01 Sunsetter LXI or 12 Response

[Woodski]

@WoodyBC:  You are choosing between 2 excellent boats.  The wake will be different, some people notice it more than others for a variety of reasons, some are simply more sensitive to wake characteristics than others, so as noted, you really need to ski it personally to tell.  Just from my perspective, I put the priority on the wake therefore I would give the nod to the Response LXI (assumption based on not a TXI or LX) and am willing to sacrifice interior space.  The LXI has a great wake and it will be smaller or softer than a larger / heavier boat.  No regrets and best decision I made, did basically the same thing when I purchased the AWSA tournament approved boat after the first one.  Good luck deciding.

Here is another consideration - speed control and specifically ZO.  First, you will be very surprised at the improved consistency when you add speed control, on the flip side you will also realize properly controlled speed may hurt your scores as there is a very good possibility the hand driving may have been soft.  The reviews on PP SG (Perfect Pass StarGazer) are somewhat mixed, if you have a short setup it can be challenging to have it not overspeed.  The latest software seems to have solved that problem.  Zero Off does offer the most user friendly speed control from the operators point of reference, pretty much pick your setting and forget it as it nails times pretty much every time.  The consistency of speed control will be a huge benefit for your improvement in the course.

And yes, ski lessons are the best investment to improve your buoy count.

If you 'upgrade' to a pure slalom boat and get some lessons, welcome to the buoy addict club, members welcome.  We count buoys not sheep...

[Bozboat]

Ok, confession, no perfect pass on my SSLXI.  This thread is pushing me over the line to at least put it on my XMAS list.

Which one should I install?      We don't run courses.

[asp13]

10 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Ok, confession, no perfect pass on my SSLXI.  This thread is pushing me over the line to at least put it on my XMAS list.

Which one should I install?      We don't run courses.

I don't have PP on my 01 SS lxi either, but I will be getting it installed over the winter. I personally will be getting the PP Wake edition S. I don't have any courses near me and free-ski mostly. I also wakeboard and surf so this looks to be the best of both worlds for me. http://www.perfectpass.com/sites/default/files/Wake Edition S_0.pdf

[WoodyBC]

Looks like I will do the same. Are you guys taking out the speedo gauge to keep the tach with hour meter intact? Or something different...

[justgary]

In my case, the speedo was dead, so I left the tach.  That's what I would have done anyway. 

I find that RPM mode is what I most often use.  We mostly free ski and barefoot, and RPM mode does an excellent job of allowing others to drive acceptably well.  The other modes tend to have speed issues in turns; mainly they want to speed up a lot.  RPM control is fine in turns. 

[asp13]

My speedo is dead as well so thats the one I will be replacing. 

[Eagleboy99]

1 hour ago, WoodyBC said:

Looks like I will do the same. Are you guys taking out the speedo gauge to keep the tach with hour meter intact? Or something different...

My gauge replacement centers around replacing the Tach since that is the one that died.  Of course I will lose the hour meter but that is always available  by reading the BCM.

[UWSkier]

11 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

My gauge replacement centers around replacing the Tach since that is the one that died.  Of course I will lose the hour meter but that is always available  by reading the BCM.

When you install PP, one of the first things it asks you is engine hours so if you replace your tach, you don't lose that functionality.  It's not displayed on the main screen but is visible if you go into system settings view.

If you guys aren't skiing courses and don't often switch between ZO and PP boats, get the Wake Edition S.  It has simple slalom mode which is best for 90% of open water skiers.  Only reason I went with 3-event and Z-box is because I ski behind a ZO boat frequently and wanted the pull to be consistent-ish.

[Eagleboy99]

Yes UWSkier - very true.  I am sticking with PerfectPass Cruise (RPM-based) as I was not keen to drop another 800 smackeroos for a full PP (mine is too old to simply add the gauge).

[Woodski]

@WoodyBC:  I decided to make my own dash, kept both speedos and tach then did a 4-1 function gauge (fuel, oil, water, volts) on left side and PP unit on right side.  I don't recall what your dash pod looks like, the one on mine was simply a bent piece of steel so very easy to make a carbon, aluminum or steel panel and drill holes where I wanted them.

[WoodyBC]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:21 PM, UWSkier said:

When you install PP, one of the first things it asks you is engine hours so if you replace your tach, you don't lose that functionality.  It's not displayed on the main screen but is visible if you go into system settings view.

If you guys aren't skiing courses and don't often switch between ZO and PP boats, get the Wake Edition S.  It has simple slalom mode which is best for 90% of open water skiers.  Only reason I went with 3-event and Z-box is because I ski behind a ZO boat frequently and wanted the pull to be consistent-ish.

Since I hardly ever open water ski, and mostly use our course, would you suggest the PP 3 event WITH the Z box?  Have never had cruise and would like one that is adjustable. Forgive me but I just don’t have experience with any of these. Ideally my future cruise will have settings that I can start with that are forgiving and can be adjusted up as my skills improve. Hope that made sense. I’m descent at 15 off and toyed a bit with 22. I don’t need a huge surprise on my first run clearing the 1ball and get jerked outta my boots. 

 

[edwin]

I'll throw out my $.02 on this one, as I've owned both boats you mention.  The SLXi will not hold you back as the wakes are fantastic for a boat it's size.  It is an incredibly capable ski boat that happens to have a bunch of room too.  Really tough to beat if you need it for more than a slalom boat.  We played with a bunch of different props and dialed in the boat great for our family needs and loved it.

For a dedicated slalom tug, the Response wins hands down in my opinion.  It has a better hole shot, it handles better, it has better wakes, etc.    I prefer a firm pull out of the hole, and a firm pull off the ball when skiing the course.  The Response wasn't hardly working to do either...the SLXi has more weight to pull (regardless of the skier) and it really showed in a lake / course with a short set up.  Response was up to speed and settled well before the 55m entrance.  

Being a just slightly better than average skier, that extra time without drama before entering the course made a very big difference.  I was a full pass better behind my Response and Response Lxi than I was behind my SLXi.  

YMMV...

[Joeprunc]

What @Woodski said.....

On 11/6/2018 at 8:17 PM, Woodski said:

@WoodyBC:  You are choosing between 2 excellent boats.  The wake will be different, some people notice it more than others for a variety of reasons, some are simply more sensitive to wake characteristics than others, so as noted, you really need to ski it personally to tell.  Just from my perspective, I put the priority on the wake therefore I would give the nod to the Response LXI (assumption based on not a TXI or LX) and am willing to sacrifice interior space.  The LXI has a great wake and it will be smaller or softer than a larger / heavier boat.  No regrets and best decision I made, did basically the same thing when I purchased the AWSA tournament approved boat after the first one.  Good luck deciding.

Here is another consideration - speed control and specifically ZO.  First, you will be very surprised at the improved consistency when you add speed control, on the flip side you will also realize properly controlled speed may hurt your scores as there is a very good possibility the hand driving may have been soft.  The reviews on PP SG (Perfect Pass StarGazer) are somewhat mixed, if you have a short setup it can be challenging to have it not overspeed.  The latest software seems to have solved that problem.  Zero Off does offer the most user friendly speed control from the operators point of reference, pretty much pick your setting and forget it as it nails times pretty much every time.  The consistency of speed control will be a huge benefit for your improvement in the course.

And yes, ski lessons are the best investment to improve your buoy count.

If you 'upgrade' to a pure slalom boat and get some lessons, welcome to the buoy addict club, members welcome.  We count buoys not sheep...

 

I'd ski both wakes and decide.  Personally for me skiing the course any little bit helps, more buoys = larger smile.  Skiing at 34 mph behind the two I bet the wake is somewhat comparable, but if you are just starting -15' I'm assuming you are skiing the course at 26 or 28 mph.....the Response wake will be smaller (less boat, less displacement), and should be easier to start running the course.  Either way you go you need to add perfect pass is going to mess you up at first, but then after having the comfort of a good consistent pull will allow you to progress.  I haven't skied behind a SS LXi so I can't compare to the other Malibu's I've skied behind.  

For me the 3 event SG worked well, but came in hot on one end of the course if not driven in/PP engaged properly.  The newer software helped, but still requires some attention while engaging PP.  I upgraded to Zbox this summer and it took me a while to get it dialed, especially at slower speeds.  And the pull with Zbox is much different than SG.  I installed PP in the right most hole in the dash (easiest to adjust while driving)

[UWSkier]

5 hours ago, WoodyBC said:

Since I hardly ever open water ski, and mostly use our course, would you suggest the PP 3 event WITH the Z box?  Have never had cruise and would like one that is adjustable. Forgive me but I just don’t have experience with any of these. Ideally my future cruise will have settings that I can start with that are forgiving and can be adjusted up as my skills improve. Hope that made sense. I’m descent at 15 off and toyed a bit with 22. I don’t need a huge surprise on my first run clearing the 1ball and get jerked outta my boots. 

 

What are your long-term plans?  Ski tournaments?  Rotate boats between ZO and PP?  Or just compete with yourself and try to improve?

I'd go for SG and ZBox all in one fell swoop and just leave the ZBox switched off until you decide you want to play around with it.  I ski with it on and my ski buds all ski with it off.  It's dead easy to toggle it on and off.

You might have to do some tweaking of background settings to get your segment times to be bang-on.  I don't have any experience using it in a course though so others can probably weigh in on this more.

[WoodyBC]

12 hours ago, UWSkier said:

What are your long-term plans?  Ski tournaments?  Rotate boats between ZO and PP?  Or just compete with yourself and try to improve?

I'd go for SG and ZBox all in one fell swoop and just leave the ZBox switched off until you decide you want to play around with it.  I ski with it on and my ski buds all ski with it off.  It's dead easy to toggle it on and off.

You might have to do some tweaking of background settings to get your segment times to be bang-on.  I don't have any experience using it in a course though so others can probably weigh in on this more.

Long term plans are just personal best improvements. I have no plans on any tournaments but who knows. I don't rotate boats, as I've got the only ski boat on my lake. Fortunate to be able to put a course in and keep it there all summer. Although we do remove it for the major holidays due to it turns into a flood light for the moths on tubes. ( What is the attraction.....jeeze). Getting the PP SG with the zbox sounds like a great plan. I didn't know I could turn it off if one of us doesn't like it. 

Decided to keep the SSLXI. It is a great boat, low hours, and in really good shape. I really like what Boz did to his SSLXI. Going to add PP and enjoy it until I'm ready for an interior makeover. Which could be after the 19 season. Although the 12 Response is a great boat, newer, lighter, a little better wake, more powerful etc., I think I would regret getting rid of the SSLXI. It does what I need it to do.

[Eagleboy99]

17 hours ago, Joeprunc said:

I'd ski both wakes and decide.  Personally for me skiing the course any little bit helps, more buoys = larger smile.  Skiing at 34 mph behind the two I bet the wake is somewhat comparable, but if you are just starting -15' I'm assuming you are skiing the course at 26 or 28 mph.....the Response wake will be smaller (less boat, less displacement), and should be easier to start running the course.  Either way you go you need to add perfect pass is going to mess you up at first, but then after having the comfort of a good consistent pull will allow you to progress.  I haven't skied behind a SS LXi so I can't compare to the other Malibu's I've skied behind.  

Bang on!  Although even at 28/30 there is precious little difference between the two and sometimes something like a little bow weight will  fix the LXI.  Pretty hard to go wrong with either.  If you got the SSLXI with Wedge, add a suck gate and it will surf nicely - which is doable with the Response but I've yet to find a suck gate that will work on that hull.  I plan to build my own but it is tricky due to the hull config.

[John I.]

2 hours ago, WoodyBC said:

Long term plans are just personal best improvements. I have no plans on any tournaments but who knows. I don't rotate boats, as I've got the only ski boat on my lake. Fortunate to be able to put a course in and keep it there all summer. Although we do remove it for the major holidays due to it turns into a flood light for the moths on tubes. ( What is the attraction.....jeeze). Getting the PP SG with the zbox sounds like a great plan. I didn't know I could turn it off if one of us doesn't like it. 

Decided to keep the SSLXI. It is a great boat, low hours, and in really good shape. I really like what Boz did to his SSLXI. Going to add PP and enjoy it until I'm ready for an interior makeover. Which could be after the 19 season. Although the 12 Response is a great boat, newer, lighter, a little better wake, more powerful etc., I think I would regret getting rid of the SSLXI. It does what I need it to do.

 

Good decision! (in my biased opinion) 

[tccombs]

my friend has an O1  like yours and it is a great wake.  and a great boat  

I have a o6 response LXI  and i have to say my wake is a tiny bit better than his..  but it is not a huge differance.     and i ride on both quite often..   

My O6  RLXI   is almost the exact wake of the 12 RLXI  I noticed no differance at all. 

 

In my opinion,   If you want more room , then keep your boat.  Also  the   rxli has a lower nose and lower  sides and stern  so it can take on water much easier  when those wake boats go by you..  

So if your primary goal is to compete skiing the course..   then i would switch..   

 

i 

[85 Barefoot]

woody, can you share the link for the 12 response for sale?

[WoodyBC]

3 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

woody, can you share the link for the 12 response for sale?

Just looked for it, appears to have been removed. Don’t know if it was sold or what. 

 

[Pra4sno]

Your lxi is one of the best wakes I've every skied, only bested by a much older American skier that we still get out behind.  I've never skied a response but hear they are fantastic. 

Some of the new gadgets are nice, but nothing perfect pass and a good driver won't compensate for.  Hole shot and race to gate improvement...might just be a call to Acme for a dialed prop.

Old ski tugs rock, and your lxi does more than just ski.  I'd keep it.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Pra4sno