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Fish209

Better Surf Wave? 06'-09' Wakesetter VLX vs LSV / $4K Go Surf Assist vs $300 Wake Shaper (Mission Delta)

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Fish209

I'm planning on getting a Wakesetter and looking at LSV's and VLX's. I'm also going to be getting either a wake shaper like the Mission Delta or possibly the Go Surf Assist Automated Surf Tab System.

 

1.) How much better is the surf wave on a 2006-2009 Wakesetter LSV (23 feet) vs a 2006-2009 VLX (21 feet)?

 

2.) How much better is the surf wave on one of the above Wakesetter boats with a $4,000 Go Surf Assist vs one of the popular Wake Shapers in the $300 range (like a Mission Delta)?

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jwl019

The Nauticurl worked great on my 2010 VLX.

I did see this though and curious to see what they are offering this year:

 

Screenshot_20181111-193550_Chrome.jpg

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Kojak

I used Wicked Wakesurf on my 06 23 LSV for one season before upgrading to Go Surf Assist.  GSA was hands down the better. Wave is longer, has more push, and is more defined.

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isellacuras

 Each of the boats you mentioned have different hulls in the year range you mention. 2005-2008 VLX and 09 VLX are different hulls.  LSV got its newer hull in 2008 so keep that in mind while you're shopping. I also use a nauticurl for my 2012 VLX (same hull as 2009) and i have a very respectable wave. I can not justify the $$$$ for gosurf. I have ridden behind LSV's in both generations you mention and i cannot notice a distiguishable difference although the wake snobs out there will say the difference is significant. Any automated system will make things easier to switch sides but you'll have to decide for yourself if it's justifiable. IMHO the difference in wave quality will be negligible.  I vote you buy sparkys boat and be done. 

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racer808

I have Go Surf Assist (granted it's on an MB which is the superior surf boat anyway) & I also have the Nauticurl.  I get a good wave, very pretty, nice curl with the Nauti but I get no where near the height & power the GSA wave gives me.  Worth the 4 grand?  Subjective, but I love the system & after demoing Malibu's & Axis boats I feel very strongly GSA is superior.  If those two boats are your only choice, I'd go with the LSV & slap GSA on in it

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05hammerhead

lb for lb the VLX is better, but if you dont mind adding more weight, the LSV should throw a better wave.  Id think youd need an extra 1000 lbs in an LSV to get same displacement vs a VLX. 

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JWBeav

I have a 2007 23 LSV with custom 975 lb plug-n-play from Wakemakers (which I highly recommend) and use the Nauticurl shaper.  Our wave is awesome and I thought couldn’t be better until I rode on a 2006 with GSA.  Like is mentioned above the GSA wave is bigger, has more push and I think the best part is you can fine tune it for the rider and number of people in the boat.  I am saving for one this spring and would recommend it if you can afford it.  

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kerpluxal

as @racer808 and @Kojak have stated.. the wave is long and pushy... I also have GSA... Justification of the cost for the wave could be looked at different ways.

  1. If you want to perform transfers, you will need an automated system
  2. If you have goofy and regular riders and switch between them oftten, an automated system is easier.
  3. If you want a consistent wave, an automation system is better.
  4. If you don't want to spend $$$$ on new/newer boat but want an automated system GSA is the way to go.

Other non automated systems (nauticurl, waveshaper, your own made, etc.) work great. Issues that I have seen:

  1. Come off sometimes (which is why they are tethered to your boat)
  2. Placement is key, which results non constitent wave .

23 lsv all the way.. will require more weight but a long pushy wave.

I have a hard time convincing myself that I need a new boat for a better wave.. Even the sales people know it will be hard to convince me as they have ridden my wave as well:

20180729_141556_zps0kharkyn.jpg

Edited by kerpluxal

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racer808

Transfers were bought up.  Good point, I didn't think I'd be doing transfers, wasn't a priority & low & behold now I am doing transfers & riding both sides.  Working on switch too, can do toe side switch but heel side switch is very hard for me for some reason.  Next summer, I am hoping to stick a 360 transfer.

Tuning was mentioned, yep you can tune to smaller & way long, or you can make it steep, give up a little length but I can surf 15-20' back.  Riding surf gate boats I struggle to land tricks cause the sweet spot isn't very big, with GSA I can recover from all sorts of tricks. 

Edited by racer808

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racer808
On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:40 PM, kerpluxal said:

 

I have a hard time convincing myself that I need a new boat for a better wave.. Even the sales people know it will be hard to convince me as they have ridden my wave as well

We're in the same boat (no pun intended).  We demoed a lot of boats over the last year & none of them were worth the upgrade aside from comfort & gadgets which I don't really care about.  My wave is every bit as big if not bigger than the G23 but ours is twice as long.  The Axis T23 was the only boat I was seriously consider but my wife just can't stand it.   We were looking into getting 18-19 MB B52 but then I found out MB just went back to the 2011-2014 hull which I already have so really no point in upgrading at all.  I'll probably run this boat into the ground.  

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kerpluxal
5 minutes ago, racer808 said:

We're in the same boat (no pun intended).  We demoed a lot of boats over the last year & none of them were worth the upgrade aside from comfort & gadgets which I don't really care about.  My wave is every bit as big if not bigger than the G23 but ours is twice as long.  The Axis T23 was the only boat I was seriously consider but my wife just can't stand it.   We were looking into getting 18-19 MB B52 but then I found out MB just went back to the 2011-2014 hull which I already have so really no point in upgrading at all.  I'll probably run this boat into the ground.  

Exactly, I am going to upgrade at some point but the only factor is size. I am looking for a bigger boat (24 - 25 ft). As far as a G23 comparison or comparison to any 23 ft. boat, I agree with you way longer and tons more push in a broader zone. Had a G23 owner in my boat and was blown away by the length and size. I honestly believe that the only comparison is with the 25 lsv or 24 mxz... the M235 blows me away and can't compare with it ;) . Now, I do have the boat dialed in and spent time on that (bag placements, how much, slight list, front to back ratios) and that did take some time to get it all figured out as well. 

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Fish209

Thank you all for the great information!!!! You guys have me definitely leaning towards the LSV if I can find one and get to the finish line with the purchase within my budget. With the LSV, I probably won't be able to swing the extra expense of the GSA. Maybe later if I feel it's really needed.

 

Thanks again everyone!!!

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racer808
3 hours ago, Fish209 said:

Thank you all for the great information!!!! You guys have me definitely leaning towards the LSV if I can find one and get to the finish line with the purchase within my budget. With the LSV, I probably won't be able to swing the extra expense of the GSA. Maybe later if I feel it's really needed.

 

Thanks again everyone!!!

It’ll become needed and you’ll wonder how you ever got by without it.  Don’t limit yourself to Malibu.  Supra, MB, new moombas, supreme all throw incredible waves

Edited by racer808

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kerpluxal
7 hours ago, Fish209 said:

Thank you all for the great information!!!! You guys have me definitely leaning towards the LSV if I can find one and get to the finish line with the purchase within my budget. With the LSV, I probably won't be able to swing the extra expense of the GSA. Maybe later if I feel it's really needed.

 

Thanks again everyone!!!

You don't need GSA, you can make a great wave with other systems.. GSA is an upgrade to them in functionality, ease of use, and you do get a better wave.... the platform to start with is more important.. and I would say 23 ft boat at minimum if you have the place to store it.. I produced a great wave with my 21 LX... but not near to what I get from the 23... plus the room... 2 foot don't sound like much but it is a difference between a compact car and a suv inside it.

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racer808

Huge difference in interior room from a 21' to a 23'.  We had a 21' VLX & it was fine with a crew of 3 which I prefer anyway, but after having the 23' I could never go back to a 21 even it's just the wife & I out.  It's true, bigger is better, once you go black you never go back.

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Argonaut

I’m new to wakesurfing and curious to know How to setup for the longest wave...With the 23lsv and gsa, I assume the std ballast and front are full? How much extra in the rear did you add?

lastly, are you using the power wedge and if so , all the way down or?

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jcon44
8 hours ago, Argonaut said:

I’m new to wakesurfing and curious to know How to setup for the longest wave...With the 23lsv and gsa, I assume the std ballast and front are full? How much extra in the rear did you add?

lastly, are you using the power wedge and if so , all the way down or?

I have GSA and fill all the standard ballast plus 900's in the lockers as full as I can get em, plus I have about 300 lbs of lead spread around the boat. This works to produce a pretty good wave when just my wife and I go out but it gets better the more people or weight you add. I set the wedge about two clicks up from all the way down, hope this helps.

Edited by jcon44

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Argonaut

Thank you!

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CLTMalibu08

I have an 08 VLX with mission delta and I can say I am not the least bit disappointed in the wave my boat puts out. I am only around 3500lbs fully weighted too. Both @Infinitysurf and @TimbrSS can vouch for a VLX with some sort of suck gate. Alternatively, I have ridden behind @TimbrSS 07 247 LSV with GSA. It also puts out an incredible wave, and you can do transfers. The length difference does mean a significant amount more weight is needed to create similar displacement. However, that extra seating space sure is nice. 

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bengelking

2009 LSV 21.5 with a homemade surf shaper and about 2,500 lbs of ballast. Wave seriously rivals my neighbors G23. Love it. Speed determines height and depth. 

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kerpluxal
On 11/19/2018 at 12:48 AM, Argonaut said:

I’m new to wakesurfing and curious to know How to setup for the longest wave...With the 23lsv and gsa, I assume the std ballast and front are full? How much extra in the rear did you add?

lastly, are you using the power wedge and if so , all the way down or?

I have 1100s plug in play in rear lockers. 400s under coffin seats, and 1000 in front.  Longer waves require more front ballast (long but not steep) steep waves require less ballast in front (steep but not long). You can use wedge to fine tune this as well (wedge full down = longer wave, as you raise the wedge up in clicks the wave grows in steepness but becomes shorter). 

I use the coffin bags for slight list as I learned that the list will improve the shape of the wave and the lip. Surfide coffin bag = full while non surf side bag = empty.

Wedge placement varies on size of crew.. less people in boat more clicks up on wedge, more people in boat more clicks down on wedge. Sometimes no wedge at all (with a large crew I tend not to use it and I don't use wedge when I ride skim).

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Infinitysurf
On 11/20/2018 at 10:42 AM, CLTMalibu08 said:

I have an 08 VLX with mission delta and I can say I am not the least bit disappointed in the wave my boat puts out. I am only around 3500lbs fully weighted too. Both @Infinitysurf and @TimbrSS can vouch for a VLX with some sort of suck gate. Alternatively, I have ridden behind @TimbrSS 07 247 LSV with GSA. It also puts out an incredible wave, and you can do transfers. The length difference does mean a significant amount more weight is needed to create similar displacement. However, that extra seating space sure is nice. 

@Fish209 I would go with the best boat for the money and stay in your budget since once you spend the coin to buy the boat, there are always 10 other things you want to add to the boat or "need" to do. Not necessarily things you gotta have, but even little things can make the experience more enjoyable and convenient, of course all of them cost some money and/or time and it becomes an addiction, especially if you are a DIY guy like the 3 of us! So this is something to consider when you are looking at the cost of the boat, the main thing IMO is that you want a boat that has had the best possible maintenance since that can make/break you down the road as things age. 

As @CLTMalibu08 said, his 08' VLX puts out an incredibly good wave with the Mission suck gate with his 3500lbs of ballast. I have another friend with a 2013 VLX that also puts out a great wave with similar weight....nice thing about boat being a little smaller is that less ballast is required and altho a larger boat is very nice when it comes to space, and of course you can get a bit of a bigger wave with a larger boat if you are willing to ballast it too the hilt. When it comes to surf wave, the biggest wave is not usually the best, what you wanti s the perfect formation, with enough height, length and push to create a long area to play in and be able to recover from failed tricks...or tricks where you end up near the end of the wave and have to drive your way back forward to set up for the next one. Especially if this is one of your first boats there is not a huge difference in the wave once you get her dialed in right and only a pro is gonna nitpick the differences. If you do not have a large crew much of the time, smaller is easier to store, tow around, clean, etc. Also, its usually a little less fuel to operate a smaller boat

My boat and @TimbrSS are both 24' plus and we both run close to 5000lbs of ballast with about 500lbs being lead bags that you can move around as you see fit depending on the crew size and lake conditions. I use a Nauticurl suck gate on mine and TimbrSS has the GSA. Even tho we all have different hulls (my boat is a 2014 Centurion SV244), the waves are similar and there is very little noticeable difference between the boat when riding the wave as far as size, push and length go since we all like a similar style of wave. Of course all 3 of us spent time dialing in the waves to get the best out of each boat and we are on each others boats every week during the season, so its easy to compare since we are constantly riding each others waves.

The GSA has some great features and when we are on his boat, we do transfers (which I wanna get better at) and of course its super easy to switch sides when you have crew that surfs different sides. Suckgate is not hard to move from side to side and its not hard to get a consistent wave once you know where the best placement for your boat is and neither my Nauticurl or CLTMalibu08's Mission Delta, comes off the boat except on a rare occasion when you don't stick it on there correctly. (FYI....do NOT tether to the boat, tie it too a fender or life jacket so it it does come off, it does not smack into the side of the boat or jerk your tether off the suck-gate from the force of water pressure).

I intend to get GSA at some point, but the price has held me back...something else always comes up that I want to spend money on and its not something you "gotta" have, tho it is very nice. Just saying...don't think you need to add GSA, you will be able to get an excellent wave without it. You can always add it later. Good luck with the search for a boat, you should be able to find some good deals this time of year.

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Argonaut

Following up to my messages above and adding some sample photos for your thoughts :) 

Here are some photos of my 23 lsv with full ballast tanks, 910s in rear full and GSA activated... some are with the power wedge down all the way and some are with it partially up... just myself and 7 year old in boat... any suggestions to make surf area longer? Eg would using less rear ballast while keeping the bow full... give a longer surf area? Or is the wake good now? I assume I wish it to be less steep to learn to get up on? I’m brand new to surfing so I don’t know what will be the easiest to learn on...speed set to 11mph... what’s best to learn on? I’m 5’11” and about 190.

I read several folks above suggested adding more weight to the bow...I would prefer not too but if I have to... is there anyway to slide a PNP up to the bow under the seats even with the bow tank? I’d prefer not to add a bag on top of the bow cushions...

Appreciate all suggestions...

BFCAD93F-A2AF-4991-9292-50A7D67CF6CE.jpeg

CF31FDBF-A649-4D92-941B-C652EFF405FF.jpeg

5DE9B621-0230-48E3-8F7B-A356178430D5.jpeg

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Kojak

@Argonaut

It looks to me like the back of your boat is too deep in the water or your GSA tabs are not set in the right position.  My boat did not like the 910s so I went back to 750s.  Most likely you'll need some bow weight.  With GSA your wave should look like the pics below.  

My setup is as follows:  All hard tanks full, 750s in the rear lockers, 325s underneath the seats on each side, a 650 bow bag filled anywhere between 1/2 to completely full, and sometimes a 325 on the floor.  Speed from 11.2 - 11.4 mph.  Power wedge anywhere from 2-3 or 3-5 clicks up from all the way down.  GSA tabs at the 2 o'clock position for regular and at 3 o'clock for goofy.

Give something like that a try.  It should make a difference.

 

20160726_083953.jpg

20160726_080502.jpg

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Argonaut

Thanks Kojak! Ok the swim platform is several inches under the water... so for a start I will try adding less water into the 910 bags...

I will adjust the GSA tabs and wedge a bit as well... won’t the extra weight/bags just put the swim step under the water again? Is yours under the water with all of the extra ballast?

 

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