they want to. 

You could remove some lead as needed to get you close to the 500 that you want.

I only have 150. I was able to use an additional 150 last summer. I was thinking of getting a ronix 400 bag so then maybe people could sit in the corners, but again we don’t sit up there and I don’t think there would be enough space anyway. 

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ahopkinsVTX
16 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

Put the 1100 under seat

IMG_20180421_192846963_zpsklk8ppsl.jpg

IMG_20180421_161721149_zpsgkrqlrcw.jpg

Front seat is still usable when not full.. 600 lbs max before seat rises.. if no one sits in front then I add more water.. seat rises with and I get 1000 pounds when full

No storage under the bow seats with the bow tank. 

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